Water: Commodity or Human Right?

Water?

Total Votes:

[ 0 ]

This poll closed on December 6, 2004.
No longer accepting new votes.

[kiironobara]

We Americans think little to nothing about buying a bottle of water from the store. We rarely think about outsourcing and privatizing our utilities, including water.

However, a huge battle is going on regarding exactly this. In many cases, third world (under-developed, etc) countries are forced by the IMF and World Bank to privatize all state sectors, including water. In Bolivia, this led to a 300% increase in the price of water, resulting in riots and clashes between civilians and the military. A desert state in India is fighting against the government's attempt to privatize all water, including that in artificial ponds built by locals for the community interest.

Is water something that should be commodified? Should it, like many other things (food) be a source of profit for multinational corporations. Is this in the best interest of the utilities industry, for the sake of competition?

Or is access to water a basic human right? Should everyone have the right to water, rich or poor? Do citizens in a community know how to best distribute water, as they know the needs of their fellows, and would a multinational, unfamiliar corporation takeover harm the community?

[TatteredAngel]

kiironobara

Do citizens in a community know how to best distribute water, as they know the needs of their fellows, and would a multinational, unfamiliar corporation takeover harm the community?

I'm taking just a portion of this since I'm at work and don't have time to address everything. Do citizens know how to best distribute water? No. Where I live, water rights are a big big deal. It's a desert city, and water use is regulated, but not as much as it should be. Our aquifer is dwindling and will run out entirely in 30-50 years, roughly. It is the citizens shooting themselves in the foot, because they refuse to understand that there is a looming water crisis.

Here comes the "but". Do I think a corporation would handle our water better? No. In both cases, it's a matter of doling out mass consumption without addressing the problems with the mass consumption in the first place.

Water and water rights are important, but they can go downhill in anyone's hands- not just the big dogs.

[SoViEtTaNkT34]

kiironobara

We Americans think little to nothing about buying a bottle of water from the store. We rarely think about outsourcing and privatizing our utilities, including water.

However, a huge battle is going on regarding exactly this. In many cases, third world (under-developed, etc) countries are forced by the IMF and World Bank to privatize all state sectors, including water. In Bolivia, this led to a 300% increase in the price of water, resulting in riots and clashes between civilians and the military. A desert state in India is fighting against the government's attempt to privatize all water, including that in artificial ponds built by locals for the community interest.

Is water something that should be commodified? Should it, like many other things (food) be a source of profit for multinational corporations. Is this in the best interest of the utilities industry, for the sake of competition?

Or is access to water a basic human right? Should everyone have the right to water, rich or poor? Do citizens in a community know how to best distribute water, as they know the needs of their fellows, and would a multinational, unfamiliar corporation takeover harm the community?

HAHAHAHHAHA.... sry to say but thats capitialism at its best. If your for capitialism it is just that the sake of competition.

Your forgetting especially in the United states water isnt a basic human right you pay for it. Its not a new thing for capitialist nations to starve there citizens on the sake of profit, look at the industrial revolution thats capitialism at its best.

It is the corperations in a Capitialist nation that control the community, not the community controlling the coperations, when prices are raised we pay it, we dont rebel on a massive scale because i guess well the corperations know best even though there only looking to keep the same profit as they did the year before. Corperations dont give a damn about the average worker or citizen all they care for is profit.

If anything water should Socialized but see thats another problem in the United states we dont tend to like the government having control of anything only corperations.

[A Soporific]

Nothing that is tangible is a "right". That is, quite simply, there is a finite amount of it and that amount needs to be regulated to ensure efficient use. So, yes, it is a commodity.

Does that mean that I support absolute privatization of all things? As a capitalistic economist, I say "no". Water, electricy, and a number of other utilities have too high of a fixed cost for free enterprize to be effective in acchieving its ends. Water is in a situation of being a "Natural Monopoly" in the areas that you cited above. In order for the resource to be used effeciently, there needs to be a higher degree of control than free enterprize allows for.


And Mr. T34, I argue that the Industrialization occured under a Mercentilistic mind-set. It was the rare factory which worked with aggrogate demand in their wage system, which is a basis of Captialistic Theory. Besides, you should have seen some of the factories that the Soviets made the Poles work in... no wonder their industrial workers overthrew the Communist government there to set up a Capitialistic Democracy.

[SoViEtTaNkT34]

A Soporific

Nothing that is tangible is a "right". That is, quite simply, there is a finite amount of it and that amount needs to be regulated to ensure efficient use. So, yes, it is a commodity.

Does that mean that I support absolute privatization of all things? As a capitalistic economist, I say "no". Water, electricy, and a number of other utilities have too high of a fixed cost for free enterprize to be effective in acchieving its ends. Water is in a situation of being a "Natural Monopoly" in the areas that you cited above. In order for the resource to be used effeciently, there needs to be a higher degree of control than free enterprize allows for.


And Mr. T34, I argue that the Industrialization occured under a Mercentilistic mind-set. It was the rare factory which worked with aggrogate demand in their wage system, which is a basis of Captialistic Theory. Besides, you should have seen some of the factories that the Soviets made the Poles work in... no wonder their industrial workers overthrew the Communist government there to set up a Capitialistic Democracy.

ahh yes but your forgetting that The Soviet union was not communist nor is china its sad really, because they became exactly what Marx, Engles, Lenin, Trotsky, Nikolai Bukharin etc didnt want. The few gaining the benifits while the masses remain poor or continue to remain poor.

Communist dictatorships are not for the people, most people believe that Communism is a government, while communism is an economic theory or in some cases an evolutionary theory.

This is due to the fact that in theory a industrialized capitalist nation with the fued between the proletarians and the bourgeoisie's not from a country of peasents but that is marxism. Also Russia had a bourgeoisie class forming but it was still mainly the autocracy, the problem that lenin faced was that a revolution was going to occur with him or without him in my opinion because remember the original party was split in two even before the october revolution.

Lenin re-vised the theory with help from Trotsky and Nikolai Bukharin such on his views on imperialism which are true even today. The united states may not have as many of oppressed workers but we have now moved our labor to other countries who are oppressed because of our country, such as the so called Communistic admin in china were in actuality China exploits its workers to extremes.

What you should be saying is that communism is against Capitialism not democracy infact communism is suppose to be a democracy at the highest level.

[Prettz3003]

Wow...

It's WATER. You NEED water to survive. Therefore, it should NOT be controlled or tampered with by anyone. It should be off limits.

[A Soporific]

I wasn't talking about the USSR at all. You should read up on the Solidarity movement in Poland, the irony. I am aware than the Stalinist Soviet States weren't the idealistic form of Communism, but they are the only real examples I have to work with. On the same note, the instances that you are attacking at this point happen to be the exact same. There is bound to be pain when the social, economic, and political situation changes as much as fast as it did during the Industrial Revolution, to foist the blame for the unaviodable results of this change on Captialism is bordering on irresponsible. There was far too much government interferance and control over the Industrial Revolution to be what any economist of the day would show as an example of Captialism. Also, the theories of Social Darwinism and Scientific Racism first came to the fore at this time period, and only aggrivated the problem.

[kiironobara]

Prettz3003

Wow...

It's WATER. You NEED water to survive. Therefore, it should NOT be controlled or tampered with by anyone. It should be off limits.

I agree completely. However, the newest idea in neoliberal globalization is that of privatizing water, among other things. It's not even only in poorer nations. It's happening right here in the US.

Can you imagine a dehydrated, half-dead man in a foreign desert finding an oasis and being forced to pay for the water to save his life? You won't find THAT in Hollywood. Maybe Monty Python because the idea is so ridiculous, but still.

I suggest watching the Frontline documentary, Thirst.

[VladmirKovolchenkov]

Water isnt expensive. Go to your local pond or something. Not hard...Water is a neccessaty..not a right. No one can hold you from having something that makes up 70% of your body fluids.

[SoViEtTaNkT34]

A Soporific

I wasn't talking about the USSR at all. You should read up on the Solidarity movement in Poland, the irony. I am aware than the Stalinist Soviet States weren't the idealistic form of Communism, but they are the only real examples I have to work with. On the same note, the instances that you are attacking at this point happen to be the exact same. There is bound to be pain when the social, economic, and political situation changes as much as fast as it did during the Industrial Revolution, to foist the blame for the unaviodable results of this change on Captialism is bordering on irresponsible. There was far too much government interferance and control over the Industrial Revolution to be what any economist of the day would show as an example of Captialism. Also, the theories of Social Darwinism and Scientific Racism first came to the fore at this time period, and only aggrivated the problem.

Oh i totally agree with any political situation changes as fast as some of them do, whenever political changes happen too fast it always ends up for disaster i mean in my own personal beliefs a capitialist country would have to become socialist then communist, the change would have to be gradual.

But Capitialism was not just in the united states you have Britian and France as well during that time period and were the basis of marxist theory but those factories were even worse then the ones we had during the industrial revolution.

[kiironobara]

VladmirKovolchenkov

Water isnt expensive. Go to your local pond or something. Not hard...Water is a neccessaty..not a right. No one can hold you from having something that makes up 70% of your body fluids.

Except that corporations want to control the right to take water from that pond.

[Prettz3003]

VladmirKovolchenkov

Water isnt expensive. Go to your local pond or something. Not hard...Water is a neccessaty..not a right. No one can hold you from having something that makes up 70% of your body fluids.

Go ahead. Drink that POND water and watch how fast your body DIES.

You need GOOD water to survive. Which is why NO private sector should hold the monopoly on water. I mean, sure, bottled water is ok, but you still shouldn't have to pay EXORBANT amounts for just CLEAN tap water.

You can only live DAYS without water. You NEED good, clean water.

[stalebsicuit]

its not a right, more like a necessity


but its one that is constantly looked for, and thus causes problems, some areas have it in great amounts, others dont, and for those who live in the scarcer regions..........well sucks to be you, doesnt mean the others should start exporting it to those areas, but if those people choose to leave heir native land and migrate to a place with the element more abundant and readily available, then it will be very likely they will get some

[VladmirKovolchenkov]

kiironobara

VladmirKovolchenkov

Water isnt expensive. Go to your local pond or something. Not hard...Water is a neccessaty..not a right. No one can hold you from having something that makes up 70% of your body fluids.

Except that corporations want to control the right to take water from that pond.

They won't get it. Unless they want another revolution.

And PRettz..I drink from my local pond. I'm still fine.

[kiironobara]

VladmirKovolchenkov

kiironobara

VladmirKovolchenkov

Water isnt expensive. Go to your local pond or something. Not hard...Water is a neccessaty..not a right. No one can hold you from having something that makes up 70% of your body fluids.

Except that corporations want to control the right to take water from that pond.

They won't get it. Unless they want another revolution.

And PRettz..I drink from my local pond. I'm still fine.

They managed to in a town in California. If the citizens had revolted in the true way instead of getting a petition going, maybe they would have won back their water, but they decided to be nice and failed.

Face it. Most Americans are too soft to participate in a revolution.