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Favourite Alice in Wonderland character?

Alice 0.09375 9.4% [ 3 ]
White Rabbit 0.09375 9.4% [ 3 ]
Dinah 0 0.0% [ 0 ]
Dodo 0 0.0% [ 0 ]
Caterpillar 0 0.0% [ 0 ]
The Puppy 0 0.0% [ 0 ]
The Pigeon 0 0.0% [ 0 ]
Duchess 0 0.0% [ 0 ]
Duchess' Cook 0 0.0% [ 0 ]
Duchess' Baby 0.03125 3.1% [ 1 ]
Cheshire Cat 0.4375 43.8% [ 14 ]
Mad Hatter 0.09375 9.4% [ 3 ]
March Hare 0 0.0% [ 0 ]
Dormouse 0.03125 3.1% [ 1 ]
Bill the Lizard 0.03125 3.1% [ 1 ]
Queen of Hearts 0.0625 6.2% [ 2 ]
King of Hearts 0 0.0% [ 0 ]
Knave of Hearts 0.03125 3.1% [ 1 ]
Mouse 0.03125 3.1% [ 1 ]
Gryphon 0.03125 3.1% [ 1 ]
Mock turtle 0.03125 3.1% [ 1 ]
Total Votes:[ 32 ]
1 2 >

Kawaii Autobiographer

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No, we're not talking about the fun, colourful world of lovely people taking off their clothes in an entertaing strip tease.

No, LD we're talking burlesque in the sense of parodies, satires, jokes of all sorts that exaggerate qualities in individuals or groups with the aim of slapstick humor.

But, sometimes, you know, (and you've been there before, I believe,) someone can't handle or take a joke dished out, annnd as they say; "s**t hits the fan".

So LD, lets talk, preferably in a slightly civilized manner;

•When does a joke cross the boundary of simply being a joke to being something more sinister?
•Have you told a joke, said something silly off-hand or anything of the satirical nature that someone was offended by?
•Do you believe satire should be produced in artistic mediums even if it is obviously going to offend people? (Example, if Black Face was used in stand up comedy.)

Girl-Crazy Marshmallow

Jokes being funny has a lot to do with power. If you take a difficult topic and aim to make a joke about it, make the joke aiming upwards at who/what holds power. Jokes aiming downwards at the powerless ain't funny, they're just in bad taste or cruel, depending on the topic at hand.

Black Face, since you brought it up, is a good example of downward aim. It's got a long, mired history all tied up in how we ACTUALLY treat(ed) and perceive(d) people of color, and is visual shorthand for shitting on people who were already getting the s**t end of the stick. (Not going too far into specifics; google up more about how black vaudeville performers did blackface for context of how it was so dehumanizing that even a real black person had to wear coalblack to play a black person).

Some white person using blackface (stand up or otherwise), even claiming they're doing satire? Nope. Nope right onto a rocket off this planet. Because it's not theirs to satirize, reclaim, or do anything with. At the end of the day they are still a white person painting themselves to be a negative cartoonish caricature of a black person.

Girl-Crazy Ladykiller

I love how politically incorrect burlesque is. I'm trying to get into myself, though still don't have a full act.
I was just have this discussion with a couple of friends the other day. All of us are fairly socially aware, one is even an LGTB counselor. But we all agreed that non PC jokes within the right group of people are hilarious. You need to know your audience first though.
Aw. I thought we were going to talk about striptease.

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Wilting Roses
Aw. I thought we were going to talk about striptease.

No, not today 3nodding
I was going to be like, "I have a friend who's pretty well known in the burlesque industry! 8D"
but now I'm like...satire on it's own isn't burlesque, it's just a major element of it...so why call the thread Burlesque if that's not actually what you want to talk about?

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Fizzing Fizgig
I was going to be like, "I have a friend who's pretty well known in the burlesque industry! 8D"
but now I'm like...satire on it's own isn't burlesque, it's just a major element of it...so why call the thread Burlesque if that's not actually what you want to talk about?

Because burlesque itself is a synonym for satire in both literary and performance works.
The striptease thing has kind of turned the word into a simultaneous glamorously naughty show by default when burlesque itself is actually simply satire.

I have friends who perform in burlesque shows in Sydney emotion_kirakira
Toxilicks
Fizzing Fizgig
I was going to be like, "I have a friend who's pretty well known in the burlesque industry! 8D"
but now I'm like...satire on it's own isn't burlesque, it's just a major element of it...so why call the thread Burlesque if that's not actually what you want to talk about?

Because burlesque itself is a synonym for satire in both literary and performance works.
The striptease thing has kind of turned the word into a simultaneous glamorously naughty show by default when burlesque itself is actually simply satire.

I have friends who perform in burlesque shows in Sydney emotion_kirakira


That's true, but it would be easier to call the thread something else. Cause you know people aren't going to come in here expecting anything short of the modern day strip tease performances.

Ooh!
I only have two friends that do it. One is for the most part only locally known in the Denver area, and the other is in New York and travels around quite a bit.
Jokes become sinister, as you call it, when they actually hurt people. I'm not just talking about hurt feelings, but about jokes that reinforce cultural attitudes that then reinforce oppressive social structures. Rape jokes, for instance. Racist jokes as well.

You can't just use the "satire" defense of your horrible non-jokes. Satire has to meaningfully deconstruct what you're supposedly targeting, not reinforce it.

Conservative Defender

sanityscraps
Jokes become sinister, as you call it, when they actually hurt people. I'm not just talking about hurt feelings, but about jokes that reinforce cultural attitudes that then reinforce oppressive social structures. Rape jokes, for instance. Racist jokes as well.

You can't just use the "satire" defense of your horrible non-jokes. Satire has to meaningfully deconstruct what you're supposedly targeting, not reinforce it.
Uhh
Jokes require exaggeration to be funny
Please inform me how they reinforce oppressive social structures?
That's the dumbest thing I've read on this forum to date. lol

Firebreathing Comrade

Wilting Roses
Aw. I thought we were going to talk about striptease.


LOL that's what I thought too.
Iron Reagan
sanityscraps
Jokes become sinister, as you call it, when they actually hurt people. I'm not just talking about hurt feelings, but about jokes that reinforce cultural attitudes that then reinforce oppressive social structures. Rape jokes, for instance. Racist jokes as well.

You can't just use the "satire" defense of your horrible non-jokes. Satire has to meaningfully deconstruct what you're supposedly targeting, not reinforce it.
Uhh
Jokes require exaggeration to be funny
Please inform me how they reinforce oppressive social structures?
That's the dumbest thing I've read on this forum to date. lol


How about some science? Here's a study that says rape jokes and other sexist humor increase rape myth acceptance and rape proclivity in men.

Similarly, racism (including long term exposure to racist humor) creates CPTSD in people of color.

Conservative Defender

sanityscraps
Iron Reagan
sanityscraps
Jokes become sinister, as you call it, when they actually hurt people. I'm not just talking about hurt feelings, but about jokes that reinforce cultural attitudes that then reinforce oppressive social structures. Rape jokes, for instance. Racist jokes as well.

You can't just use the "satire" defense of your horrible non-jokes. Satire has to meaningfully deconstruct what you're supposedly targeting, not reinforce it.
Uhh
Jokes require exaggeration to be funny
Please inform me how they reinforce oppressive social structures?
That's the dumbest thing I've read on this forum to date. lol


How about some science? Here's a study that says rape jokes and other sexist humor increase rape myth acceptance and rape proclivity in men.

Similarly, racism (including long term exposure to racist humor) creates CPTSD in people of color.

I'm sure it does, oh and did you hear that women can make women pregnant now!? Yeah, a liberal scientist found that out! How credible any source with ".edu" is!

Also, I Ctrl+F'd and search for the word "joke" and "humor" and didn't find anything. That article was talking about hardcore "you're black get away from me you thief" racism, not friendly "a black guy walks into a bar" racism. Way to go champ, is there anything else you'd like to add to help further discredit your claims?
Iron Reagan
sanityscraps
Iron Reagan
sanityscraps
Jokes become sinister, as you call it, when they actually hurt people. I'm not just talking about hurt feelings, but about jokes that reinforce cultural attitudes that then reinforce oppressive social structures. Rape jokes, for instance. Racist jokes as well.

You can't just use the "satire" defense of your horrible non-jokes. Satire has to meaningfully deconstruct what you're supposedly targeting, not reinforce it.
Uhh
Jokes require exaggeration to be funny
Please inform me how they reinforce oppressive social structures?
That's the dumbest thing I've read on this forum to date. lol


How about some science? Here's a study that says rape jokes and other sexist humor increase rape myth acceptance and rape proclivity in men.

Similarly, racism (including long term exposure to racist humor) creates CPTSD in people of color.

I'm sure it does, oh and did you hear that women can make women pregnant now!? Yeah, a liberal scientist found that out! How credible any source with ".edu" is!

Also, I Ctrl+F'd and search for the word "joke" and "humor" and didn't find anything. That article was talking about hardcore "you're black get away from me you thief" racism, not friendly "a black guy walks into a bar" racism. Way to go champ, is there anything else you'd like to add to help further discredit your claims?


But you would have found the word "microaggression." A microagression is any perceived "small" racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. thing someone says or does, which includes a joke made in poor taste with a person's identity as the punchline. Nice job reading. CTRL-F really doesn't do you much good. If you don't think racist jokes count as racism, you're even more of an idiot than I thought.

If you'd like to try and disprove the science, try and find an actual study with good methodology to back your claims up. I'm sure you'll find none. Your cognitive dissonance is hilarious.

Conservative Defender

sanityscraps
Iron Reagan
sanityscraps
Iron Reagan
sanityscraps
Jokes become sinister, as you call it, when they actually hurt people. I'm not just talking about hurt feelings, but about jokes that reinforce cultural attitudes that then reinforce oppressive social structures. Rape jokes, for instance. Racist jokes as well.

You can't just use the "satire" defense of your horrible non-jokes. Satire has to meaningfully deconstruct what you're supposedly targeting, not reinforce it.
Uhh
Jokes require exaggeration to be funny
Please inform me how they reinforce oppressive social structures?
That's the dumbest thing I've read on this forum to date. lol


How about some science? Here's a study that says rape jokes and other sexist humor increase rape myth acceptance and rape proclivity in men.

Similarly, racism (including long term exposure to racist humor) creates CPTSD in people of color.

I'm sure it does, oh and did you hear that women can make women pregnant now!? Yeah, a liberal scientist found that out! How credible any source with ".edu" is!

Also, I Ctrl+F'd and search for the word "joke" and "humor" and didn't find anything. That article was talking about hardcore "you're black get away from me you thief" racism, not friendly "a black guy walks into a bar" racism. Way to go champ, is there anything else you'd like to add to help further discredit your claims?


But you would have found the word "microaggression." A microagression is any perceived "small" racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. thing someone says or does, which includes a joke made in poor taste with a person's identity as the punchline. Nice job reading. CTRL-F really doesn't do you much good. If you don't think racist jokes count as racism, you're even more of an idiot than I thought.

If you'd like to try and disprove the science, try and find an actual study with good methodology to back your claims up. I'm sure you'll find none. Your cognitive dissonance is hilarious.

Microaggressions have nothing to do with jokes and everything to do with everyday interaction. Your initial claim was that long term exposure to racial jokes creates PTSD in 'people of color'.

Lets look at what a microaggression is.

Microaggression
Microaggression is the idea that specific interactions between those of different races, cultures, or genders can be interpreted as small acts of mostly non-physical aggression coined by Chester M. Pierce[1] in 1970. Micro-inequities and microaffirmations were additionally named by Mary Rowe of MIT in 1973, in her work she also describes micro-aggressions inclusive of sex and gender. Sue et al. (2007) describe microaggressions as, “brief and commonplace daily verbal, behavioral, or environmental indignities, whether intentional or unintentional, that communicate hostile, derogatory, or negative racial slights and insults toward people of color.”[2]


A racial microaggression would be, for example, going up to a black male and saying a racial slur as I pass. Another microaggression would be a Mexican or Black male coming up to me for no rhyme or reason and calling me "white boy".

What ISN'T a microaggression is me hanging out with my friends telling racial jokes, black, mexican, whatever, and they being okay and secure with me telling them, or I being okay and secure with them tell them. Intent and context means nothing to you, clearly; or else you'd realize the literal falsehood in your claims. Not the source's claims, but specifically your claims.

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