Special Pleading

[Marius Beckett]

Quote:

Unless there is some reason other than having a creator for believing the universe is a created entity e.g. the universe having a finite age.

If the Universe doesn't have a creator then it is not a "created" entity. It has a beginning but it wasn't "created." Thus it wouldn't change the fact that it would still be circular logic for someone to think the Universe had a creator becuase it is a created entity.

[Lucky~9~Lives]

Marius Beckett

Lucky~9~Lives

Unless there is some reason other than having a creator for believing the universe is a created entity e.g. the universe having a finite age.

If the Universe doesn't have a creator then it is not a "created" entity. It has a beginning but it wasn't "created."

I'm not claiming there's a good reason.

Marius Beckett

And that wouldn't change the fact that it would still be circular logic for someone to think the Universe had a creator becuase it is a created entity.

As before; only if the universe were also thought to be created because it had a creator.

[Marius Beckett]

Quote:

As before; only if the universe were also thought to be created because it had a creator.

And as before a created universe implies a creator. Otherwise you're misusing the word "created."

[Lucky~9~Lives]

Marius Beckett

Lucky~9~Lives

As before; only if the universe were also thought to be created because it had a creator.

And as before a created universe implies a creator. Otherwise you're misusing the word "created."

Probably why the original argument refers to things that have a beginning, not to things that are created.
- xp

[Marius Beckett]

The original argument refers to things that exist needing a creator, and that's why the original complaint was a case for special pleading and not circular logic. I only added that on as a "darned if you do darned if you don't" scenario for the existence = creator argument.