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Familiar Smoker

Let me start by stating two things upfront:

1) I'm a rambler..I ramble, sorry bout that...

2) Keep in mind that I DO love this country (which I will get to in a min), and it is because of this love that I criticize it, I'm trying to be constructive, not destructive in my criticism.

Like I said, I love this country. To be specific I love the idea this country was founded on: fighting what we perceive as injustice. Now, that injustice may seem a little ridiculous to us today, in the case of the American Revolution (the American Revolution and the American War for Independence weren't really the same thing for the record) we were largely fighting for the right to smuggle goods across the border because we didn't want to pay a tax for a debt which we helped to accrue without a say in how we were taxed...also the injustice of not being able to discriminate against Catholics...but that's beside the point (After all we can't really expect to apply our morals and values to a society which existed 250 years ago and expect them to come up smelling like roses). The point shouldn't be who's values were more justified by today's standards, or even who was really right or who was wrong in the end, the point is that they saw these things as injustices which needed to be corrected.

America's story isn't that special, we certainly aren't the only country born out of the need to fight injustice, but this IS our history, this is the thread that first tied us together as a people.

I feel as though we have largely lost that rebel, fight injustice no matter the cost, attitude. We still had it during the Monroe administration when we claimed the right to protect countries on our side of the world from the much more powerful and wealthy European countries. We still had it when we literally went to war with Mexico over the Texans right to leave Mexico and become part to the United States (I know it's much more complicated than that, but I doubt you want me to expound on every war America's ever been in), I would say we lost it sometime around the American Civil War era...after all, that's the point at which fighting what we saw as injustice made us "The Man", coming down on people who honestly thought that they were fighting tyranny as well. Since then we've only fought injustice with a certain level of reluctance...until recently when we've been willfully ignoring it all together and fighting wars that just don't make any damn sense because "Trying to justify my actions by the principles we all share on some level makes my brain feel funny, but hey, we gotta shoot somethin right?!".

The truth is, of course, much more complicated than that, and it has to do with how our culture has changed in recent decades and blah blah blah, you don't really care about this, do you?

I'm not saying that we as a people don't still feel the need to fight injustice, we most certainly do, and we do it regularly (though perhaps not as often or as effectively as we should) but our country, as a whole, no longer seems to represent that idea. The American flag is no longer a symbol to rally behind, but as a symbol of modern imperialism and injustice to be fought against. We have become the very embodiment of "The Man". That's fine for the so called "Baby Boomer" generation, but I think we can do better now, I think we WANT to do better, I think that we, as a society, now want to fight injustice in the world, even if it comes from us.

A surprising example of this is Anonymous. Now, Anonymous is a rather complex entity that embodies more of a concept than an actual group of people, but I really don't want to get into that right now...love 'em or hate 'em, no one can deny that Anonymous fights what it perceives as injustice in the world, even against it's self...it's also quite possibly the worlds greatest troll.... After Anonymous was accused of attacking PSN, thus causing collateral damage to everyday people, it had something of a moment of reflection, where it was simultaneously weighing the need for lulz and the need to do right by the innocent and not become that which they fought. The results of that reflection remain to be seen for the most part, but the fact that this even occurred to Anonymous is a positive thing.

So basically what I'm saying is: The ideals that America was founded on are universal, we all want each other to live happy, productive lives, free from injustice and inequality (unless you're a sociopath I guess...). Why then do we hesitate? Why then do we allow ourselves to be pandered to, all the while most of us being aware that we are being fed bread and circuses and bull s**t. Yet we accept it, or at least do noting to stop it...why?

TL;DR:

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America is truly exceptional, geographically. You have two oceans and functional ports in both. You can trade freely with both Europe and the Pacific Rim. You have natural resources and a cultural mix sufficient to innovate and build a bright future. You even have the land needed to support a surplus population larger than your own. Those are heavy advantages, and not worth selling at any price to any foreign investor or corrupt politician. Recognize your Glory, America, lest it be stolen, squandered, and sold to the highest bidder.
That was a great song.

Familiar Smoker

N3bu
That was a great song.

Led Zeppelin was a great band, great songs are to be expected.

Dapper Reveler

I had a country oh so fair, but Gollum and the evil one crept up and slipped away with her.

Familiar Smoker

bannedmanswag03
TANRailgun

So basically what I'm saying is: The ideals that America was founded on are universal, we all want each other to live happy, productive lives, free from injustice and inequality (unless you're a sociopath I guess...). Why then do we hesitate? Why then do we allow ourselves to be pandered to, all the while most of us being aware that we are being fed bread and circuses and bull s**t. Yet we accept it, or at least do noting to stop it...why?

People are too wrapped up in their own personal bullshit to actually do anything. Even I, whose life's ambition is to die in battle against the government, still feel like I should do more stuff before I go ahead and start buying weapons.
Protest can take many forms, especially with the internet. If it ever were to "come to blows" as it were, I think the majority of the fighting would involve cyber warfare, rather than much, if any, physical violence. The internet is powerful, and when it has a mind to it can come together and articulate it's self into a force which transcends all laws, borders, and attempts at suppression...It's already shown it can do this, that it's influence can be so great as to be beyond any governments ability to control it.

Learning Python may end up being more useful to you than owning an AK.

Aged Lunatic

Avgvsto
I had a country oh so fair, but Gollum and the evil one crept up and slipped away with her.


Ugh, but you found it in the distant land of MORDOR? I wouldn't touch anything from that place!

Mega Noob

GunsmithKitten
Avgvsto
I had a country oh so fair, but Gollum and the evil one crept up and slipped away with her.


Ugh, but you found it in the distant land of MORDOR? I wouldn't touch anything from that place!

You don't simply pander to Mordor.

Familiar Smoker

bannedmanswag03
TANRailgun
bannedmanswag03
TANRailgun

So basically what I'm saying is: The ideals that America was founded on are universal, we all want each other to live happy, productive lives, free from injustice and inequality (unless you're a sociopath I guess...). Why then do we hesitate? Why then do we allow ourselves to be pandered to, all the while most of us being aware that we are being fed bread and circuses and bull s**t. Yet we accept it, or at least do noting to stop it...why?

People are too wrapped up in their own personal bullshit to actually do anything. Even I, whose life's ambition is to die in battle against the government, still feel like I should do more stuff before I go ahead and start buying weapons.
Protest can take many forms, especially with the internet. If it ever were to "come to blows" as it were, I think the majority of the fighting would involve cyber warfare, rather than much, if any, physical violence. The internet is powerful, and when it has a mind to it can come together and articulate it's self into a force which transcends all laws, borders, and attempts at suppression...It's already shown it can do this, that it's influence can be so great as to be beyond any governments ability to control it.

Learning Python may end up being more useful to you than owning an AK.

Cyber-dissent may prove ineffective without the means to resist when they kick your door down for it.
You can't stop the internet, it's an idea, which spreads like a virus. The only way to stop it, is to take it away...which we have proven, during the Arab spring when Egypt and Tunisia tried just that, isn't possible anymore. So long as there is access somewhere, there's a way to get access anywhere. We have a legion at our disposal, we have more people unified by one system and one idea, than they have black bags.
Ehh...America lost its soul over the course of time.

At the start it may very well have been all about "truth, justice, and fighting the good fight" but gradually the soul was lost and American became another soulless super power with its own interests.

If what you say is true then America gradually lost its soul after a short while.
-At first it was fighting the good fight.
-Then there arose Non-interventionism and Isolationism which felt that America should take care of its own problems.
-Then when WWII started and America was dragged into that Non-interventionism ended
-With the constant threat of the dreaded shadow of Communism looming over head America fully lost its soul. Non-Interventionism was replaced with Containment and Realpolitik.

Containment resulted in the policy of always trying to prevent the Soviet Union from spreading by intervening through the various proxies'
RealPolitik (which still basically runs America) resulted in America allying itself with nasty dictators as long as it was done in order to prevent the spread of Communism. Hence, the support of the radical mujahideen, the support of Saddam's Ba'thists

Familiar Smoker

bannedmanswag03
TANRailgun
bannedmanswag03
TANRailgun
bannedmanswag03
TANRailgun

So basically what I'm saying is: The ideals that America was founded on are universal, we all want each other to live happy, productive lives, free from injustice and inequality (unless you're a sociopath I guess...). Why then do we hesitate? Why then do we allow ourselves to be pandered to, all the while most of us being aware that we are being fed bread and circuses and bull s**t. Yet we accept it, or at least do noting to stop it...why?

People are too wrapped up in their own personal bullshit to actually do anything. Even I, whose life's ambition is to die in battle against the government, still feel like I should do more stuff before I go ahead and start buying weapons.
Protest can take many forms, especially with the internet. If it ever were to "come to blows" as it were, I think the majority of the fighting would involve cyber warfare, rather than much, if any, physical violence. The internet is powerful, and when it has a mind to it can come together and articulate it's self into a force which transcends all laws, borders, and attempts at suppression...It's already shown it can do this, that it's influence can be so great as to be beyond any governments ability to control it.

Learning Python may end up being more useful to you than owning an AK.

Cyber-dissent may prove ineffective without the means to resist when they kick your door down for it.
You can't stop the internet, it's an idea, which spreads like a virus. The only way to stop it, is to take it away...which we have proven, during the Arab spring when Egypt and Tunisia tried just that, isn't possible anymore. So long as there is access somewhere, there's a way to get access anywhere. We have a legion at our disposal, we have more people unified by one system and one idea, than they have black bags.

Egypt and Tunisia don't have the power or centralization that the US does. If the government wanted to shut down the internet, they could. Hell, if it came to it, they'd shut down the power and water.
And when the rest of the world suddenly sees America's internet traffic drop to zero (something which would never happen, as America's economy literally couldn't survive in it's current form without the internet), they would probably do the same thing they did during the Arab spring: find a way to get people connected again. After all, we all know bad things happen in the dark.

Even if the US is a centralized power, the internet is not, there isn't a switch you can just push to turn it off all over the world, the only way to take it off and keep it off would be to completely destroy the entire infrastructure and somehow manage to prevent a new one from being formed...which is probably impossible.

Edit: Basically what I'm saying is that we as individuals don't really have the power to subvert the government, but we as a collective, connected by the internet and other communication devices, most certainly do. Which is something we as a culture are only just starting to realize.

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