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TeaDidikai

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:16 am
Linked in another thread was this piece written by one of the guild's members.

Since they linked it as a resource, it would be a good idea to examine it for it's value.

Quote:
In today's world it seems that religion has become a central core of our lives.
This first premise seems largely unjustified. I'm currently living in a country that has a distinct separation between Church and State.

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Even so are we really religious? We talk about fighting for god and being good Christians but the truth is on home turf do you really believe the words that are preached to you every Sunday?


God should have been capitalized given the context as a proper noun. And my suspicion is that most Christians do believe what is preached, to differing degrees.

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Do you even attend church every Sunday? And be honest with yourself, do you really believe in the text of the bible and an all-powerful-ever-living god that will forgive all your sins or send you to hell based on how you choose to live?


This is actually a pretty ignorant understanding of Christian tradition, since it completely ignores key concepts for the majority of Christendom, such as Free Will, the sacrament of reconciliation, the forgiveness of sin, passages from scripture that address how people sin, who goes to heaven and what hell is.



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I took a spiritual journey of my own when I found myself questioning these very things. I found myself searching for what I truly believed in and questioned my devotion to my own Catholic upbringings. Amongst my upbringings were superstition and occult movies from the age of five, so it was no wonder I was heavily interested in witchcraft. When I started researching the Witch Trials for a school report I discovered something very interesting. I learned that Witchcraft was very much alive and was even considered a practiced religion in many parts of the world. The Craft, now known as Wicca, was brought out of the closet in the 1950s by Gerald Gardner who professed to be an initiated witch. With his professions more witches came out of the closet and the laws against witchcraft were repealed in 1951, thus paving the way for Gardner and many others to publish books on the subject.

There is no evidence of a hidden witchcraft religion. Murry's own thesis was debunked in her time.

Gardner created what we know of the Wica.


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To my surprise, I was able to find books on the subject very easily and now almost every bookstore carries a New Age section bearing many books on the subject.
Unfortunately there is no examination of the quality of these books.

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I started delving deeply into the Craft and even gave up on attending Church.


So, you broke your word? And you are encouraging others to do so?

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Despite my affirmations, however, many of the ideals of Wicca strongly contradicted what I honestly believed in courtesy of my Catholic upbringing.


I wonder how. I mean, clearly, fertility cults and Catholicism aren't the same. But I wonder about the validity of the criticism issued.

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Wicca preached of an equal higher power male and feminine balanced completely.
Wica is about polarity, not balance. And the Goddess is mastered by the Lord.

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Wicca also followed a devotion to nature.
The Wica are devoted to their Lord and Lady. The Lord and Lady are not the sum total of nature.

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However, it was their belief that evil as a sole entity did not exist was something I could not fathom.
I doubt this is doctrine of the Wica.


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I believed that if everything had an equal then truly there was an evil force to match the good in the world. I believed that there was constantly a war of good and evil and that we are all but pawns. I believed in angels in demons and a battle that never ended. This was something Wicca completely contradicted.
I think this is a statement made from ignorance.

In much the same way there are Hard Polytheistic Wica, there are likely members of the cult who agree with claims about good and evil.



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I also realized that I had a problem with keeping up on the rituals.
I have a sinking suspicion that the author of this piece was never initiated.


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I would follow them every now and then, but it all really seemed to be icing on the cake in my opinion.
The authors opinion is grossly misinformed, since the rituals are orthopraxic in nature and thus are the religion.

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I believed that some elements may be necessary, but if a spell really was equal to that of a prayer, why wouldn't a mere prayer suffice?
This is a highly flawed assertion.

Petition Prayers are not the summation of prayer.


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So I decided to look back into the Catholic faith and that Book of Revelations as well as the lore on angels and demons. I learned that unlike the generic Christian faith Catholics looked highly on the Mother Mary and even some Wiccans who followed Catholicism as well viewed Mary as a vessel of the Goddess.
Those individuals are likely not of the Wica, since the mortal women who was the mother of an incarnated YHVH has no place within Wica.


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I also found many parallels between Catholicism and Wicca and realized that I could not fully deny either one as part of my faith. I also realized I believed in many other religions like Taoism, Buddhism and even Muslim.
Islam. The name of the religion is Islam.

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They all had similar concepts in that they believed in a higher power and that good was rewarded with good and bad was rewarded with bad.
This is not a function of Buddhism. Nor the Witch Cult.

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I attempted to go back to church to balance the rituals of Wicca but both seemed tedious and absolutely unnecessary.

Again, this is sheer ignorance as to the nature of Wica, since the orthopraxy is necessary.

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At church I'd sit amongst people who held dark secrets that they wanted forgiven for
That's one of the benefits of Christian theology.


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or people that needed to show face or some who just blindly followed the tradition of getting up each morning because that was how they were raised.
Wow. This smacks of arrogance. Demeaning other people and their search because of course these people couldn't be honest seekers like the author of the piece. They have to be mindless fools.

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Once a girl looked at me and said she could tell I was very "spiritual." At first I thought it was because of the pentacle I wore professing my faith. As I got to know her more I learned that she had a gift of seeing things. One time she mentioned seeing people whom she and her friend called "faeries" and I said "You see dead people." I hadn't meant it as a joke. I was dead serious though slightly playing off the movie. She didn't seem to think it was funny and I felt terribly sorry she thought I meant it so. However, from that moment on I thought back to what she said and realized she had pinpointed who I was.
I think this is a shallow understanding of a self, as well as an attempt to find external validation.

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I was "spiritual." I couldn't define my religion because I wasn't religious.
I don't think the author understands what these words mean.

The definition for religious that includes "relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity" could just as easily be applied to anything described as "spiritual".

Because of this, I think the author is merely attempting to dismiss other practices.

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I believed. I believed without ritual and without a physical church. The true church was in my soul and I was able to feel closer to God by believing in myself and in Them with no hesitation or reservation. In my opinion the word "religion" came from the word "ritual"



I really wish authors would put in the two minutes research to confirm or refute any opinion formed in ignorance.

It came from the Latin religionem, whereas ritual came from the Latin ritus.

If you want to examine the etymology, and the historical definitions, ritual came from the word religion, not the other way around. Further respect for that which is sacred is not synonymous with "ceremony."



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I was completely and utterly "spiritual" and I didn't feel the need to prove my faith to anyone. It was a kind of enlightening and I feel happier for it. It's a feeling I feel sad that very few people ever get to know. Such a feeling can only be felt when you are at one with your faith and you don't care what other people think about it or who sees you practice it. You just believe. You don't let other people tell you it's wrong or you practice it wrong. You just believe.


Advocating for a "whatever you feel is right" attitude is irresponsible. Especially when there are folks like the Frosts around.

And when privilege fuels senses of entitlement and creates racism.

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When I see the wars of today
The wars of today, much like the wars of previous days, have far more to do with resources than faith.

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and the way people try to impose their own beliefs on others I can only feel sad.
My typical reaction is relief. But then, molesting children shouldn't be a religious right.

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First of all, I feel sad for the people being imposed upon

Funny. I think people who rape children as part of their religion should be imposed right into a cell. Well, actually, I would advocate for the death sentence with some qualifiers, but sadly, rape and molestation isn't a capital offense.




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If they were truly content and truly believed they wouldn't feel the need to make others see.
I'm perfectly content to not allow people to do horrific things in the name of their religion. Hence why I advocate for responsible theological exploration.


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They would believe without judgment or reservation.
Judgment is not a dirty word. Being able to judge for yourself if someone is full of s**t, if someone is wrong, or ********- if their immoral ******** that deserve to go to jail- that's a good thing.


On the contrary. If people were truly confident, they wouldn't need an overly permissive attitude to protect themselves from criticism.

That's what this is. If no one can be criticized, then the person who proposes this can't be criticized if they are wrong. Other people risk criticism and it can build strength and conviction.


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In a novel I am working on I created a kingdom devoted totally to the motto of a patron goddess. Though the goddess and the kingdom are completely fictional their motto is one I wish all people could readily devote themselves to. "Love as thou wilt, without judgment or reservation." It is how I have deemed to live my life and I hope that others can find their own path and free themselves of the chains of society and just believe.
Remember that when someone rapes someone you care about. You're not to judge them.

Remember that you're not allowed to judge when a racist a*****e spits on a person that has a different color of skin.

Remember not to judge the mother who scalds her child to death.

Don't judge the man who rapes their girlfriends seven year old daughter, after all it was his right to Love as thou wilt.  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:58 am
................ I agree with you Tea, especially with the last bit. Since I have joined the guild and have been examining what members say and watching what has been going on, I am almost disgusted with some of the things ignorant people say. The blatant disregard for having an open mind and researching what they want to believe in. And then the ones that take offense to being corrected or proven wrong. There are times I just sit speechless to some remarks made and I am shocked. It was my understanding that this guild was to help, direct, correct, etc. So the ones coming in here "asking for guidance" just throw it away. Not all of course. I'm sure that there are members that get a lot of insight and clarification. Also, accept the criticism given to them.

I don't know maybe it how I think. I have been told by people around me that I have and odd logical way of thinking.  

bones89


TeaDidikai

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:01 pm
bones89
And then the ones that take offense to being corrected or proven wrong.
A lot of people confuse their opinions with their sense of self.

Any criticism is viewed as an attack on the self, rather than a correction on a false idea.  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:05 pm
Quote:
In a novel I am working on I created a kingdom devoted totally to the motto of a patron goddess. Though the goddess and the kingdom are completely fictional their motto is one I wish all people could readily devote themselves to. "Love as thou wilt, without judgment or reservation."


Last time I checked, plagiarism was a bad thing. Jacqueline Carey might have something to say about you stealing her intellectual property and mangling it. ninja  

too2sweet

Tipsy Fairy


Synnthetika

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:54 pm
While I agree with everything you pointed out about this guy's post, it brought up a question I've had.

Is it possible to "create your own belief system (CYOBS)" while being responsible? Also, what are the differences between Eclectic Paganism and CYOBS?  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:02 pm
Synnthetika
While I agree with everything you pointed out about this guy's post, it brought up a question I've had.

Is it possible to "create your own belief system (CYOBS)" while being responsible? Also, what are the differences between Eclectic Paganism and CYOBS?


I actually thought that's what this thread was going to be about when I first saw the subject.
IMO it's perfectly possible to create your own belief system while being responsible. It's what I'm in the process of doing, actually. It takes time, and research, and having a clear vision of what your goals are in creating something. Most important, I feel, is knowing your limits. I think I'm calling it DIY Paganism these days, or Yes I'm Making It Up As I Go Along.

As for the difference between that and Eclectic Paganism...well I guess there's also room for talking about the differences between eclectic and syncretic paths. But in general I'd say Eclectic Paganism draws more on...spiritual aspects of various different cultures, keeping those discrete. Syncretic Paganism seeks to integrate those disparate sources into something...I don't know, harmonious?

Recently I've been feeling like I ought to make a Pathways thread to have a concise presentation of what exactly I'm doing in my spiritual life, and get fresh perspectives on it.  

AvalonAuggie

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maenad nuri
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:15 pm
I'm reminded of Patrick McCollum on the last elemental podcast talking about Eclectic Pagans who "create their own path.". He says he asks what they do; inevitably it's cast a circle, invoke elements, calling watchtowers, etc.

He gets a sort of chuckle in his voice and says something about how it's amazing that they created that all on their own.  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:04 pm
TeaDidikai
bones89
And then the ones that take offense to being corrected or proven wrong.
A lot of people confuse their opinions with their sense of self.

Any criticism is viewed as an attack on the self, rather than a correction on a false idea.


Sometimes the attacker lumps the opinions and the other together, and instead of critiquing the argument, critique the person.

I am a negative person for thinking that most New Age white-light business is bullshit, to some.  

aoijea23487


TeaDidikai

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:08 pm
Synnthetika
Is it possible to "create your own belief system (CYOBS)" while being responsible?
Of course.

It takes work and a willingness to examine things very carefully.

Quote:
Also, what are the differences between Eclectic Paganism and CYOBS?

Honestly? I'm not sure, except for maybe some forms of CYOBS might not be pagan.  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:47 am
TeaDidikai

Quote:
Also, what are the differences between Eclectic Paganism and CYOBS?

Honestly? I'm not sure, except for maybe some forms of CYOBS might not be pagan.

Depending on the person, Chaos Magic can be seen as either EP or CYOBS.

The problem is, like Tea said, there are some of us that either belong to both parts of the dichotomy [of Abrahamic vs non-Abrahamic] or outside of it. I'm kind of part of both, so I've been wary of calling myself a pagan lately.  

Wrath of Ezekiel

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EternalHearts

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:35 am
too2sweet
Quote:
In a novel I am working on I created a kingdom devoted totally to the motto of a patron goddess. Though the goddess and the kingdom are completely fictional their motto is one I wish all people could readily devote themselves to. "Love as thou wilt, without judgment or reservation."


Last time I checked, plagiarism was a bad thing. Jacqueline Carey might have something to say about you stealing her intellectual property and mangling it. ninja


AWWW! You beat me to it!
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:48 pm
True Colours of Destiny


The problem is, like Tea said, there are some of us that either belong to both parts of the dichotomy [of Abrahamic vs non-Abrahamic] or outside of it.
Quoted for truth. 3nodding  

TeaDidikai


Sam Oaken Willow 17

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:16 pm
AvalonAuggie
Synnthetika
While I agree with everything you pointed out about this guy's post, it brought up a question I've had.

Is it possible to "create your own belief system (CYOBS)" while being responsible? Also, what are the differences between Eclectic Paganism and CYOBS?


I actually thought that's what this thread was going to be about when I first saw the subject.
IMO it's perfectly possible to create your own belief system while being responsible. It's what I'm in the process of doing, actually. It takes time, and research, and having a clear vision of what your goals are in creating something. Most important, I feel, is knowing your limits. I think I'm calling it DIY Paganism these days, or Yes I'm Making It Up As I Go Along.

As for the difference between that and Eclectic Paganism...well I guess there's also room for talking about the differences between eclectic and syncretic paths. But in general I'd say Eclectic Paganism draws more on...spiritual aspects of various different cultures, keeping those discrete. Syncretic Paganism seeks to integrate those disparate sources into something...I don't know, harmonious?

Recently I've been feeling like I ought to make a Pathways thread to have a concise presentation of what exactly I'm doing in my spiritual life, and get fresh perspectives on it.


I'm working on this process too, though I feel I still need to do LOTS of research before I'm even comfortable putting something down even in a Word document. I have a few ethics written, but other than that I don't know where the hell I'm going with it. So making it up sounds wonderful right now and trying to walk the Path like I would when my children are around....(I don't have any, just an expression...)

Harmonious is a good way of explaining it. I haven't thought about it that way before--thank you.  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:26 pm
Sam Oaken Willow 17
I'm working on this process too, though I feel I still need to do LOTS of research before I'm even comfortable putting something down even in a Word document.
Writing can help the process, jus' sayin'.  

TeaDidikai


Sam Oaken Willow 17

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:43 pm
I know, I'm just really nervous. My guardians are encouraging me to get stuff together for the full moon and I know that I should do it because they want the best for me but still the me inside (not totally inside but w/e) is screaming.  
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