Trolls or Fluffs?

[TeaDidikai]

People walking into the guild, bashing other religions, others calling people sluts for daring to actually speak from an educated position on Wica or challenging their word which they wish to have taken as gospel, or so called "Godhi's" whose claims about Norse Magic are demonstrably false within the Eddas or those who think that a Handfasting is synonymous with Pagan + Wedding- whatever the cause, there have been an influx of those who are willfully ignorant and do not join the guild to actually get better.

They're prime examples of Fluffs, to be sure, especially when they brag about how no amount of reasoning will ever change their mind.

Or are they fluffs?

How can we be sure that the new search function hasn't simply brought the guild to the attention of numerous trolls- especially in light of the flames they indulge in.

If they are trolls, what is there to be done?
If they're honest to goodness fluffs, who have no wish to actually surrender their delusions, what can we do?

My current theory is that if nothing else, they can be given as an example of what tolls on reason Fluffism can actually have, and they may help lurkers take the first stems from Willfully Ignorant to merely uneducated.

This becomes a challenge however, especially when it becomes clear that they are profaning the things we hold sacred. How would you recommend others overcome this challenge?  

[ShadowCatSoul]

Not that I have the right to speak out much considering I am still a seeker of knowledge myself, but it seems that those fluffs who are here who have no intention of listening to anyone but themselves and don't want to get better have evolved, or maybe devolved I should say? into trolls.  

[Wrath of Ezekiel]

And the big dilemma comes. If we they are a troll, the best advice we are given is to ignore them. But if they're genuinely a fluffy, then we do the worst thing by ignoring them.

But if we think they are a fluffy and respond and the respond nastily, how do we know if they are truly ignorant or they are a troll feeding off people's misery? It's an issue that I have a bit of trouble on deciding which stance I go on.

Slightly off-topic: Have you guys noticed there has been quite a bit of discussion on trolling within the ED lately? Everyone hates trolls, but no one can come to a conclusion about it. SF and the GCD has been seeing some of it recently also.  

[maenad nuri]

Honestly? I don't think it one or the other -- most of the time, the attitude is the same as the students I had in high school.

Which is why, despite my wanting to pull my hair out of my head, I don't get too worked up about it. Not everyone is going to live up to my high standards right now.

And I don't think we, the regs, are wholly exempt. Yes, the point of the guild is to challenge, but if we are doing nothing but poking at people who aren't at our level, or wording things so that while they aren't inherently inflammatory, can really be construed as such.

Sure, some mean to be inflammatory and some are just fluffy, but most seem to just be average teenagers, and hopefully we can lay some groundwork for the future.  

[Nines19]

Can one be a troll without knowing it?

If so, some of them may be both.  

[Aino Ailill]

Nines19

Can one be a troll without knowing it?

If so, some of them may be both.

Assuming we are working with Gaia's definition of a troll, then one can be a troll without knowing what it is called but they must be fully aware of their actions. A troll is someone who purposefully posts inflammatory material in order to provoke anger/disgust.  

[Recursive Paradox]

Aino Ailill

Nines19

Can one be a troll without knowing it?

If so, some of them may be both.

Assuming we are working with Gaia's definition of a troll, then one can be a troll without knowing what it is called but they must be fully aware of their actions. A troll is someone who purposefully posts inflammatory material in order to provoke anger/disgust.

A troll is actually anyone who posts any kind of material that specifically triggers a response from one or more people in social engineering fashion. Some may actually have entirely different purposes than just provoking anger and disgust. But those ones are less common.

Most trolls are just manipulative assholes.  

[CilverCyanide]

I think trolls cause drama for their own entertainment and for the sake of drawing attention to themselves.

Fluffs are just those who are too stubborn to admit they're wrong.

Dealing with trolls is simple. Just ignore them. If they get no rise out of the guild then they'll find some other source of entertainment. In the case of being a mod, I'd just delete the thread/post and move on. In the case of a guild member, I'd ignore the post and do not reply to it.

Dealing with fluffs is not so easy. You can explain to them why they're wrong 'till you're blue in the face. If they're really a "Fluffy Bunny" then there's nothing that will change their mind except time and experience. So just explain clearly why they're wrong. Answer all their questions honestly and unbiasedly. Also avoid posting anything that might give off 'attitude' or that could be taken the wrong way. They're already upset- something like that could bring on personal attacks.  

[Bastemhet]

TeaDidikai

If they're honest to goodness fluffs, who have no wish to actually surrender their delusions, what can we do?

Nothing but reiterate the point of this guild and give them the option to stay or leave in light of that information. They have to want to learn before they can move forward. Trying to "make" them learn will only provoke the opposite.  

[TeaDidikai]

maenad nuri

Honestly? I don't think it one or the other -- most of the time, the attitude is the same as the students I had in high school.

Which is why, despite my wanting to pull my hair out of my head, I don't get too worked up about it. Not everyone is going to live up to my high standards right now.

I can understand that- but at the same time, there's acceptable behavior and there isn't.

I'm going to use ShadowCat as an example. I disagree with her, and I think that the next couple years will be important for her during her growth process- and that's okay. She and Deo had their little tiff and she grew and learned that she can't speak to others the way she had, and she's done a lot of work. She should be commended.

Then we have the flip side. Vitriol responses, flaming and the like. Not accepting this behavior doesn't strike me as "high standards", but minimal ones.

Quote:

And I don't think we, the regs, are wholly exempt. Yes, the point of the guild is to challenge, but if we are doing nothing but poking at people who aren't at our level, or wording things so that while they aren't inherently inflammatory, can really be construed as such.

Sure, some mean to be inflammatory and some are just fluffy, but most seem to just be average teenagers, and hopefully we can lay some groundwork for the future.

I completely agree that most are people who are simply at a common stage in their development. But I think there are others who are combining that stage with something else. It explains their perspective, but not their reaction.  

[o sunflower king]

Well, on the fluffy note, I think that when it comes down to it, perhaps they should be ignored.
I know people will get angry with me for saying this, but, hear me out.
Let's say there's a fluffy we've tried to teach for a while, but they continue to be convinced they know it all and refuse to acknowledge they could be wrong.
I think we just need to ignore them. When they get over themselves, perhaps they can return with a new respect for what there is to know and an open mind to realize when they are, indeed, wrong.

In the end, it's their responsibility, not ours, to make sure they learn.  

[TeaDidikai]

Taerinn

In the end, it's their responsibility, not ours, to make sure they learn.

This is true. However, the flip side is that their ignorance can do a lot of damage to those who will seek them out for answers.

Look at the poor saps who are being taught by a "godhi" who doesn't understand the most basic concepts present in the Eddas.  

[bondage bunnie]

I just wanna say... Troll is a derogatory term based of the hated/loved creatures from many European and Scandinavian mythos. As such You are making fun of my religion and I think you should post an apology right away.





Tongue in cheek trolls post stuff like that. And ya I actually do find it insulting they use that term for people who are forum trolls. But hey what can ya do?  

[Fiddlers Green]

What can one do indeed...
There is a certain liberty in losing an internal attachment to a cause. It allows one to remain collected in the face of great blasphemies. However, it douses the spark of passion. In personal dialogue, I find passion important. In script only dialogue, it loses much of it's impact.
However, it brings up the question of how much one can accomplish, in regards to a goal they have no real concern about.

Time to take the rake to this matter.
Do we perceive a situation as it is because we wish to, or is it causal. Is it fact or desire that we are really interacting with. Who here loves Truth? For it's own sake? Who here loves Truth for the power it gives us over others? Who here loves Truth because it elevates us, not necessarily above others, but because we feel better about ourselves for knowing it. Who here does not believe in Truth, but rather in opinions and perspectives?
Now, let us apply what we learn from this to our role here.
Why are we in this guild?
When we place the answer to the latter question, in the perspective of the former, our true intent becomes clear.
Now that we have intent, we may look at the intend of those this thread addresses, labelled as Fluffies and (internet)Trolls. We may analyze how their intent interacts with our own. From there, we have many options, which are highly dependent upon the above answers.
I am not of the mind that we are all here for the same reasons. Nor do I feel we all share common intent. Therefore we are left with the ancient social dilemma. How much of our own personal intent are we willing to sacrifice to pursue the commonality's intent. This is a very personal question. also, do we all perceive the same commonality intent? Is this a matter that requires clarification.
I have been markedly absent recently. thus my perceptions of the common intent are largely modeled rather than observed.
Just to clarify, so I might theor on this further, what is the intent of the commonality?  

[Recursive Paradox]

bondage bunnie

I just wanna say... Troll is a derogatory term based of the hated/loved creatures from many European and Scandinavian mythos. As such You are making fun of my religion and I think you should post an apology right away.

Concern trolling. Low key variant. Possible belief troll but may be a DA as well. No griefer or noise tactics, but some strange grammatical artifacts make it slightly harder to conceal as trolling.

Not bad. I'd say you're mid level novice if you actually made a career out of it.

Quote:

And ya I actually do find it insulting they use that term for people who are forum trolls.

Why do you find it insulting?