"Spiritual, But Not Religious"

[Say Rae]

I've known a lot of people over the years who have described themselves as "spiritual, but not religious," but I've never known exactly how to interpret that. It seems like everyone has a different meaning to the phrase, some with specific undefinable beliefs, and then some who seem to use it just as a way to avoid saying that they're an atheist or agnostic.

I'm curious.

So, discuss: What do you assume someone means when he/she identifies as "spiritual, but not religious"? Or, if you identify as that and feel comfortable talking about it, what does the phrase mean to you?

[Ask Jappleack]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255894/Spiritual-people-likely-mentally-ill-think-life-meaning.html
means they are following frauds propaganda conspiracy theories and impractical practices like divination.

[TJ Raptor]

Having beliefs that correlate with religion without having enough commonalities with one religion to identify as a member of it. For instance, someone who believes in heaven and hell, but believes in a panentheistic deity.

[Lightning the Lulu]

I never have any idea what these people are talking about and upon questioning them, I usually discover that they don't either. It seems to be a way to get out of being affiliated with all the negative aspects of organized religions without giving up the woowoo and/or without having to declare themselves atheists.

[Nerdologist]

Perhaps having a sense of the metaphysical, supernatural, mysterious, or moral without adhering to a stringent system of belief. Or even accepting some of the wisdom/teachings of religion without believing in the tenets which are required for membership in any particular religion.

[SylverStar]

Gardening_with_Rave_Music

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255894/Spiritual-people-likely-mentally-ill-think-life-meaning.html
means they are following frauds propaganda conspiracy theories and impractical practices like divination.

I have a problem with the first sentance in that article "Being spiritual may give life deeper meaning, but it can also make you more susceptible to mental illness, new research suggests."

A correlational result does not equal causation. I just have to say that. I think it more likely that people with mental illness look for deeper meaning. Also what you stated is a broad generalization about a group of people.


@OP I actually tend to tell people I'm spiritual but not religious. What I mean is I don't practice any organized religion but I have my own personal beliefs that are important to me when it comes to things that fall with in religious viewpoints. Like reincarnation, and a more pantheistic view. I also say it when I don't want to openly say I'm not Christian or go indepth about my beliefs. It is basically a quick answer to; are you Christian, or go to church, without trying to offend someone by saying I'm not or I don't. Usually reserved for those I don't know very well.

[Ask Jappleack]

SylverStar

Gardening_with_Rave_Music

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255894/Spiritual-people-likely-mentally-ill-think-life-meaning.html
means they are following frauds propaganda conspiracy theories and impractical practices like divination.

I have a problem with the first sentance in that article "Being spiritual may give life deeper meaning, but it can also make you more susceptible to mental illness, new research suggests."

A correlational result does not equal causation. I just have to say that. I think it more likely that people with mental illness look for deeper meaning. Also what you stated is a broad generalization about a group of people.


@OP I actually tend to tell people I'm spiritual but not religious. What I mean is I don't practice any organized religion but I have my own personal beliefs that are important to me when it comes to things that fall with in religious viewpoints. Like reincarnation, and a more pantheistic view. I also say it when I don't want to openly say I'm not Christian or go indepth about my beliefs. It is basically a quick answer to; are you Christian, or go to church, without trying to offend someone by saying I'm not or I don't. Usually reserved for those I don't know very well.

* Or Both.
But people CAN and Do swap between religious spiritual and atheistic. Personally, i had mental illness when i was into spiritual bullshit. I was perfectly kosher when i was religious even if i was stupid. And Now that I'm an atheist, Im a little miserable but im not frikken stupid beyond reason. Besides, pessimists live longer. Except, arguing decreases life expectancy so idk how to come to an entire conclusion on that lol.

Anyways, in order to practice s**t with no real results just abusing confirmation bias and cherry picking eventually you are gonna break when your reality has nothing solid its based on. That is why mental illness arises. But simpler people can be attracted to it also, I can see that happening.

Perhaps it'd please you if they had ANOTHER Stanford prison like experiment, except in the context of religious, spiritual, and atheist, so you just happen to finally admit spirituality causes mental illness. Naw, what, you got offended and wanted to defend it or something? Lets be realistic. Scientists specifically said it seems to cause mental illness. Scientists you might think would already know correlation is not causation. SO, this means it does promote mental illness. Superstition alone would drive up stress increasing the odds of paranoia. But when you can pray to a god and have faith in a god, it undoes some of that downside. Which is why I think religion fares well for their results. Not because its true, as studies involving prayer suggest if you tell someone you pray for them their condition worsens lol. The benefit is to the one who prays.

[Say Rae]

Gardening_with_Rave_Music

* Or Both.
But people CAN and Do swap between religious spiritual and atheistic. Personally, i had mental illness when i was into spiritual bullshit. I was perfectly kosher when i was religious even if i was stupid. And Now that I'm an atheist, Im a little miserable but im not frikken stupid beyond reason. Besides, pessimists live longer. Except, arguing decreases life expectancy so idk how to come to an entire conclusion on that lol.

Anyways, in order to practice s**t with no real results just abusing confirmation bias and cherry picking eventually you are gonna break when your reality has nothing solid its based on. That is why mental illness arises. But simpler people can be attracted to it also, I can see that happening.

Perhaps it'd please you if they had ANOTHER Stanford prison like experiment, except in the context of religious, spiritual, and atheist, so you just happen to finally admit spirituality causes mental illness. Naw, what, you got offended and wanted to defend it or something? Lets be realistic. Scientists specifically said it seems to cause mental illness. Scientists you might think would already know correlation is not causation. SO, this means it does promote mental illness. Superstition alone would drive up stress increasing the odds of paranoia. But when you can pray to a god and have faith in a god, it undoes some of that downside. Which is why I think religion fares well for their results. Not because its true, as studies involving prayer suggest if you tell someone you pray for them their condition worsens lol. The benefit is to the one who prays.

I think you're failing to realize how biased studies and conclusions actually can be. And beyond that, I think you're forgetting that the article you linked was just that -- an article, which is even more likely to be biased than a study itself. That's not to say it's inaccurate, but I do think they were definitely speaking of correlation and not causation.

To say that spirituality causes mental illness is to directly ignore huge groups of people. What of those who consider themselves spiritual, but suffer from no mental illness? What of those who are not spiritual, but do suffer from mental illness? I think a more likely explanation of the supposed correlation is that those who identify as spiritual are more likely to be at a point in their life (or an age in their life), when more mental illnesses start to appear. That, and I think there's also a chance that a good number of extremely religious individuals are not as willing to acknowledge signs of mental illness, or seek psychiatric treatment for it. Some might believe that God will cure them of it, for instance, and so wouldn't report it to the survey. Spirituality might also draw those who already suffer from mental illnesses to it, as they search for alternative means of treatment, or as they search for more meaning to add to their lives.

Also, who said that a spiritual individual must be superstitious? Many of the individuals I've encountered who identify as spiritual are actually some of the most carefree and un-stressed people I've met.

[Ask Jappleack]

Say Rae

Gardening_with_Rave_Music

* Or Both.
But people CAN and Do swap between religious spiritual and atheistic. Personally, i had mental illness when i was into spiritual bullshit. I was perfectly kosher when i was religious even if i was stupid. And Now that I'm an atheist, Im a little miserable but im not frikken stupid beyond reason. Besides, pessimists live longer. Except, arguing decreases life expectancy so idk how to come to an entire conclusion on that lol.

Anyways, in order to practice s**t with no real results just abusing confirmation bias and cherry picking eventually you are gonna break when your reality has nothing solid its based on. That is why mental illness arises. But simpler people can be attracted to it also, I can see that happening.

Perhaps it'd please you if they had ANOTHER Stanford prison like experiment, except in the context of religious, spiritual, and atheist, so you just happen to finally admit spirituality causes mental illness. Naw, what, you got offended and wanted to defend it or something? Lets be realistic. Scientists specifically said it seems to cause mental illness. Scientists you might think would already know correlation is not causation. SO, this means it does promote mental illness. Superstition alone would drive up stress increasing the odds of paranoia. But when you can pray to a god and have faith in a god, it undoes some of that downside. Which is why I think religion fares well for their results. Not because its true, as studies involving prayer suggest if you tell someone you pray for them their condition worsens lol. The benefit is to the one who prays.

I think you're failing to realize how biased studies and conclusions actually can be. And beyond that, I think you're forgetting that the article you linked was just that -- an article, which is even more likely to be biased than a study itself. That's not to say it's inaccurate, but I do think they were definitely speaking of correlation and not causation.

To say that spirituality causes mental illness is to directly ignore huge groups of people. What of those who consider themselves spiritual, but suffer from no mental illness? What of those who are not spiritual, but do suffer from mental illness? I think a more likely explanation of the supposed correlation is that those who identify as spiritual are more likely to be at a point in their life (or an age in their life), when more mental illnesses start to appear. That, and I think there's also a chance that a good number of extremely religious individuals are not as willing to acknowledge signs of mental illness, or seek psychiatric treatment for it. Some might believe that God will cure them of it, for instance, and so wouldn't report it to the survey. Spirituality might also draw those who already suffer from mental illnesses to it, as they search for alternative means of treatment, or as they search for more meaning to add to their lives.

Also, who said that a spiritual individual must be superstitious? Many of the individuals I've encountered who identify as spiritual are actually some of the most carefree and un-stressed people I've met.

Well it was a small sample size (they said it was 2%). But assuming it was 30+ people(which may be wrong on my part) its based on truth, mental illness runs in it. But, do note, positive delusions exist not just negative ones.

[Bogotanian]

Nerdologist

Perhaps having a sense of the metaphysical, supernatural, mysterious, or moral without adhering to a stringent system of belief. Or even accepting some of the wisdom/teachings of religion without believing in the tenets which are required for membership in any particular religion.

So picking and choosing aspects of a religion(s) that suits someones tastes while ignoring other important doctrines?

[Lucky~9~Lives]

Bogotanian

Nerdologist

Perhaps having a sense of the metaphysical, supernatural, mysterious, or moral without adhering to a stringent system of belief. Or even accepting some of the wisdom/teachings of religion without believing in the tenets which are required for membership in any particular religion.

So picking and choosing aspects of a religion(s) that suits someones tastes while ignoring other important doctrines?

Only to the extent the metaphysical, supernatural, mysterious, or moral are exclusive to religion(s).

[Nerdologist]

Bogotanian

Nerdologist

Perhaps having a sense of the metaphysical, supernatural, mysterious, or moral without adhering to a stringent system of belief. Or even accepting some of the wisdom/teachings of religion without believing in the tenets which are required for membership in any particular religion.

So picking and choosing aspects of a religion(s) that suits someones tastes while ignoring other important doctrines?

Importance is a matter of personal opinion.

[Arcoon Effox]

Say Rae

What do you assume someone means when he/she identifies as "spiritual, but not religious"?

Religion = dogma; a person who is "spiritual but not religious" is someone who has beliefs that are "outside the box" from organized religion(s).

[Michael Noire]

organized religion has two problems:
1. the organization structure itself
2. the people

sometimes people even of the same religion can be horrible, depending on your area. So if your church had 100 buildings scattered across the country, and you visited a different one while on a road trip, you might discover this new building is full of catty gossipy or prudish or even crazy or cliquish mean people - even though they profess the same religion.

At that point, you might still believe what those people believe, but because you don't want to be around those people, or grouped with those people when asked about your faith, you might respond you are spiritual. Imagine you live in a town of catholics and Pentecostals, but the pentecostals are just one family of trailer trash who drink moonshine all week and then act possessed and crazy on the weekends at their church buildings. Now imagine you were a petecostal who just moved into the neighborhood.

The whole catholic community would lump you in with those crazy drunk people and you would never get that banking loan you wanted to set up your business. You might be turned down for most of mortgages and find the only place you could get permission to rent is next door to a trailer park with guess who as neighbors.

So that covers issue #2.

Then there's issue #1.
There are small towns and large towns, but religious diversity may be lacking in your area, large or small. Alternatively, you may agree with the precepts of a particular religion but disagree on some points. Perhaps its a finer point, or perhaps its a major one. When the disagreements add up too many times, you may eventually have to part ways with a group that worships the same entity, but the way they conduct themselves in day to day affairs AND in dogma, generally, is so different that you are a religion of 1.


Unmentioned is #3.
A Paranormal experience or Epiphany.
Some people have intensely powerful experiences the academic world is unable to provide answers to. The meaning is so overwhelming for these people and so honest and true for them that they have no course but to veer toward what feels the right choice. But their experience may have absolutely nothing to do with any existing organized religion they can name. In this case, they become a religion of 1 without any religious structure or dogma to begin with, but rather have their life changing experience first - their miracle - and then try to construct their own paradigm and believes around it. This is actually how many religions were founded.

[SylverStar]

Gardening_with_Rave_Music

*Or Both.
But people CAN and Do swap between religious spiritual and atheistic. Personally, i had mental illness when i was into spiritual bullshit. I was perfectly kosher when i was religious even if i was stupid. And Now that I'm an atheist, Im a little miserable but im not frikken stupid beyond reason. Besides, pessimists live longer. Except, arguing decreases life expectancy so idk how to come to an entire conclusion on that lol.

Anyways, in order to practice s**t with no real results just abusing confirmation bias and cherry picking eventually you are gonna break when your reality has nothing solid its based on. That is why mental illness arises. But simpler people can be attracted to it also, I can see that happening.

Perhaps it'd please you if they had ANOTHER Stanford prison like experiment, except in the context of religious, spiritual, and atheist, so you just happen to finally admit spirituality causes mental illness. Naw, what, you got offended and wanted to defend it or something? Lets be realistic. Scientists specifically said it seems to cause mental illness. Scientists you might think would already know correlation is not causation. SO, this means it does promote mental illness. Superstition alone would drive up stress increasing the odds of paranoia. But when you can pray to a god and have faith in a god, it undoes some of that downside. Which is why I think religion fares well for their results. Not because its true, as studies involving prayer suggest if you tell someone you pray for them their condition worsens lol. The benefit is to the one who prays.

Um ok. First, my problem is in general with writers/journalists writing that a study with a correlation (such as the one in the article you posted) equals causation. The actually study scientists most likely don't saying anything about causation, because they can't assert that based on the results posted in that article (sense I don't have access to the original journal article...I can't say for sure). I don't care if the article was about ice cream and drownings. I see this done over and over by journalists and people who lack the ability to know the difference will assert such things cause something else based on science...which is inaccurate.

Second, because you experienced it does not make it true for everyone or even the majority. I don't hold antedoctal evidence very high. Although it is useful in asking questions. I could us my own expierence to refute yours....but I don't think that is constructive. Also what research shows pessimists live longer?

Third, everyone uses confirmation bias and those who have a stronger belief are more likely to do so...it has nothing do with what the actual beliefs are. Also those who are open to multiple points of view I could actually see making the confirmation bias error less. I think the cherry picking thing is most peoples problem when it comes to people that don't have beliefs that matches a organized religion. Not everyone cherry picks who is spiritual...just because someone doesn't go to church doesn't mean they don't have a good foundation or a solid one. I think again you are generalizing. If one black swan exists they can't all be white. Spirtual doesn't necessarily mean pagan or eclectic. I know people who are Christian who label themselves spiritual but not religious. I also know people who are irreligious and do not have a good foundation. That is not why mental illness arises...and asserting that it is goes against of most research on mental illness as well as further stigmatizing a group of people.

Lastly that is a large conclusion to draw of me based on the one post and it doesn't even make sense. It's faulty to assert knowledge based on one study. For me to believe that spirituality causes mental illness I would like to see a number of research articles from multiple sides looking at the problem in different ways. Also I've already seen a numerous amount of research stating that it is biological factors and environmental factors that cause mental illness. Where religion could fall into both (innate personalilty and attending church) spirituality is not the sole cause of mental illness. The study in the article you posted doesn't even show that spirituality causes mental illness.