Magick or Magic

[kage no neko]

I don't see anything wrong with using the K. To me, it's just another spelling of it. It's like spelling colour instead of color, though you live in America. No reasoning for it really, but some people do it anyway. Possibly just to be different, but that's their own problem, isn't it?

(I personally prefer someone sticking with the K instead of changing up the whole spelling to be like majik or something. That drives me bonkers for some reason.)  

[Brass Bell Doll]

kage no neko

I personally prefer someone sticking with the K instead of changing up the whole spelling to be like majik or something. That drives me bonkers for some reason.

Do you feel you can explain why it bothers you?  

[oOGarrettOo]

It's always been magic for me. I never saw a reason bother with the k. First of all, if you're having a face to face conversation with someone, who is really going to sit there and reason that you're mentally spelling the word "magick" as you're speaking? I'd rather be sure that they're paying attention to what I'm saying instead of worrying over how I'm spelling a word that essentially means the same thing in the end.

On top of that, I don't think I've ever had another witch ask me "Are you referring to stage magic or witchcraft?" Obviously, if I'm talking about being a witch and performing magic, it's quite obvious which magic I'm referring to.

Besides all that, I don't find any significance in numerology. It's interesting and fun to dabble with once in a while, but adding a k to magic doesn't mean anything to me and just makes the whole thing seem silly to me, so I don't bother.

Magic is magic. Thelema can keep their K. It's more important to them than it is to me.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

oOGarrettOo

On top of that, I don't think I've ever had another witch ask me "Are you referring to stage magic or witchcraft?" Obviously, if I'm talking about being a witch and performing magic, it's quite obvious which magic I'm referring to.

I feel that most of the time you're correct.

I feel it is far more likely that someone would confuse a religious application with a role playing game.

oOGarrettOo

Besides all that, I don't find any significance in numerology.

I feel that's reasonable.

oOGarrettOo

It's interesting and fun to dabble with once in a while, but adding a k to magic doesn't mean anything to me and just makes the whole thing seem silly to me, so I don't bother.

I do not want to misunderstand, but are you saying that numerology is silly?

oOGarrettOo

Magic is magic. Thelema can keep their K. It's more important to them than it is to me.

How about others who also practice numerology? Do you feel we are entitled to it as well?  

[oOGarrettOo]

Brass Bell Doll

oOGarrettOo

It's interesting and fun to dabble with once in a while, but adding a k to magic doesn't mean anything to me and just makes the whole thing seem silly to me, so I don't bother.

I do not want to misunderstand, but are you saying that numerology is silly?

No, I said that to me adding the K to magic is silly.

Brass Bell Doll

oOGarrettOo

Magic is magic. Thelema can keep their K. It's more important to them than it is to me.

How about others who also practice numerology? Do you feel we are entitled to it as well?

And what would their reasoning be? I don't think that "I believe in numerology so I spell magic with a k" is a good reason. Why do they spell it with the k? What is the significance of the k to them and their practice? When is the k necessary and who would understand it's significance?

Many of the people I run into who insist on using the k simply do it because they read it somewhere or someone/thing told them it was a good idea. This is unnecessary. They could use magic and get the same effect. If someone wants to insist that it's because it holds a significant numerological value, then I'll wait patiently for them to explain to me why.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

oOGarrettOo

No, I said that to me adding the K to magic is silly.

I'm not understanding why you feel it is silly, rather than simply different.

oOGarrettOo

And what would their reasoning be? I don't think that "I believe in numerology so I spell magic with a k" is a good reason. Why do they spell it with the k? What is the significance of the k to them and their practice? When is the k necessary and who would understand it's significance?

For myself, I feel the numerological shift from magic to magick speaks to a greater nature.

I feel that mathematics is a universal language, and numbers, patterns and ratios reveal a greater truth about the world around us and the mysteries that we filter out in our daily lives.

In relation to the word Magick.

In the secondary numerological system I use, Magic translates to 30+1+7+9+3 and Magick translates to 30+1+7+9+3+10.
Magic then exists as 50 which is then reduced to 5, Magick translates to 60 which is then reduced to 6.

Both of these include the number ten, which is success, but Magic is a success of grace, where Magick is then a perfection of action.

I feel that since magick is an expression of ourselves as a creator, that it is the action that speaks to the inner nature of that success.

oOGarrettOo

Many of the people I run into who insist on using the k simply do it because they read it somewhere or someone/thing told them it was a good idea. This is unnecessary. They could use magic and get the same effect. If someone wants to insist that it's because it holds a significant numerological value, then I'll wait patiently for them to explain to me why.

If you feel it is unnecessary, but they feel that an author elsewhere's use is good enough for them, why would they feel a need to meet your expectations?  

[oOGarrettOo]

Well there's the difference. You are looking at a word for it's value. I'm looking at the word for it's simple meaning of which I can relate a tangible action to. Your magic is based on math. My magic is based on the core of it, which is the raw energy. Not numbers.

To be perfectly honest with you, I don't give a flying **** what other people think. I don't really want to hear about it either. I have more important things to do than live my life worrying about how other people live their lives. I'd get nothing done if I spent all my time making sure I didn't hurt anyone's feelings.

The fact of the matter is, magick was a word formulated by Crowly and it is used specifically by Thelemites and their faith for a particular reason. If other people want to use it, they just better be ready to explain to each person in passing why they use it.  

[kage no neko]

Brass Bell Doll

kage no neko

I personally prefer someone sticking with the K instead of changing up the whole spelling to be like majik or something. That drives me bonkers for some reason.

Do you feel you can explain why it bothers you?

No idea, just does. Kinda like nails on a chalk board. No real reason for that to grate on nerves, but it does.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

oOGarrettOo

Well there's the difference. You are looking at a word for it's value. I'm looking at the word for it's simple meaning of which I can relate a tangible action to. Your magic is based on math. My magic is based on the core of it, which is the raw energy. Not numbers.

This isn't a fair representation of my path.

My path acknowledges that language can describe truths. Math is a common language, not a fuel for magick.

oOGarrettOo

To be perfectly honest with you, I don't give a flying **** what other people think. I don't really want to hear about it either. I have more important things to do than live my life worrying about how other people live their lives.

If this is a fair statement, why do you invest energy in formulating a position either way, and sharing it?

oOGarrettOo

I'd get nothing done if I spent all my time making sure I didn't hurt anyone's feelings.

It is a sad truth that people will be hurt, but I feel we can minimize the harm done.

oOGarrettOo

The fact of the matter is, magick was a word formulated by Crowly and it is used specifically by Thelemites and their faith for a particular reason. If other people want to use it, they just better be ready to explain to each person in passing why they use it.

If the people do not care what they think, why would they need to explain why they use it?

kage no neko

No idea, just does. Kinda like nails on a chalk board. No real reason for that to grate on nerves, but it does.

Please forgive me if this comes across ungraciously, but there is always a reason that things bother us.

Do you recall when you first noticed it annoyed you?  

[kage no neko]

Brass Bell Doll

Please forgive me if this comes across ungraciously, but there is always a reason that things bother us.

Do you recall when you first noticed it annoyed you?

I don't recall when, just that it always has. I mean, I've been researching and learning about witchcrafty stuff for 7 years. It may've been a while ago I first read it.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

kage no neko

I don't recall when, just that it always has. I mean, I've been researching and learning about witchcrafty stuff for 7 years. It may've been a while ago I first read it.

I see. Are there other things that you find annoy you in a similar way?  

[kage no neko]

Brass Bell Doll

kage no neko

I don't recall when, just that it always has. I mean, I've been researching and learning about witchcrafty stuff for 7 years. It may've been a while ago I first read it.

I see. Are there other things that you find annoy you in a similar way?

Probably, but I can't think of them off the top of my head right now.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

kage no neko

Probably, but I can't think of them off the top of my head right now.

If any come to mind, I would be interested in hearing of them.  

[Ritual at Dusk]

I spell it magick because of numerology reasons and to differentiate between fiction like shooting fireballs and illusionary magic from real magick. Since I desire to become an author, and a lot of my books are going to be about magick, I want people to be able to realize that my books aren't about fantasy and illusion. Also, Aleister Crowley changed the spelling for specifically this reason and many well known witches, Scott Cunninham, Silver Ravenwolf, they all spell it with a "k" and I am sure that they know what they are talking about.  

[ncsweet]

Nightmare Apparition

I spell it magick because of numerology reasons and to differentiate between fiction like shooting fireballs and illusionary magic from real magick. Since I desire to become an author, and a lot of my books are going to be about magick, I want people to be able to realize that my books aren't about fantasy and illusion.

Interestingly enough - I'd associate "magick" with fantasy magic well before I would "magic", as fiction authors are some of the main people who use it (or some other funky spelling) in that context.

Quote:

Also, Aleister Crowley changed the spelling for specifically this reason and many well known witches, Scott Cunninham, Silver Ravenwolf, they all spell it with a "k" and I am sure that they know what they are talking about.

Why did you have to go there? gonk

Cunningham was a 1st degree BTW initiate, who left his coven shortly after initiation, he did not ever finish his initiates training. What he writes about in his books relates specifically to the Standing Stones Tradition which he created. (in his newest book - it's spelled "magic" if it makes any difference)

Ravenwolf is not a good authority on anything - and in most cases definitely does not know what she is talking about. There may be some rare bits of info in her books that are actually worth something, but you have to read through a ton of crap to get to them.

The Problem With Silver Ravenwolf
Tarnished Silver: Why I Don't Recommend Silver Ravenwolf
Why We Despise Silver Ravenwolf