Welcome to Gaia! ::

Gosh. Oo; I know what Neo-paganism is. But usually, not always, "Neo" added to the word usually means it's been reformed in some way. You don't have to live in the past to practice like they did in the past. For an example... Atheme's have been used by "magic users" or "witches". In theory, an atheme could only be used if it was made buy the person from scratch. Today, buying a simple dagger from a flea market is used in rituals buy Wiccans and pagens alike.
kasaikiree
I've been doing alot of research lately about the Moon Triple Goddess aspect of Diana (maidan), Selene (Mother, I believe) and Hecate (Crone)


Why is Hekate a crone? She is depicted in Greek myth as a young woman.
Mugetsu Ookamiza's avatar

Lupine Bibliophile

12,000 Points
  • Partygoer 500
  • The Wolf Within 100
  • Team Jacob 100
Pilot Will
Gosh. Oo; I know what Neo-paganism is. But usually, not always, "Neo" added to the word usually means it's been reformed in some way. You don't have to live in the past to practice like they did in the past. For an example... Atheme's have been used by "magic users" or "witches". In theory, an atheme could only be used if it was made buy the person from scratch. Today, buying a simple dagger from a flea market is used in rituals buy Wiccans and pagens alike.

not every "magical" religion practices magic the same way. the number of ancient religions that use an "athame" (and the number of ancient religions that called it an "athame" wink aren't in the majority. yes, most "magical" religions use something to focus their magic, but that could be a dagger, a sword, a staff, a rod/wand, words, symbols, runes, string... ect.

and... can't you spell "pagan" right? it's not that hard, just spell it twith two "a"s and no "e" stare
In Jewish Kabbalah the Feminine Aspect of God is refered to as Shekinah. In Christian Gnosticism the Feminine Aspect of God is refered to as Barbelo (Holy Spirit). Sophia (Wisdom) is also Female and is the "Wisdom of God" and is present in both Old and New Testaments as personified and female, and is present in both Kabbalah and Gnostic Traditions. Sophia's Offspring is Zoe (Life) and is the consort of Adam Kadmon (Old Testament God). Interesting, as Adam's wife is Eve (Life). Adam means Humanity, Eve means Life.

The Ten Sephiroth of Jewish Kabbalah include both masculine and feminine qualities. Right side masculine, left side feminine. Jewish Kabbalah pays a great deal of attention to the feminine aspects of God.

Christian Gnosticism portrays God as Father, Mother and Son, a Trinity in which the Holy Spirit is identified as female, e.g. Apocryphon of John 2:9-14. For further reading on female divinities in Gnosticism, see Pagels, pp. 48-69.

From Gnosis.Org:

"The Gnostic Christians did not read Genesis as history with a moral, but as a myth with a meaning. To them, Adam and Eve were not actual historical figures, but representatives of two intrapsychic principles within every human being. Adam was the dramatic embodiment of psyche, or soul, while Eve stood for the pneuma, or spirit. Soul, to the Gnostics, meant the embodiment of the emotional and thinking functions of the personality, while spirit represented the human capacity for spiritual consciousness. The former was the lesser self (the ego of depth psychology), the latter the transcendental function, or the "higher self," as it is sometimes known. Obviously, Eve, then, is by nature superior to Adam, rather than his inferior as implied by orthodoxy.

Nowhere is Eve's superiority and numinous power more evident than in her role as Adam's awakener. Adam is in a deep sleep, from which Eve's liberating call arouses him. While the orthodox version has Eve physically emerge from Adam's body, the Gnostic rendering has the spiritual principle known as Eve emerging from the unconscious depths of the somnolent Adam. Before she thus emerges into liberating consciousness.

Eve calls forth to the sleeping Adam in the following manner, as stated by the Gnostic Apocryphon of John:

I entered into the midst of the dungeon which is the prison of the body. And I spoke thus: "He who hears, let him arise from the deep sleep." And then he (Adam) wept and shed tears. After he wiped away his bitter tears he spoke, asking: "Who is it that calls my name, and whence has this hope come unto me, while I am in the chains of this prison?" And I spoke thus: "I am the Pronoia of the pure light; I am the thought of the undefiled spirit. . . . Arise and remember . . . and follow your root, which is I . . . and beware of the deep sleep."

In another scripture from the same collection, entitled On the Origin of the World, we find further amplification of this theme. Here Eve whose mystical name is Zoe, meaning life, is shown as the daughter and messenger of the Divine Sophia, the feminine hypostasis of the supreme Godhead:

Sophia sent Zoe, her daughter, who is called "Eve," as an instructor in order that she might raise up Adam, in whom there is no spiritual soul so that those whom he could beget might also become vessels of light. When Eve saw her companion, who was so much like her, in his cast down condition she pitied him, and she exclaimed: "Adam, live! Rise up upon the earth!" Immediately her words produced a result for when Adam rose up, right away he opened his eyes. When he saw her, he said: "You will be called 'mother of the living', because you are the one who gave me life."

Therefore, Adam (Humanity) is Spiritually Liberated by Eve (Life). As in Spiritual Life.
OokamiBlue
Pilot Will
Gosh. Oo; I know what Neo-paganism is. But usually, not always, "Neo" added to the word usually means it's been reformed in some way. You don't have to live in the past to practice like they did in the past. For an example... Atheme's have been used by "magic users" or "witches". In theory, an atheme could only be used if it was made buy the person from scratch. Today, buying a simple dagger from a flea market is used in rituals buy Wiccans and pagens alike.

not every "magical" religion practices magic the same way. the number of ancient religions that use an "athame" (and the number of ancient religions that called it an "athame" wink aren't in the majority. yes, most "magical" religions use something to focus their magic, but that could be a dagger, a sword, a staff, a rod/wand, words, symbols, runes, string... ect.

and... can't you spell "pagan" right? it's not that hard, just spell it twith two "a"s and no "e" stare


Also, not all "neo-pagan" religions practice magic. For most common people, witchcraft was a bad thing, and only the elite would practice the ideas of theurgy, at least in Greece.
Nuri
kasaikiree
I've been doing alot of research lately about the Moon Triple Goddess aspect of Diana (maidan), Selene (Mother, I believe) and Hecate (Crone)

Why is Hekate a crone? She is depicted in Greek myth as a young woman.


Most of the sources I've found that say that Daian, Selene and Hecate are of the maidan, mother, crone trinity, instead of just a moon trinity, put her as a crone because of her affiliation with the underworld and such. I must admit I sorta disregarded it untill I found one website of a coven who worships Hecate as their primary diety, so I was kinda forced to accept it.
kasaikiree
[

Most of the sources I've found that say that Daian, Selene and Hecate are of the maidan, mother, crone trinity, instead of just a moon trinity, put her as a crone because of her affiliation with the underworld and such. I must admit I sorta disregarded it untill I found one website of a coven who worships Hecate as their primary diety, so I was kinda forced to accept it.


So you didn't bother to think for yourself, instead having to accept everyone elses beliefs?

In most of Greek mythology, starting by Hesiod, Hecate is a young maiden of the crossroads, the dark side of the moon (the opposite her grandmother Pheobe, another Moon Goddess). While she had connections to the underworld, why does this make her a crone?

Modern conventions like to make assumptions and lump things together. This is a problem with archetypal thinking in mythology. The nature of the dieties changed. At some point Hekate changed from the kind, tenderhearted to the she-wolf b***h in mythology. From a woman with three figures, to having two extra heads of a dog and horse.
Nuri
kasaikiree
[

Most of the sources I've found that say that Daian, Selene and Hecate are of the maidan, mother, crone trinity, instead of just a moon trinity, put her as a crone because of her affiliation with the underworld and such. I must admit I sorta disregarded it untill I found one website of a coven who worships Hecate as their primary diety, so I was kinda forced to accept it.


So you didn't bother to think for yourself, instead having to accept everyone elses beliefs?

In most of Greek mythology, starting by Hesiod, Hecate is a young maiden of the crossroads, the dark side of the moon (the opposite her grandmother Pheobe, another Moon Goddess). While she had connections to the underworld, why does this make her a crone?

Modern conventions like to make assumptions and lump things together. This is a problem with archetypal thinking in mythology. The nature of the dieties changed. At some point Hekate changed from the kind, tenderhearted to the she-wolf b***h in mythology. From a woman with three figures, to having two extra heads of a dog and horse.


I did think for myself. Just because I accept her as the crone part of the trinity does not mean that I think she is the eldest or "old and ugly". Just that she is the one that represents the wisdom and glory of being old.
kasaikiree
Nuri
kasaikiree
[

Most of the sources I've found that say that Daian, Selene and Hecate are of the maidan, mother, crone trinity, instead of just a moon trinity, put her as a crone because of her affiliation with the underworld and such. I must admit I sorta disregarded it untill I found one website of a coven who worships Hecate as their primary diety, so I was kinda forced to accept it.


So you didn't bother to think for yourself, instead having to accept everyone elses beliefs?

In most of Greek mythology, starting by Hesiod, Hecate is a young maiden of the crossroads, the dark side of the moon (the opposite her grandmother Pheobe, another Moon Goddess). While she had connections to the underworld, why does this make her a crone?

Modern conventions like to make assumptions and lump things together. This is a problem with archetypal thinking in mythology. The nature of the dieties changed. At some point Hekate changed from the kind, tenderhearted to the she-wolf b***h in mythology. From a woman with three figures, to having two extra heads of a dog and horse.


I did think for myself. Just because I accept her as the crone part of the trinity does not mean that I think she is the eldest or "old and ugly". Just that she is the one that represents the wisdom and glory of being old.


But why?
She didn't represent any of those things.

What's the wisdom and glory of being old, and how does that relate to her?
Nuri
kasaikiree
Nuri
kasaikiree
[

Most of the sources I've found that say that Daian, Selene and Hecate are of the maidan, mother, crone trinity, instead of just a moon trinity, put her as a crone because of her affiliation with the underworld and such. I must admit I sorta disregarded it untill I found one website of a coven who worships Hecate as their primary diety, so I was kinda forced to accept it.


So you didn't bother to think for yourself, instead having to accept everyone elses beliefs?

In most of Greek mythology, starting by Hesiod, Hecate is a young maiden of the crossroads, the dark side of the moon (the opposite her grandmother Pheobe, another Moon Goddess). While she had connections to the underworld, why does this make her a crone?

Modern conventions like to make assumptions and lump things together. This is a problem with archetypal thinking in mythology. The nature of the dieties changed. At some point Hekate changed from the kind, tenderhearted to the she-wolf b***h in mythology. From a woman with three figures, to having two extra heads of a dog and horse.


I did think for myself. Just because I accept her as the crone part of the trinity does not mean that I think she is the eldest or "old and ugly". Just that she is the one that represents the wisdom and glory of being old.


But why?
She didn't represent any of those things.

What's the wisdom and glory of being old, and how does that relate to her?


As a crone, she is the wisest of the 3. There is also alot of glory in being a crone, such as knowing that your end in this life is coming, but that your about to get a fresh start in a new one. That's how I picture it, anyway.
kasaikiree


As a crone, she is the wisest of the 3. There is also alot of glory in being a crone, such as knowing that your end in this life is coming, but that your about to get a fresh start in a new one. That's how I picture it, anyway.


But how does she relate historically, and with the Greek view of the afterlife, in which you didn't get a fresh start all the time.

Again, the Greek Gods are about ideals much of the time. They didn't really see anything good in being old. It was about being at your prime as long as possible.
Nuri
kasaikiree

As a crone, she is the wisest of the 3. There is also alot of glory in being a crone, such as knowing that your end in this life is coming, but that your about to get a fresh start in a new one. That's how I picture it, anyway.

But how does she relate historically, and with the Greek view of the afterlife, in which you didn't get a fresh start all the time.
Again, the Greek Gods are about ideals much of the time. They didn't really see anything good in being old. It was about being at your prime as long as possible.


Well, I'm not a recon, so I don't exactly stick to history all the time. History is written by man, and humans make mistakes. I follow my own judgement.
I never said she was old. Just that she was the crone.
kasaikiree
Nuri
kasaikiree

As a crone, she is the wisest of the 3. There is also alot of glory in being a crone, such as knowing that your end in this life is coming, but that your about to get a fresh start in a new one. That's how I picture it, anyway.

But how does she relate historically, and with the Greek view of the afterlife, in which you didn't get a fresh start all the time.
Again, the Greek Gods are about ideals much of the time. They didn't really see anything good in being old. It was about being at your prime as long as possible.


Well, I'm not a recon, so I don't exactly stick to history all the time. History is written by man, and humans make mistakes. I follow my own judgement.
I never said she was old. Just that she was the crone.


so then, only crones know about death and its wisdoms?

I hate archetypes.
Deoridhe's avatar

Fashionable Fairy

11,650 Points
  • Invisibility 100
  • Tooth Fairy 100
  • Elocutionist 200
Pilot Will
And The triple Goddess was a symbol, most likely based on woman because craft was preformed by mostly woman.

So now you're just ignoring the counter evidence that Wicca had the first age-related triune goddess associated with the moon?

If it's an ancient symbol, PROVE IT. Offer evidence that I or Nuri can't destroy with historical evidence to the contrary.

Vil Ainesque
The Triple Goddess is represented in most mythologies, just as The Christ.

The tripple, age-related, Moon goddess only exists in Wicca unless you have evidence to the contrary. Please read back to the initial offerings of Pilot Will and keep in mind that there are several traditions in which women aren't associated with the moon, so of necessity those would not be included. Also show historical evidence these deities were considered a trinity; citing three goddesses who "fit the pattern" of a modern conceptualization does not cut it. That's not reconstruction, that's reinterpretation.
kasaikiree
I never said she was old. Just that she was the crone.

You may as well say, "I never said he wasn't married, just that he was a bachelor."

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=crone

Quick Reply

Submit
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get Items
Get Gaia Cash
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games