Mixing Business with Religion

[ncsweet]

I realize this is going to come off "ranty" towards Christians, and I do apologize, but (at least around where I live) they are the ones that I see doing it in the most overt manner. For example... there is a kid's fun place that opened up just down the street from my house, so finally instead of having to drive 30 minutes out of the way for my youngest to get some good sensory time in - he can go bounce his little heart out less than a mile from home. Well, plastered all over the walls of this place are giant posters about "God's Love..." (I can't for the life of me remember the exact quote right now, but it was kind of preachy), as well as brochures, and fliers available on a similar theme., To say that it annoyed me, would be an understatement. Foremost, it assumes that every single person who walks through that door, is Christian - which I realize that about 78% of the US is, but that still leaves quite a few who aren't. I'd also be willing to bet that even of the 78% that identify that way, there are a good many who probably aren't all that religious about it. Also, as a parent, it is my choice to teach my children about religion, so I don't feel it is appropriate for a business to take that choice away from me. I realize that I still have the choice not to take my child there anymore, but I am stuck with compromising my beliefs over my son's happiness (he had a blast the one time we went, and as I said the other places that are similar are quite far).

There is a cute little coffee shop across from my house that I have similar issues with, blatant posting of religious messages and all (but as I don't drink coffee, I can easily just avoid going there).

There are other shops that do similar things, but they are more discreet about it (they might have a shrine or something, but it's not in direct line of sight for patrons, that sort of thing).

So my question (after the wall o' text) is... for your average, everyday businesses, how appropriate do you think it is for business owners to "shove" their religion down their patron's throats?



This questions doesn't apply to businesses which would be obviously associated with a particular religion - such as something like a "Christian Bookstore", or a "Neo-Pagan"/New Age Shop, etc... where you would know, even before walking through the door that you might come in contact with religious material.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

I feel that part of extending the right to religious freedom is to allow those who feel they need to spread their message to do so as they see fit. I don't feel I'm in a position to tell them what they can and can't post in their place of business.

May I ask why it offends you?  

[kage no neko]

Since it's their private property, and you don't HAVE to go there.. it's not exactly forcing religion on anyone. But I think it could definitely drive away certain customers that would otherwise be willing and happy to use their business.
But how appropriate it is depends on the kind if business. I'd think something formal kind of business, where you have to wear proper attire (not just a uniform, but a suit or at least business casual), should be more neutral. Religion shouldn't play any part in something like that. Uniformed jobs I see as more informal and not as important on the whole religion thing. As long as there's no discrimination, I don't see any problem.  

[mechanical kitsy]

While it can be annoying, it isn't too offensive. You aren't being forced to read it. If it really does bother you that much, you could send in a letter asking them to replace it with more child-appropriate posters.  

[ncsweet]

Quote:

May I ask why it offends you?

I'm offended because I'm not Christian. If I am going to extend to others the right to religious freedom, then they should extend that right to me. It is not up to someone else to "sell" their religion to me (and in this case my children), especially when it has nothing to do with the actual purpose of their business.

In the end, I feel it comes down to a general lack of respect for others who are of differing faiths.  

[rmcdra]

Matthew 6

5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

It's show and nothing more. While Christianity is a religion that encourages proselytizing it does not encourage it in the manner you have described. It is a shallow attempt at trying to appear as "xtianz" and a lazy and ineffective way of sharing the Christian faith.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Hey Sweet, you should get a print out of that verse and hand it out to people who run these places in a very solemn manner ^_^ And then say "I'll pray for you".  

[Brass Bell Doll]

ncsweet

I'm offended because I'm not Christian. If I am going to extend to others the right to religious freedom, then they should extend that right to me.

I'm sorry, I do not understand how someone speaking their truth is harming your religious freedom, but it might be because I'm a bit single minded on the matter.

I feel that to expect them to abstain from spreading the gospel because it offends you is as intrusive into their spiritual practices as their posters are into yours.

When I find myself in such a situation, I focus on the fact that we're here and we can coexist peacefully, or we can allow other's actions to effect us. If we truly wish to follow our paths, to deny that wish in others because of our personal feelings about the path itself is to be hypocritical.

ncsweet

It is not up to someone else to "sell" their religion to me (and in this case my children), especially when it has nothing to do with the actual purpose of their business.

I think many Christians feel that they are called to help others find the truth of Christ. It's safe to say some do it more elegantly than others. I also feel that the security in one's path helps a person gracefully deal with people of other paths.

ncsweet

In the end, I feel it comes down to a general lack of respect for others who are of differing faiths.

When I am in the same situation, I know that they are not looking to mistreat me, but instead are trying to help me. I can feel secure in my spirituality, and accept them for who they are and the path they walk.

rmcdra

Matthew 6

5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

It's show and nothing more. While Christianity is a religion that encourages proselytizing it does not encourage it in the manner you have described. It is a shallow attempt at trying to appear as "xtianz" and a lazy and ineffective way of sharing the Christian faith.

I don't feel any of us are in a position to judge their intentions.  

[rmcdra]

Brass Bell Doll

rmcdra

Matthew 6

5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

It's show and nothing more. While Christianity is a religion that encourages proselytizing it does not encourage it in the manner you have described. It is a shallow attempt at trying to appear as "xtianz" and a lazy and ineffective way of sharing the Christian faith.

I don't feel any of us are in a position to judge their intentions.

I'm just going off the information given. It's a place of business and this business is not related to the religion in question. If the business wasn't trying to proselytize, then why do they have those signs up? If it was purely because the owners like those verses then why have them up in such a way that could alienate potential customers?  

[Brass Bell Doll]

rmcdra

I'm just going off the information given.

I feel I am as well.

rmcdra

It's a place of business and this business is not related to the religion in question.

This is my understanding as well.

rmcdra

If the business wasn't trying to proselytize, then why do they have those signs up?

I am assuming that the business is trying to proselytize. I am unclear as to why we would assume otherwise. Could you elaborate?

rmcdra

If it was purely because the owners like those verses then why have them up in such a way that could alienate potential customers?

If the owners wish to choose holding those verses on their walls above the opinions of customers, why would we hold it against them for doing so?  

[rmcdra]

Brass Bell Doll

I am assuming that the business is trying to proselytize. I am unclear as to why we would assume otherwise. Could you elaborate?

You stated that it is not our place to judge.

Quote:

If the owners wish to choose holding those verses on their walls above the opinions of customers, why would we hold it against them for doing so?

I have a responsibility as a representative of Christianity and as a Gnostic Elder to speak up against those that bastardize and cheapen my religion. I've learned from my past experience that if I remain silent, I am saying that this behavior is okay for other Christians. So yes I have every right to judge this behavior because they are misrepresenting my religion.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

rmcdra

You stated that it is not our place to judge.

I feel it is inappropriate for us to judge their intentions.

Matthew 6:5 addresses the intention of the display. I feel if their intention is to seek gratification from others for how Godly they are being, the passage certainly applies, but I do not feel we can know if this is their intention or not.

For that reason alone I feel we can't say if we are seeing their heart or seeing a reflection of our own insecurities. Mayhaps it would be best to look at the action without any thought to the intent first. Is it harmful? Do posting religious messages hurt people?

It can, especially if the person reading them has unresolved issues. Do I feel that we can cater all of our actions to everyone? No, since there are too many variables. I also feel it is just as invasive to allow my personal issues with their actions to tread upon their religious expression.

Is it possible that these messages help people? I feel the potential for someone to be helped is just as present as the potential for someone to be hurt.

When we return to intention, do I feel that they are seeking to help people or are they seeking the approval of their community? I don't feel I can say one way or another, so my only option is to examine both. If they are the kinds of people that Mathew 6:5 speaks of, then I need not comment at all, for they have their reward. I feel they do not need me to build them up or tear them down. What is theirs is theirs. If I feel that they are intending to help and live by their path, I also have no further comment for while I appreciate their devotion to their path, it isn't my path. No further action need be taken by me in either case.

rmcdra

I have a responsibility as a representative of Christianity and as a Gnostic Elder to speak up against those that bastardize and cheapen my religion. I've learned from my past experience that if I remain silent, I am saying that this is okay for other Christians. So yes I have every right to judge this behavior because they are misrepresenting my religion.

I feel that's fair, but only if your judgment of them is correct.

I do not feel based on what has been said that we can say they are or are not. I feel that the simple presence of spiritual posters isn't enough to determine their intention. I also feel that the passage you mentioned doesn't condone an antagonistic approach to the issue at hand, for it says they have their reward. It doesn't say they are bad people for seeking the approval of others, merely that such approval is the only reward for such actions.  

[kage no neko]

I'd rather there just be signs or quotes from the bible than get my own personal sermon about how I need to accept Jesus into my life.
But I understand, it'd still be better if noone would have to deal with either.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

kage no neko

But I understand, it'd still be better if noone would have to deal with either.

May I ask why you feel that way?

Edit: Another thought occurred to me. What if the business owners are keeping those posters there as reminders for themselves?

If I found myself in the situation that ncsweet does, I would feel tempted to consider it a message to me- but it's also possible that it's not directed at me at all, but it could be directed towards the owners as well as a reminder of their path.