DnD 3.5 - !!!Updated!!! Home-brew Base Class: Mageknight

your thoughts?

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This poll closed on February 24, 2005.
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[elindred]

i've been pretty bored this spring break, so i sat down and put together this base class, which i've been meaning to do for a while. it's my answer to the fighting arcane caster. as always, i'm looking for any comments or feedback you guys might provide.

this writeup pulls material from complete adventurer, complete arcane and complete warrior. the most vital piece of info is the Arcane Strike feat, which lets you sacrifice one of your spells per day to give yourself a bonus to hit and damage depending on the level of the spell sacrificed.

so, without further ado..

Attention!!!this post has been updated with new info. red text is new stuff. gray text is stuff that's been removed



Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8

Class Skills: Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (architecture & engineering), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (nobility/royalty), Profession, Ride, Speak Language, Spellcaft, Swim
//no longer class skills: Climb, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Use Magic Device

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + int mod) * 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + int mod

Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Mageknights are proficient in all simple and martial weapons, and light and medium armor and bucklers and light shields.

Spells/Spells known: (see Cleric description, except that spells are drawn from Mageknight list, spells are Intelligence based, Mageknight spells are arcane spells, Mageknights have no domain abilities, nor is their spellcasting affected by alignment, and not all Mageknight spells have verbal components).
//Mageknight spellcasting was formerly bard-like

Armoured Mage (Medium) (Ex): Mageknights can cast spells in medium armour and bucklers and light shields without suffering from arcane spell failure. this ability does not apply to spells gained from a different spellcasting class.

Magic Weapon (Sp): a Mageknight can use Magic Weapon as a spell-like ability 3 times per day, at a caster level equal to his Mageknight level.

Combat Casting : a Mageknight of at least 2nd level is treated as having the Combat Casting feat.
//entirely new ability

Improved Spell Duration (Su): when a Mageknight reaches 3rd level, the duration of any of his Mageknight spells with which he targets himself is calculated as if his caster level were 1 higher. If the spells duration is fixed, it’s duration is doubled. In the case of spells that specify multiple targets, only the Mageknight is affected by this ability.
If a Mageknight applies the Extend Spell feat (or a similar effect) to any of his spells, its effects stack with Improved Spell Duration (remember that doubling a double is a triple, etc). //entirely new description
At 11th level, this benefit is doubled, and at 19th level this benefit is tripled.

Arcane Strike: at 4th level, a Mageknight is treated as having the Arcane Strike feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.

Bonus Feat: at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th levels, a Mageknight gains a bonus feat, which must be chosen from either the fighter's bonus feat list or the list below. He must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat.

Mageknight Bonus Feats List: Battle Caster, Combat Casting, Craft magic Arms & Armor, Eschew Materials, Extend Spell, Extend Spell-like Ability, Extra Slot, Extraordinary Concentration, Heighten Spell-like Ability, Insightful Strike, Mobile Spellcasting, Obtain Familiar, Scribe Scroll, Shielded Casting
//no longer bonus feats: Extra Spell, Magical aptidude, Spell Mastery

Magic Vestment (Sp): a Mageknight of at least 6nd level can use Magic Vestment as a spell-like ability 2 times per day, at a caster level equal to his Mageknight level.
//entirely new ability

Hardened Caster (Ex): a Mageknight of 7th level gains a +2 competence bonus on Fortitude saves and concentration checks related to spellcasting. This bonus increases to +4 at 13th level, and +6 at 19th level. A Mageknight loses this bonus when he suffers from arcane spell failure or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

Heightened Arcane Strike (Su): when a Mageknight of at least 8th level activates the Arcane Strike feat, the level of the sacrificed spell is treated as 1 higher for the purposes of calculating the extra attack and damage bonuses. Every 6 levels beyond 8th (ie, 14th and 20th) the sacrificed spell's effecitve level is raised again by 1 for this purpose. //this ability used to be granted 4 times, for a total of +4 at 20th.

Greater Magic Weapon (Sp): a Mageknight of at least 11th level can use Greater Magic Weapon as a spell-like ability 3 times per day, at a caster level equal to his Mageknight level. This replaces the Mageknight's Magic Weapon ability.

Extended Spell Power (Su): when a Mageknight reaches 16th level, the duration of any of his Mageknight spells with which he targets himself is doubled, as if affected by the Extend Spell feat (but without any adjustment to the spell?s effective level or casting time).
//entirely new ability

Enhance Weapon(Su): when a Mageknight reaches 17th level, any weapon he wields gains an enhancement bonus to hit and damage equal to one fourth his Mageknight level. This benefit lasts as long as he wields the weapon and is immediately lost if it is dropped, sheathed, disarmed or otherwise let go of. This enhancement effect can be dispelled with a successful caster level check DC 10 + the wielder’s Mageknight level, in which case the weapon cannot be affected by this ability for 1d4 rounds. //entirely new description
//formerly called "Magic Arsenal", formerly a Spell-like ability useable at will, formerly useful for thrown weapons

Mageknight spells:

0-level: Arcane Mark, Dancing Lights, Guidance, Mending, Message, Read Magic, Resistance, Virtue

1st-level: Alarm, Benign Transposition, Deathwatch, Enlarge Person, Entropic Shield, Expeditious Retreat (swift), Faerie Fire, Guiding Light, Mage Armor, Magic Mouth, Magic Weapon, Mount, Obscuring Mist, Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Shield, True Strike, Ventriloquism
//no longer on list: Chill Touch, Shocking Grasp

2nd-level: Aid, Bear's Endurance, Blades Of Fire, Blur, Bull's Strength, Daggerpsell Stance, Fly (swift), Fog Cloud, Fox's Cunning, Heroism, Invisibility (swift), Mirror Image, Protection From Arrows, Rage, See Invisibility, Sonic Weapon, Status, Tactical Precision, Whispering Wind, Wraithstrike
//no longer on list: Cat's Grace, Mindless Rage, Whirling Blade

3rd-level: Blink, Displacement, Good Hope, Haste, Keen Edge, Mage Armor (greater), Magic Vestment, Magic Weapon (greater), Phantom Steed, Ring of Blades, Sleet Storm
//no longer on list: Vampiric Touch

4th-level: Dimension Door, Fire Shield, Globe of Invulnerability, Invisibility (greater), Locate Creature, Sending, Solid Fog, Stoneskin, War Cry

5th-level: Blink (greater), Heroism (greater), Nightstalker's Transformation, Prying Eyes, Righteous Might, Telepathic Bond

6th-level: Antilife Shell, Brilliant Blade, Cacophonic Shield, Find The Path, Globe of Invulnerability, Guards And Wards, Tenser's Transformation

//old table


//no longer abilities:

Arcane Grace (Su): starting at 6th level, a Mageknight can sacrifice one of his spells for the day (of 1st level or higher) as a free action that provokes no attacks of opportunity, and gain a bonus to all saving throws equal to the level of the spell sacrificed, up to his intmod. This bonus lasts for a number of minutes equal to his Mageknight level.

Imbue Arms and Armour (Ex): a Mageknight of at least 14th level can create magic weapons and armour without knowing the spells required to make the item (though he still must know Craft Magic Arms and Armor). He can substitude a Use Magic Device check (dc 15 + spell level or 25 + spell level for arcane and divne spells respectively) in place of a spell he doesn't know or can't cast. If the check succeeds, the Mageknight can create the item as if he had cast the required spell. If it fails, he cannot complete the item. He does not expend the XP or gp costs for making the item; his progress is simply arrested. He cannot retry his Use Magic Device check for tha tspell until he gains a new level.

[elindred]

bump

i know you can see this thread guys >_>

[aridiar]

*will look it over after classes today and put reply in here via edit later* razz

Edit: wow... not even an asetic monk is that out of hand... you need to water it down big time, or give this think an EL modifier xd

I'd love ato play this thing, but as a DM I'd ban it from my campaign for being so unbalanced

[Ebil_Fluffeh_Kitteh]

Dont mean to sound judgemental..but it seem's quite 'Feat Heavy' as in..it gets something at every level. Very few of the classes do this...and it pretty much makes the class uber o_o...It would be good as an epic class or prestige class or something like that though..

[faradaysdisciple]

There's something not right with it... I can't put my finger on it... I think it's the something at every level bit of it

[Peddy]

I'll be blunt - you open to critiques, El?

[Pengjin]

If you were looking for something that is in the middle, go for bard. The Mageknight does seem over powered. The only other class that gets a feat every level is Monk right? And Monks are assuming over powered as well.

[Calunio]

Well... it's pretty cool actually, I like it and I would play with it.

But a bit overpowered. Compare it to the bard class. The only thing the bards have that mageknights don't are their music (which are not such a great deal).

But Mageknights have higher hit dice, don't have arcane spell failure, and loads of other abilities.

If I were to make it more balance, I would reduce the hit die to d6, and remove the bonus feats.

Arcane Grace is also too powerful, it could be reduced to a single save test.

Uhm... how about a Prc? biggrin

[geckomage]

amored mage should only be light armor and no shields,
skills, only 2 fighter and wizards have 2 and thats what your doing,
also you don't have spell craft in there or knowlege arcane, get rid of use magic device if the spells are not based of charisma.
for spells if your going spells liek a bard and no preparation it has to be charisma, i say make him study spells and keep int, but for alot of the abilities have it be charisma mod.
hardern caster should only be for concentration checks not fortitude
arcane grace, gone, imbume arms and armor, gone, magic arseal gone, replace thoughs with two extra bonus feats some ware.

another idea is make is a prc.

[elindred]

thanks for the replies everyone.

people are suggesting that i make it into a prestige class, but i'm trying to see how far i can go with making this into a base class, since i think such a class ought to exist.

i also want to keep Mageknight as an intelligence based class, though i needed some way to deal with their limited spell list, so i chose spontaneous casting. maybe i'll make them cleric style prepared casters instead.

originally i didn't think that granting a new ability every level would be so bad, since there are other classes that do it as well, though perhaps it's a bit excessive for a class that has decent casting like this one. still, it would have to come down to the power of the abilities themselves, not just how many they get. aside from Arcane Grace, no one's complained about the power of any single ability yet, which is encouraging.

someone said to compare the Mageknight to a Bard. while it's true that the bard is softer, there's much to be said for the Bard's ability to make everyone around him better. for instance, those mysterious bonuses to hit and damage are no small deal, since they stack with almost everything and can reach up to +4. Bard also has social skills and stealth/detection skills, which make him useful outside of combat, unlike Mageknight. Mageknight is a much more self-oriented class, so it needs to be a little tougher.

people seem to dislike the Arcane Grace ability. compared to Divine Grace, though, which carries no opportunity cost and is based on an ability score modifier, i don't think it's overpowered. on the other hand, they already have another ability which improves their ability scores (ie, hardened caster), so i might ditch one or the other, to lighten the class a little.

to lighten the class, i think i'll also remove Use Magic Device from their class skill list and remove the Imbue Arms And Armour ability, neither of which are strictly needed.

Peddy

I'll be blunt - you open to critiques, El?

sortof a redundant question, but yes.

thanks again for everyone's time and feedback. i'm still listening though (i see at least two people with something to say yet), so keep the feedback coming.

[Peddy]

Okay, El. Here goes.

It needs some tweaking. It's a good start, but it doesn't seem quite right just yet. I like what you're aiming for though. biggrin

*rolls up her sleeves* Right, down to the nitty gritty.

3/4 BA, d8 HD, good Will saves. Seems good.

4 + Int Mod skills - why? As presented it's an int based caster, which would argue for having it be 2 + int mod as the int casting stat will offset the lower base skill points. However, as what I'm going to propose later on would impact that, keeping it at 4 + seems more acceptable.

Skill List: I'd suggest removing UMD from the class skill list as the class does not seem to be very 'deception based'. I would suggest replacing it by expanding the Knowledge (Arcana) to be Knowledge (All, taken seperatly). I'd also toss Profession on there as a class skill, because I'm of the opinion that everyone should have Craft and Profession as class skills, period.

Armor/Weapon Profs: You didn't list what armor they're proficient with. I'm assuming Light and Medium. Also, are they prof with bucklers? They should be if they're prof with light shields. You may want to list it as just prof w/ shields (but not tower shields) as that seems to be the notational standard.

Spellcasting: As the class is a spontaneous arcane spellcaster, their casting stat should be Charisma. The spellcasting section should be fleshed out a bit and not just reference 'as a bard, but..' to avoid confusion, but I can see why you'd take the shorter route atm. S'all good. It's worth noting that Wizards are the only prepared, int based spellcasters out there. I think the intention is to have int-based casting be unique feature of the Wizard class (excepting assassins, who retained their int-based casting so as not to screw 'em in the 3/3.5 conversion. They'd be cha-based otherwise)

Okay, on to class features.

Armored Mage: I like the ability, however I suggest changing it somewhat so that they can ignore ASF from Light Armor and Bucklers at 1st level, and then upgrade to Medium Armor and Light Shields at 4th or 5th.

Magic Weapon: specify the effect as being applicable only to weapons used by the character. I'd likewise suggest making it 1/day per 3 or 4 levels rather than a flat 3/day. I'd also roll the Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Arsenal abilities into expansions of the base Magic Weapon ability rather seperate abilities on their own. I'd also considder moving GMW to 10th, or possibly 12th.

Hardened Caster: I like the idea, but I might rename the ability (or rename some of the other H-word abilities) to avoid confusion. I would definitly remove the medium load limitation because of the medium armor/medium load issue. I might actually considder removing the load limitation entirely, as being a hardass usually does't require mobility.

Improved Spell Duration: Change it. Make it Spontaneous Extend Spell useable 1/day at 3rd, 2/day at 11th, and 3/day at 19th. Simple, elegant, balanced.

Bonus Feats: couple things here -
- I would give them Combat Casting as a bonus feat at 1st level.
- I would move the bonus Arcane Strike feat to 3rd level.
- The bonus feats at 5/10/15/20 need some slight revision. First, remove the line about fighter feats altogether. Second, my suggested revised list is as follows (not alphabetical, 'cause I'm lazy): Craft Magic Arms & Armor (possibly any item creation feat), Eschew Materials, Extra Slot, Extra Spell Knowledge, Obtain Familiar, Mobile Spell, Extraordinary Concentration, Extraordinary Spell Aim, Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spontaneous Still Spell, Spontaneous Silent Spell (possibly any spontaneous metamagic feat they qualify for, but I'm a bit trepidacious on that).
- Where is Shielded Casting from? That one isn't ringing any bells.

Arcane Grace: I like it. Couple tweaks. First, make it an Immediate Action rather than a free action. Free Actions you can generally only take on your turn, Immediate Actions you can use as an interrupt, but only 1 per round. Change the relevant stat modifier for maximum bonus to Charisma, keep the bonus type unnamed so it stacks with everything, and limit the bonus so that it only applies vs magic (eg. spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities). It doesn't make sense for Arcane Grace to save your butt vs a mundane poison, or an assassin slitting your throat.

Remove Imbue Arms & Armor. Again, they don't seem very deception based, hence no UMD, hence this ability would be useless. Can't think of anything off the top of my head to replace it with atm.

Rename Heightened Arcane Strike. I like the ability. Seems cool. Name seems a bit clunky.

Rework Magic Arsenal: as already suggested, have it be an extension of the Magic Weapon ability, rather than on its own (I mean at will.. potential yikes). I'd reword it so that the character can use 'plusses' from their GMW extension to add weapon abilities with a max plus per property of either 1/4th their class level, OR, their charisma modifier (max of +5).
So you could add a couple +1 abilities and some enhancement bonus, or maybe a high-plus ability like Speed, but little enhancement bonus. I would actually also considder placing the 'only while held, fades if lost, etc' limitation on all applications of the Magic Weapon ability. The idea being they can imbue it while its held, but they can't hand it off to anyone else.

Expand/Rework the Class Spell List:
0th Level - Remove Guidance and Virtue. Add Detect Magic, Light, Dancing Lights (<~ amazing battlefield signal spell), Mage Hand, Daze, Prestidigitation (..maybe, seems a bit frivolous for these guys), and possibly a 'weapons' version of the bard Summon Instrument cantrip. Actually, upon further review DEFINITLY do that. That's rad. Poof, I have a longsword, poof it's magical, let's rock. 3nodding

1st Level - Considder removing Magic Weapon as it seems superfulous. Possibly add Burning Hands, Ray of Enfeeblement, Endure Elements, Color Spray, Obscuring Mist (for battlefield control), and the Summon Monster line of spells. I would also possibly considder adding the Faerie Fire and Produce Flame spells from the druid list.

2nd Level - Remove Aid and replace it with False Life, and remove Daggerspell Stance as that's pretty much sole providence of the Daggerspell PrCs. Replace Fox's Cunning with Eagle's Splendor. Add Blindness/Deafness, Blur, Mirror Image, Ghoul Touch, Daze Monster, Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray, Shatter, Sound Burst, and Silence.

3rd Level -

Ah screw it. You get the idea. Broader selection of mainly arcane buffing, debuffing, battlefield control, and blasting spells.



Edit: ...okay, I spend over an hour typing this thing out and then Gaia goes down for maintenance. *eye twitch* If I lost that post someone was going to have to die.

[elindred]

thanks for the reply, peddy. i'll try to address your post point by point

i'm going to keep them as intellignce based characters, and i'll keep their skill points at 4 + int. a mageknights int probably won't be as high as a wizards, and wizards only have 5 skills that are aren't knowledges, though a mageknight has more. anyway, i want to preserve the mageknight's skilled-and-knowledgable feel.
with that in mind, i'm going to add a few knowledge skills to their list, including knowledge architecture/engineering and knowledge nobility/royalty, though i think i'll remove their athletic skills and intimidate. i'll post a final list with the revision. i already mentioned i would remove use magic device.

thanks for pointing out the missing weapon proficiency listing. it should include light and medium armour and bucklers. i won't include heavy shields, since that would completely prevent them from using that hand to cast spells with (see heavy shield description).

as for casting, i've decided to give them cleric/druid style casting, and keep their spells based on int.

as for armoured mage, i'd originally planned for them only to have light armour at 1st level, but i thought it would make them a bit weak for 1st level play.

i'd considered increasing daily uses of magic weapon by levels, but i needed to strike a balance between usefulness at 1st level and limiting its use in later levels once it's replaced by greater magic weapon. in the end, i decided a fixed 3 would be good enough to keep it from getting out of hand. i might consider a new implementation of magic arsenal though. i'll see what space there is for moving greater magic weapon once i'm done lightening the class.

i'll reexamine hardened caster. if i remove the medium load caveat, i'll have to think of another.

i suppose the description for improved spell duration is a bit long-winded, but i wanted it to stack with extend spell and similar effects. i'll take another look, and see if i can't shorten the description. if not, i might try the sudden extend thing.

i suppose i could grant combat casting at first level. the bonus feat list isn't exactly set in stone, what with so many feats being everywhere. i don't see why they shouldn't get fighter bonus feats, though, since this class is martially oriented.
shielded casting is from races of stone. it's also very good.

if i keep arcane grace, i'll likely keep it the way it is, though i might limit its usefulness to apply only to magic abilities.

i'm removing imbue arms & armour. i also might reexamine heightened arcane strike and its power, and maybe it's name.

i'll likely keep magic arsenal and the magic weapon/greater magic weapon abilities in their current forms.

i'll also consider some of your suggestions for their spell list, though i probably won't include any offensive spells. in fact, i think i might remove the ones that're already there. magic weapon is fine, if they run out of their uses per day. that summon weapon spell might be cool.

thanks for all of your feedback. i'll try and come up with a revised writeup soon.

[edit]ha! gaia just tried to eat this post, but i was smart and copied it to the clipboard first. IN YOUR FACE

[Peddy]

That's cool - mind if I yoink your base work and cook up a version based on the revisiones I suggested? I may very well use it in my games, as it's basically in-line with why I like Spellthief.

All in all though, bravo for posting this, El. Thank you very much. 3nodding

[elindred]

Peddy

That's cool - mind if I yoink your base work and cook up a version based on the revisiones I suggested? I may very well use it in my games, as it's basically in-line with why I like Spellthief.

yup, go right ahead.

Quote:

All in all though, bravo for posting this, El. Thank you very much. 3nodding

you're very welcome, and thanks for the input.

i've decided to scrap Arcane Grace and replace it with Magic Vestment as a spell-like ability 2 times per day, something i was contemplating before


and the class writing never stops! right now i'm cooking up this 20 level class with a friend. this one's based upon worshipping a giant ion cannon in space, and its powers have to do with calling its powers. at last, we can stop just joking about ion cannons and put them into implementation! such fun.

[Ebil_Fluffeh_Kitteh]

To be honest this is the third time I've looked over the post..something about it just keeps drawing me back, and I finally noticed what it was.

This class seems much like the Elven blade-singer ''Class'' of second edition..though minus the feats and all...since those werent used in second edition. The difference really IMHO is that if you're going to have a High AB, then high damage spells should be kicked down a slot...you dont want to make something that's already going to be doing alot of damage do even more unless you're going for something along the lines of an epic campaign...

This is easily tweaked though by just editing the spell list...my thoughts would be only spells for defense or support..something like an abjuration/illusion combination or some such...