How many pagans actually practice "magick"

[Ishtar Shakti]

True Colours of Destiny

Ishtar Shakti

I believe that magic is any practice of will... this belief generally dictates that everyone practices whether they believe they do or not as they are utilizing will. Unless of course the person lacks freewill and thus is an automaton and thus isn't a person because they aren't alive. Its how I would differentiate a well made servitor from a person.

But what about servitors that are created and are given autonomy and free-will? ninja

How do you give something free will? How does something which inherently you program and lay the basic frame work for have any sort of autonomy?
It follows the definitions and develops the personality you instill in it as your mind shapes the spell. While you can create a good facimile of free will I always find something lacking. I can give it some autonomy... as I can give it a frame work to work within to make decisions but inevitably I am shaping all of its actions whether consciously or subconsciously through the original programming.  

[Ishtar Shakti]

TeaDidikai

I dipped my toes into magick when I was younger. Still hang out with my OTO friends.
That said, I'm not pagan. ~shrugs~

As for magic, I do so rarely and only when appropriate for someone in my position to do so.

What would you consider appropriate and what do you consider your position?  

[Ishtar Shakti]

Recursive Paradox

Channeling may or may not qualify as magic (not magick or the less known maedjeck) but that is the primary thing I use.

Usually with Essences but occasionally with Aspects.

What would you define as Essences and what would you define as Aspects.
There are also two different uses for the word channeling... are you talking about a specific entity/being or energy?  

[Ishtar Shakti]

pashSANITY

lol this is like a trick question for me xD.

My beliefs are loosely Pagan based but I'm not sure if I'd consider myself Pagan. I'm a shaman, and being so really dips in to Pagan and Native American beliefs. As far as magic goes, yes I do rituals and different forms of meditations that I use for similar things as Wiccans use magick for (i.e. blessing, warding away curses, etc..) but at the same time most of my spiritual work is aimed towards the spiritual world. Communicating with and guiding lost spirits, spirit quests with my animal guides, and so forth.

So I'm not sure, would you call that magick too?

I would... maybe I should have made a thread asking people for there definitions of what magic is.

I've always been on the fence concerning whether there should be a different term for sensing/reading spiritual things and actively using your will. I wouldn't necessarily equate reading spirits as magic but I believe its an intrinsic part of practicing. Though of course many people take information in and are illequiped to decipher it... so hmmm
I consider most influence magic, meaning trying to watch over spirits etc.  

[TeaDidikai]

Ishtar Shakti

What would you consider appropriate

That which is expected of me.

Quote:

and what do you consider your position?

Faulty question. My position is assigned and not subject to my personal opinion.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Ishtar Shakti

In anycase what I gathered is that you like to practice conscientious well informed well structured spells? Rather then slap dash watch the world crash?

I don't like to do it at all.
I hate it as a I hate Hell.
However, when I am left with few apparent options, then great care is the order of the day.

Quote:

Would you still consider other implementations of will practice? They are still muddying the waters soo to speak... but then I consider all movement a form of practice so I have a few issues with the definition of what you should consider maic and what you shouldn't.

Magic is word I have little love for. It exists to separate popularly understood sciences from the more occult(read hidden) ones. It is all the same, causal reaction is what it is, regardless of how much or how little we understand it in any set of circumstances.

Quote:

I was more looking for a personal opinion census of who actively pursued practice vs. those who considered themselves pagan in a purely religious sort of way.

I wanted to give that as a caveat.
As far as Pagan, as much as I am like in character to the Romans, I reject their labellings of the faith I practice, which predates their Empire and Republic in a region that has long boasted great empires.
Also, the techniques I have learned are largely unrelated to my actual religious beliefs.

It is not a topic I discuss much other than to encourage people to study more developed sciences/causal procedures. As I established, I have little good to say about most practices, and chose not to discuss it much. Lambasting someone for doing something I don't approve of rarely nets the results I desire. I prefer to(read: believe I can achieve my goals better by) sit(ting) back and play(ing) damage control.  

[Ishtar Shakti]

TeaDidikai

Ishtar Shakti

What would you consider appropriate

That which is expected of me.

Quote:

and what do you consider your position?

Faulty question. My position is assigned and not subject to my personal opinion.

You still interpret what your position is and internalize it even if its coming from an outside source. Your position I would assume would be some sort of subservience to whom ever assigned you your position.  

[Ishtar Shakti]

Fiddlers Green

Ishtar Shakti

In anycase what I gathered is that you like to practice conscientious well informed well structured spells? Rather then slap dash watch the world crash?

I don't like to do it at all.
I hate it as a I hate Hell.
However, when I am left with few apparent options, then great care is the order of the day.

Quote:

Would you still consider other implementations of will practice? They are still muddying the waters soo to speak... but then I consider all movement a form of practice so I have a few issues with the definition of what you should consider maic and what you shouldn't.

Magic is word I have little love for. It exists to separate popularly understood sciences from the more occult(read hidden) ones. It is all the same, causal reaction is what it is, regardless of how much or how little we understand it in any set of circumstances.

Quote:

I was more looking for a personal opinion census of who actively pursued practice vs. those who considered themselves pagan in a purely religious sort of way.

I wanted to give that as a caveat.
As far as Pagan, as much as I am like in character to the Romans, I reject their labellings of the faith I practice, which predates their Empire and Republic in a region that has long boasted great empires.
Also, the techniques I have learned are largely unrelated to my actual religious beliefs.

It is not a topic I discuss much other than to encourage people to study more developed sciences/causal procedures. As I established, I have little good to say about most practices, and chose not to discuss it much. Lambasting someone for doing something I don't approve of rarely nets the results I desire. I prefer to(read: believe I can achieve my goals better by) sit(ting) back and play(ing) damage control.

So is it more a hatred of the label then the practice?  

[Hel Valraven]

I rarely do magic. I frequently do spiritual exercises but I don't consider them magic. Magic to me, is to want something or to ask for something, like a petition or prayer. I guess I don't I want much.  

[TeaDidikai]

Ishsha

You still interpret what your position is

No, I really don't. I received training from a young age that ensured my personal interpretations are not now and never were the foundation of my understanding. For ******** sake, stop projecting your expectations onto my culture and traditions. It's beginning to border on racism.

Quote:

Your position I would assume would be some sort of subservience to whom ever assigned you your position.

You assume wrong. rolleyes

Your privilege and non-existent understanding of what my role within my tradition is leading you to say some really ignorant s**t.  

[whiporwill-o]

Ishtar Shakti

The accuracy of the phrase "magick" can be debated later

i'm afraid i don't quite understand what you mean by this.

it has been my understanding that "magick" with the 'k' added is specific to aleister crowley's teachings. (had something to do with numerology, i think, but i may be mistaken)

"I found myself at a loss for a name to designate my work, just as H. P. Blavatsky some years earlier. "Theosophy", "Spiritualism", "Occultism", "Mysticism", all involved undesirable connotations.
I chose therefore the name.
"MAGICK"..."
http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/aba/defs.html  

[Ishtar Shakti]

Hel Valraven

I rarely do magic. I frequently do spiritual exercises but I don't consider them magic. Magic to me, is to want something or to ask for something, like a petition or prayer. I guess I don't I want much.

There isn't much to want in the world. What type of spiritual exercises do you do?  

[Ishtar Shakti]

whiporwill-o

Ishtar Shakti

The accuracy of the phrase "magick" can be debated later
quote]

i'm afraid i don't quite understand what you mean by this.

it has been my understanding that "magick" with the 'k' added is specific to aleister crowley's teachings. (had something to do with numerology, i think, but i may be mistaken)

"I found myself at a loss for a name to designate my work, just as H. P. Blavatsky some years earlier. "Theosophy", "Spiritualism", "Occultism", "Mysticism", all involved undesirable connotations.
I chose therefore the name.
"MAGICK"..."
http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/aba/defs.html

http://paganwiccan.about.com/b/2008/09/12/on-magic-vs-magick.htm

There is a debate that exists between whether you should use a K or not. Its silly and I don't care personally unless someone chooses to be offended by the additional letter or lack there of.

From what I gather it either differentiates between stage "magic" and real "Magick" and some people have this preference. I did notice though that it was almost impossible to find any sort of guild of people who weren't just interested in magic the card game without spelling it with the k
Thats why I have it in quotes when I wrote the thread. I personally use the term because no one would understand what I was saying if I used the word practice.

If the thread was how many persons in here practiced the implication would be practice what? So the answer is magic magick psionics etc. etc. ritualistic magic... the whole enchilada. I decided to keep the name of the thread short

 

[whiporwill-o]

Ishtar Shakti

There is a debate that exists between whether you should use a K or not. Its silly and I don't care personally unless someone chooses to be offended by the additional letter or lack there of.

for a few years i used the 'k', but, as i said earlier, i do not associate with Crowley, so i changed it. if people wish to believe that i perform stage magic that's their deal. *shrugs* it doesn't concern me unless they want me to perform at a birthday party.

Quote:

From what I gather it either differentiates between stage "magic" and real "Magick".

i believe this is a commonly spread misconception.

edit: your link further proves my point.

Quote:

I did notice though that it was almost impossible to find any sort of guild of people who weren't just interested in magic the card game without spelling it with the k

i'm not surprised. many guilds tend to use 'buzz words' (ie, using the term Wicca or Magick) because it helps people to find where they need/want to be.

Quote:

Thats why I have it in quotes when I wrote the thread. I personally use the term because no one would understand what I was saying if I used the word practice.

perhaps because everyone, generally speaking, practices something, but not nesseccarily what you would be intending to ask, so further information would be needed. if you had simply said 'magic' i doubt many here would presume you meant stage magic unless so specified.  

[Collowrath]

whiporwill-o

... if you had simply said 'magic' i doubt many here would presume you meant stage magic unless so specified.

Yeah, most of us are pretty good at reading comprehension. confused

There's no sensible reason to spell magic as "magick" in order to differentiate between stage magic and "real" magic. Context does that pretty damn well for a lot of words, all the time, every day.