Top 5 Worst Religions

[Arcoon Effox]

Xiam

Arcoon Effox

I suppose some people could call that a "religion", but the term is being used very loosely.

So has "literally" in recent times. Against which I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle...

I feel your pain.

That and the over- and misuse of "epic".

Xiam

...the English language is not set in stone. It's not a strict set of rules like math. Meaning is determined by the people...

If that's the case, why does it bug you when people misuse "literally"...?

...But seriously, I do get what you mean, but words do have meanings, and it bothers me when people (read: "Christian apologists", etc) redefine words to suit their convenience/arguments/etc.

Xiam

Arcoon Effox

Xiam

Arcoon Effox

Atheism is not a worldview or system, nor does it combine a set of beliefs, traditions, rituals, and community structures like religions do. Interestingly enough, if atheism were a religion then atheists couldn't exist, since atheism is the absence of belief in gods.

...Here's the thing. (Atheism is) a view on the world. A view that does not include the belief of god. It's an actual, real way that you view the world. I don't know how else I can explain how this is literally a worldview.

Okay, you have me there, since by definition atheism is a personal world-view, but when I used the word above, I was invoking the definition used by religious people when they talk about atheists... which is to say "a substitute word for 'religion'".

That's certainly not how I use it. I use it literally. I mean, again, language is always changing, but for my intents and purposes... worldview = view of the world.

...point is, it has to do with one's perception of the world, and incorporates everything from experience to cumulative knowledge as taught by books, friends, parents, teachers, elders, complete strangers... you get my point, right?

Yes. By your definition (the correct one), atheism is a world-view... but that still doesn't make it a religion in and of itself.

Xiam

Arcoon Effox

Xiam

Arcoon Effox

Xiam

Or it could mean they consider Protestants worse than Catholics or Orthodox.

Isn't that basically what I said...?

What you said is basically that they didn't consider them. What I said is that they probably considered them, and decided they weren't nearly as bad.

stare ...Okay, that is what I literally said, but it wasn't what I meant by it.

Well how am I supposed to know that?

Indeed... I guess I didn't word it well enough. Let me see if I can clarify.

Kaworu placed Protestantism en masse as an "honorary mention" in his Top 5 Worst Religions list, but didn't include Catholics/Orthodox in that mention. To me that suggested he holds Protestantism in a place of at least mild contempt; one which he does not hold for Catholics or the Orthodox Church (else he would have said 'Christianity' instead of 'Protestantism').

I was indicating that I found it hypocritical to hold one group of Christians in disdain while not feeling the same about a different group of Christians, since they're both Christian.

Xiam

Even shitty points are points.

Not unless they contribute something to the conversation, IMO.

Xiam

Arcoon Effox

Xiam

... do you dislike religion?

No. In fact, I find them incredibly fascinating from an anthropological point of view, as it's interesting to see where people have come from, why they embrace some mythologies but reject others, etc.

What I dislike is people using such things to pretentiously think that they are better than others, or to condescend to others by tell them that their own beliefs about (insert subject) holds more credence than someone else's because of something or other they claim their god(s) said.

That said: Did you agree with my assessment about Kaworu's comment being hyperbole? You didn't really say so one way or another.

Hyperbole yes. As someone who generally comes to threads to challenge whichever position, I often find myself the target of assumptions that I am theist (or atheist) depending on the person I'm challenging... and er, I can usually get heated in my assumption about other people. I don't know where this is going.

Your words, or our conversation?

Xiam

But yeah, it's irritating when people get sort of attached to a worldview, and just sort of... get twitchy about it.

You mean like Young Earth Creationists...? ninja

Xiam

Arcoon Effox

Xiam

...the Catholic Church has had a lot of cultural and scientific influence upon Western Civilization (though the relationship with science has been a bit shakey).

Religions such as Islam have also made numerous contributions to society (particularly in the fields of mathematics and astronomy), yet they never seem to get as much credit.

Oh hell yeah. It's a shame really. And I kind of wish there was more of it in modern times. Learning is awesome (and IMO there is no reason why science can't actually strengthen a person's faith. Provided it's not some insane faith that tries to mutilate science to make s**t up as they go along and pretend it's supported by evidence, of course).

You mean like Young Earth Creationists...? ninja

Xiam

Arcoon Effox

Xiam

I'm not familiar with this "Atheist Authorities Fallacy." Is this regarding the fact that there are very outspoken "pop atheists," like Dawkins and his ilk?

No; it has to do with the Christian trope that all atheists are amoral, and that people like Hitler/Stalin/Mao/Pol Pot/etc did the s**t they did because they were atheists.

Well that's ridiculous. The "atheists are immoral" thing. My argument would be more that "people are horrible no matter what their worldview happens to be." People are going to find excuses to ******** each other over.

But by that same token, decent people can be found in all sorts. And I'm always eager to argue the whole "Morality can only come from God" bullshit. Humans are social creatures. It's in our instinct to empathize and sympathize. Those who don't usually have something wrong with them much worse than atheism.

Indeed.

...Now, I'd like to direct your attention to Kaworu's most recent post, directly above this one, wherein he continues to engage in this pseudo-fallacy.

Xiam

Arcoon Effox

I think I get what you're saying, and yes, there are some particularly loud atheists out there, just as there are some particularly loud Christians/Muslims/etc out there. I think the reason why certain atheists approach the level of zeal you're talking about is because, unlike religions, they have something tangible and scientifically supported to back up what they're saying... whereas religions involving gods and whatnot largely have old books and assertions that things of supernatural nature are real in spite of evidence showing they're not.

Regarding Biblical historical accounts and pseudoscience, sure.

Well, that's mostly what they're arguing against, so, yeah.

[Xiam]

Arcoon Effox

Xiam

...the English language is not set in stone. It's not a strict set of rules like math. Meaning is determined by the people...

If that's the case, why does it bug you when people misuse "literally"...?

Pet peeve, mostly.

Arcoon Effox

Xiam

Arcoon Effox

Xiam

Arcoon Effox

Atheism is not a worldview or system, nor does it combine a set of beliefs, traditions, rituals, and community structures like religions do. Interestingly enough, if atheism were a religion then atheists couldn't exist, since atheism is the absence of belief in gods.

...Here's the thing. (Atheism is) a view on the world. A view that does not include the belief of god. It's an actual, real way that you view the world. I don't know how else I can explain how this is literally a worldview.

Okay, you have me there, since by definition atheism is a personal world-view, but when I used the word above, I was invoking the definition used by religious people when they talk about atheists... which is to say "a substitute word for 'religion'".

That's certainly not how I use it. I use it literally. I mean, again, language is always changing, but for my intents and purposes... worldview = view of the world.

...point is, it has to do with one's perception of the world, and incorporates everything from experience to cumulative knowledge as taught by books, friends, parents, teachers, elders, complete strangers... you get my point, right?

Yes. By your definition (the correct one), atheism is a world-view... but that still doesn't make it a religion in and of itself.

Nah. Lots of things aren't religions, in fact - but people sure love to treat those things as religions. Especially the people who follow those things.

Check out the Doctor Who fandom sometime. I feel like I'm surrounded by crazy people.

Arcoon Effox

Kaworu placed Protestantism en masse as an "honorary mention" in his Top 5 Worst Religions list, but didn't include Catholics/Orthodox in that mention. To me that suggested he holds Protestantism in a place of at least mild contempt; one which he does not hold for Catholics or the Orthodox Church (else he would have said 'Christianity' instead of 'Protestantism').

I was indicating that I found it hypocritical to hold one group of Christians in disdain while not feeling the same about a different group of Christians, since they're both Christian.

To be fair to him... I've met people (Protestants, mostly) who consider Protestant Christianity to be the only Christianity, and Catholicism to be some sort of Pagan religion. I don't think they're even aware that Orthodox exists.

Arcoon Effox

Xiam

Arcoon Effox

That said: Did you agree with my assessment about Kaworu's comment being hyperbole? You didn't really say so one way or another.

Hyperbole yes. As someone who generally comes to threads to challenge whichever position, I often find myself the target of assumptions that I am theist (or atheist) depending on the person I'm challenging... and er, I can usually get heated in my assumption about other people. I don't know where this is going.

Your words, or our conversation?

My words. I tend to get tangled in my own ramblings.

Arcoon Effox

Xiam

But yeah, it's irritating when people get sort of attached to a worldview, and just sort of... get twitchy about it.

You mean like Young Earth Creationists...? ninja

Sure. Everybody really, though. I don't like to discriminate on this kind of thing.

Arcoon Effox

Xiam

Arcoon Effox

Xiam

...the Catholic Church has had a lot of cultural and scientific influence upon Western Civilization (though the relationship with science has been a bit shakey).

Religions such as Islam have also made numerous contributions to society (particularly in the fields of mathematics and astronomy), yet they never seem to get as much credit.

Oh hell yeah. It's a shame really. And I kind of wish there was more of it in modern times. Learning is awesome (and IMO there is no reason why science can't actually strengthen a person's faith. Provided it's not some insane faith that tries to mutilate science to make s**t up as they go along and pretend it's supported by evidence, of course).

You mean like Young Earth Creationists...? ninja

Exactly like Young Earth Creationists, yes.

Arcoon Effox

...Now, I'd like to direct your attention to Kaworu's most recent post, directly above this one, wherein he continues to engage in this pseudo-fallacy.

Did he? ******** sake, Kaworu, I can't defend you if you're just blatantly full of s**t.

[Kaworu 17]

Arcoon Effox

...Now, I'd like to direct your attention to Kaworu's most recent post, directly above this one, wherein he continues to engage in this pseudo-fallacy.

You do know what the word "pseudo" means, right?

I don't think you're using it correctly.

[Arcoon Effox]

Xiam

...point is, it has to do with one's perception of the world, and incorporates everything from experience to cumulative knowledge as taught by books, friends, parents, teachers, elders, complete strangers... you get my point, right?

Yes. By your definition (the correct one), atheism is a world-view... but that still doesn't make it a religion in and of itself.Nah. Lots of things aren't religions, in fact - but people sure love to treat those things as religions.Likewise, people who are indoctrinated in religion tend to see everything which resembles one as being one, whether or not it actually is.

Xiam

Check out the Doctor Who fandom sometime. I feel like I'm surrounded by crazy people.

I keep meaning to start watching the show, but have no idea where to start. Hasn't it been on for decades, or something? That's a lot of stuff to catch up on...

Xiam

Arcoon Effox

Kaworu placed Protestantism en masse as an "honorary mention" in his Top 5 Worst Religions list, but didn't include Catholics/Orthodox in that mention. To me that suggested he holds Protestantism in a place of at least mild contempt; one which he does not hold for Catholics or the Orthodox Church (else he would have said 'Christianity' instead of 'Protestantism').

I was indicating that I found it hypocritical to hold one group of Christians in disdain while not feeling the same about a different group of Christians, since they're both Christian.

To be fair to him... I've met people (Protestants, mostly) who consider Protestant Christianity to be the only Christianity, and Catholicism to be some sort of Pagan religion.

Actually, that's a great thing to point out... because they're engaging in the same fallacy, too.

Xiam

I don't think they're even aware that Orthodox exists.

I don't think many people east of the Urals are aware that Orthodox exists, really...

[Arcoon Effox]

Kaworu 17

Arcoon Effox

...Now, I'd like to direct your attention to Kaworu's most recent post, directly above this one, wherein he continues to engage in this pseudo-fallacy.

You do know what the word "pseudo" means, right?

Pseudo
adjective

not genuine; sham.

"we are talking about real journalists and not the pseudo kind"

Kaworu 17

I don't think you're using it correctly.

Thank you for your opinion. It has been filed under "pointless strawman nonsense".

That said: the "Atheist Atrocity Fallacy" it is not, in and of itself, a formal or informal fallacy, but rather a collection of them which are almost always invoked as part of the argument it addresses. Since it's not a "proper" fallacy, but is referred to as such by the author of the article, I called it a pseudo-fallacy.

That said: Whether or not it is or is not an accurate descriptor doesn't change what it says - which is that you're full of s**t, because your argument is based entirely on Tu Quoque, False Analogy, Poisoning the Well, False Cause, and implied Slippery Slope fallacies.

[Kaworu 17]

Arcoon Effox

Pseudo
adjective

not genuine; sham.

"we are talking about real journalists and not the pseudo kind"

Therefore "pseudo-fallacy" = "fake fallacy", which is to say that my argument was not a fallacy? Think carefully before using big words next time.

[Oceanluvr1216]

DarkSohisohi

I got into a heated debate about which religion was worse, islam or christianity. Clearly, it's islam but the discussion makes me want to ask what are your top 5 worst religions. What do you see as the worst?

I think it's a horrible thing to just state a question like this. Instead, if you wanted to know what makes a religion bad or the worst, is clearer. Personally I think that any religion that is concerned with harming oneself or others and destroying our world/environment would be the worst. The problem is that there are many different religions and people don't always follow the region in it's entirety. I am really getting tired of people pointing to Islam as being an evil religion. If you even research anything about what Islam really is you would know that it is not inherently evil. What is evil are the people who claim to be Islamic and do horrendous acts against other people. The same goes for Christianity. It is not evil, but the things that evil people do and then site the religion as their backing is evil. So to answer your question, if a religion is concerned with harming the followers of their own religion and harming the environment, I would consider that a "worst" religion.

[Oceanluvr1216]

icicle weapon

If you're going to base groups based on the extremists, then every group is equally evil.

There is no group of people free of extremists.

That's like saying all men are bad because some are rapists, and all women are bad because terfs.

Very good point!

[DarkSohisohi]

Oceanluvr1216

DarkSohisohi

I got into a heated debate about which religion was worse, islam or christianity. Clearly, it's islam but the discussion makes me want to ask what are your top 5 worst religions. What do you see as the worst?

I think it's a horrible thing to just state a question like this. Instead, if you wanted to know what makes a religion bad or the worst, is clearer. Personally I think that any religion that is concerned with harming oneself or others and destroying our world/environment would be the worst. The problem is that there are many different religions and people don't always follow the region in it's entirety. I am really getting tired of people pointing to Islam as being an evil religion. If you even research anything about what Islam really is you would know that it is not inherently evil. What is evil are the people who claim to be Islamic and do horrendous acts against other people. The same goes for Christianity. It is not evil, but the things that evil people do and then site the religion as their backing is evil. So to answer your question, if a religion is concerned with harming the followers of their own religion and harming the environment, I would consider that a "worst" religion.

Sound like you're just a coward. Likewise what people see as good or bad varies, so asking "what makes a religion bad or the worst" is not really all that much clearer. Though, for the sake of argument, I'll grant this point. Then what is the point of determining what makes a religion the worst or bad if you can't actually apply those criteria? Do you actually believe that people here are just listing religions without any type of thought process behind it? So I guess you alone know what makes a religion bad. . . >.>

I also find fault with your form of reasoning in regards to islam. For starters, the k-ran is far from sunshine and rainbows. Likewise, it's all cherry picking and interpretation. Regular muslims are no better then their terrorist counterparts, they cherry pick what verses to fallow and interpret things for their own benefit. They are all just as selfish, the only difference is how destructive they end up.

You've given my your criteria,

Quote:

"So to answer your question, if a religion is concerned with harming the followers of their own religion and harming the environment, I would consider that a "worst" religion."

Yet you still have not answered my question, so I command you heretic, it's your standard so stop bitching and use it to name the worst religion. And don't forget to list 4 more when you're done because I asked for a list of 5. . . Or are you afraid of offending the worst religion?

[JediDillon]

DarkSohisohi

I got into a heated debate about which religion was worse, islam or christianity. Clearly, it's islam but the discussion makes me want to ask what are your top 5 worst religions. What do you see as the worst?

1. Islamic Extremism

2. Japanese cult Aleph

3. New Age movement

4. Humanism

5. Catholicism in its early history

[Oceanluvr1216]

DarkSohisohi

Oceanluvr1216

DarkSohisohi

I got into a heated debate about which religion was worse, islam or christianity. Clearly, it's islam but the discussion makes me want to ask what are your top 5 worst religions. What do you see as the worst?

I think it's a horrible thing to just state a question like this. Instead, if you wanted to know what makes a religion bad or the worst, is clearer. Personally I think that any religion that is concerned with harming oneself or others and destroying our world/environment would be the worst. The problem is that there are many different religions and people don't always follow the region in it's entirety. I am really getting tired of people pointing to Islam as being an evil religion. If you even research anything about what Islam really is you would know that it is not inherently evil. What is evil are the people who claim to be Islamic and do horrendous acts against other people. The same goes for Christianity. It is not evil, but the things that evil people do and then site the religion as their backing is evil. So to answer your question, if a religion is concerned with harming the followers of their own religion and harming the environment, I would consider that a "worst" religion.

Sound like you're just a coward. Likewise what people see as good or bad varies, so asking "what makes a religion bad or the worst" is not really all that much clearer. Though, for the sake of argument, I'll grant this point. Then what is the point of determining what makes a religion the worst or bad if you can't actually apply those criteria? Do you actually believe that people here are just listing religions without any type of thought process behind it? So I guess you alone know what makes a religion bad. . . >.>

I also find fault with your form of reasoning in regards to islam. For starters, the k-ran is far from sunshine and rainbows. Likewise, it's all cherry picking and interpretation. Regular muslims are no better then their terrorist counterparts, they cherry pick what verses to fallow and interpret things for their own benefit. They are all just as selfish, the only difference is how destructive they end up.

You've given my your criteria,

Quote:

"So to answer your question, if a religion is concerned with harming the followers of their own religion and harming the environment, I would consider that a "worst" religion."

You have yet to answer my question, so I command you heretic, using your standard what is the worst religion? Or are you afraid of offending the worst religion?

It's your standard, so stop bitching and use it. And when your done, list 4 more, because I asked for a list of 5.

So by your criteria, Christians that pick and choose small passages are just as bad. The rest of your comments don't even warrant an intelligent response because clearly you've already made up your mind and unwilling to listen to anyone else's reasoning.

[Arcoon Effox]

Kaworu 17

Arcoon Effox

Pseudo
adjective

not genuine; sham.

"we are talking about real journalists and not the pseudo kind"

Therefore "pseudo-fallacy" = "fake fallacy", which is to say that my argument was not a fallacy?

No, which is to say that the phrase "atheist atrocity fallacy" is not the name of a formal or informal fallacy (as explained in the part you omitted from this quote in order to misrepresent me).

Kaworu 17

Think carefully before using big words next time.

P-s-e-u-d-o. I count six letters there, Kaworu.

...Do six-letter words count as "big" to you?

[DarkSohisohi]

Oceanluvr1216

DarkSohisohi

Oceanluvr1216

DarkSohisohi

I got into a heated debate about which religion was worse, islam or christianity. Clearly, it's islam but the discussion makes me want to ask what are your top 5 worst religions. What do you see as the worst?

I think it's a horrible thing to just state a question like this. Instead, if you wanted to know what makes a religion bad or the worst, is clearer. Personally I think that any religion that is concerned with harming oneself or others and destroying our world/environment would be the worst. The problem is that there are many different religions and people don't always follow the region in it's entirety. I am really getting tired of people pointing to Islam as being an evil religion. If you even research anything about what Islam really is you would know that it is not inherently evil. What is evil are the people who claim to be Islamic and do horrendous acts against other people. The same goes for Christianity. It is not evil, but the things that evil people do and then site the religion as their backing is evil. So to answer your question, if a religion is concerned with harming the followers of their own religion and harming the environment, I would consider that a "worst" religion.

Sound like you're just a coward. Likewise what people see as good or bad varies, so asking "what makes a religion bad or the worst" is not really all that much clearer. Though, for the sake of argument, I'll grant this point. Then what is the point of determining what makes a religion the worst or bad if you can't actually apply those criteria? Do you actually believe that people here are just listing religions without any type of thought process behind it? So I guess you alone know what makes a religion bad. . . >.>

I also find fault with your form of reasoning in regards to islam. For starters, the k-ran is far from sunshine and rainbows. Likewise, it's all cherry picking and interpretation. Regular muslims are no better then their terrorist counterparts, they cherry pick what verses to fallow and interpret things for their own benefit. They are all just as selfish, the only difference is how destructive they end up.

You've given my your criteria,

Quote:

"So to answer your question, if a religion is concerned with harming the followers of their own religion and harming the environment, I would consider that a "worst" religion."

You have yet to answer my question, so I command you heretic, using your standard what is the worst religion? Or are you afraid of offending the worst religion?

It's your standard, so stop bitching and use it. And when your done, list 4 more, because I asked for a list of 5.

So by your criteria, Christians that pick and choose small passages are just as bad. The rest of your comments don't even warrant an intelligent response because clearly you've already made up your mind and unwilling to listen to anyone else's reasoning.

Indeed, they are.

I could say the same about you, but most fools don't realize what they are saying, so I'm forced to correct all you heretics.

Well, you are aware there are. . . Others. . . For the most part I just create topics and leave them along so you all can discuss. After that I only post to piss people off or call out stupid s**t.

[DarkSohisohi]

Kaworu 17

DarkSohisohi

Kaworu 17

Atheism.

It's a top 5, so 4 more to go.

1. 20th-century communist atheism
2. "New Atheism" school of atheism.
3. Extremist Islam
4. "Agnostic-atheism"
5. Neo-Pagans

Honorary mention: protestantism

I get it, what you really mean is:

1. Mormonism
2. Wicca
3. Regular Islam
4. Scientology
5. Christianity

Since there is no god, they all are atheists (it's just that some don't know it yet ^.^ lol)

[DarkSohisohi]

Lucky~9~Lives

DarkSohisohi

Kaworu 17

Atheism.

It's a top 5, so 4 more to go.

He's referring to the 5 godless religions (Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Scientology, and Islam).

lol