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As I have witnessed this girl Cupcakes, she is a deceiver and a liar.
So you are saying that the bible saying none have seen god's face at any time, none have seen his face and survived, and 70 elders and moses and others have seen his face and survived, do not contradict?

Do explain.

And because of the hierarchy of disagreement, do not think you can just say Im a lier, it'd be avoiding the argument. I want you to explain why these parts don't contradict, or forfeit your position with apology as I am not a lier. You do not belong in the ED if you cannot accept the facts.

It'd be intellectually dishonest to approach this problem without a counterargument or better.



My words were quite strong with you, but I am fully confident, having confronted you before, with what I said. I hold to what I have said without a doubt in my mind.

Why do you tell me "do not think you can just say Im a lier, it'd be avoiding the argument. I want you to explain why these parts don't contradict"

I never once "just said" as meaning without evidence or explanation.

Miss cupcakes, my efforts to you mean absolutely nothing to you, if they had, then why did you avoid the fact (And I know you like facts) that when I presented your information to be invalid, incomplete, and reflected something that was not true, and by a second hand source, you dismissed it, and only said you had "more to gain" by staying out? But you want me to be attracted to your red herring argument over in this thread, and also claim that I need to explain Myself? Where is the honesty in that? That is not very logical. (And I know you like logic) and it is hypocritical for you to expect that from me when you wont when I challenged you first in my thread.

I challenged you to go to the source of the information, and not by second hand information. That is not a dismissal on my part, that's is a challenge to you for you already dismissing the source, where I claimed I had confidence in because that is the true account of events. You never said anything....

I do not walk away or dismiss anything unless I think it is invalid or false, or not worth my time. I spent over 2 and one half hours in just one post of mine in AVQ thread. I take my debates very seriously miss, and that includes the means to an honest end! And if you want an honest end you ought to start with one too. But you wont do that, and Ive challenged you on that.

God has not lied at any time, and your less than paraphrase is the same approach and style as Blood Valkyrie, an elementary mistake, but ironically almost always the case with nonbelievers and their agendas to make other people seem like they live a lie. I already know the answer to that and have perfect confidence. But I will by no means at all be submissive to your red herrings fallacy argument.

If any Christian has any doubts, I will gladly talk to them about it, but not you, because Ive already witnessed how dishonest you are, and you don't have any respect or consideration with what I say. You already have a record for bringing false information to me, even in attempts to vilify me, and is all you can say to that is "I have more to gain if I stay out"? its all about gain and saving face at this point isn't it.

I encourage you not to take this kind of approach, have some humility and consideration, but above all, some honesty.


Why do you think im implying the part in bold? Atheists don't think god lied, they think humans made human errors and claimed the bible is the truth. Why would I argue god lied?

And you did not explain the biblical contradictions. What is your explanation for it. All you are doing is less than a counter-argument on the hierarchy of disagreement. You need a counterargument or better, not ad hominems. Where did I lie? You simply cannot admit when you are wrong.




Of course I didn't explain anything to you. If you respected my effort in my reply to you and consider what I say, you would know I have already given you more than enough, and a lot of that is based on your reputation that I have witnessed of you.

Each time I make a response to you, you completely ignore almost my entire post, and you bring into play a single sentence of mine in order make a red herring argument so you don't have to address all the fallacies and dishonesty, and more than good reason not to even try engaging with you. I am confident that you actually understand that.

You bringing something else to the table doesn't mean anything more then your lack of want to admit everything you are doing. I have absolutely to reason to believe on any basis that you will continue to be honest in the future if you haven't been honest in the past. Your excuse is almost implying obligation on my part to do what you say, and give you want you want. Well I am sorry and it doesn't work that way.
Prove I was disrespectful. You are the disrespectful one bringing this topic down to ad hominems repeatedly.


What do you mean prove? I just told you in the above post?!

I'm not riding on disrespect for an argument what I am saying is you arent considering what I am saying.
Cupcakes HD on youtube
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Cupcakes HD on youtube
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Cupcakes HD on youtube
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My words were quite strong with you, but I am fully confident, having confronted you before, with what I said. I hold to what I have said without a doubt in my mind.

Why do you tell me "do not think you can just say Im a lier, it'd be avoiding the argument. I want you to explain why these parts don't contradict"

I never once "just said" as meaning without evidence or explanation.

Miss cupcakes, my efforts to you mean absolutely nothing to you, if they had, then why did you avoid the fact (And I know you like facts) that when I presented your information to be invalid, incomplete, and reflected something that was not true, and by a second hand source, you dismissed it, and only said you had "more to gain" by staying out? But you want me to be attracted to your red herring argument over in this thread, and also claim that I need to explain Myself? Where is the honesty in that? That is not very logical. (And I know you like logic) and it is hypocritical for you to expect that from me when you wont when I challenged you first in my thread.

I challenged you to go to the source of the information, and not by second hand information. That is not a dismissal on my part, that's is a challenge to you for you already dismissing the source, where I claimed I had confidence in because that is the true account of events. You never said anything....

I do not walk away or dismiss anything unless I think it is invalid or false, or not worth my time. I spent over 2 and one half hours in just one post of mine in AVQ thread. I take my debates very seriously miss, and that includes the means to an honest end! And if you want an honest end you ought to start with one too. But you wont do that, and Ive challenged you on that.

God has not lied at any time, and your less than paraphrase is the same approach and style as Blood Valkyrie, an elementary mistake, but ironically almost always the case with nonbelievers and their agendas to make other people seem like they live a lie. I already know the answer to that and have perfect confidence. But I will by no means at all be submissive to your red herrings fallacy argument.

If any Christian has any doubts, I will gladly talk to them about it, but not you, because Ive already witnessed how dishonest you are, and you don't have any respect or consideration with what I say. You already have a record for bringing false information to me, even in attempts to vilify me, and is all you can say to that is "I have more to gain if I stay out"? its all about gain and saving face at this point isn't it.

I encourage you not to take this kind of approach, have some humility and consideration, but above all, some honesty.


Why do you think im implying the part in bold? Atheists don't think god lied, they think humans made human errors and claimed the bible is the truth. Why would I argue god lied?

And you did not explain the biblical contradictions. What is your explanation for it. All you are doing is less than a counter-argument on the hierarchy of disagreement. You need a counterargument or better, not ad hominems. Where did I lie? You simply cannot admit when you are wrong.




Of course I didn't explain anything to you. If you respected my effort in my reply to you and consider what I say, you would know I have already given you more than enough, and a lot of that is based on your reputation that I have witnessed of you.

Each time I make a response to you, you completely ignore almost my entire post, and you bring into play a single sentence of mine in order make a red herring argument so you don't have to address all the fallacies and dishonesty, and more than good reason not to even try engaging with you. I am confident that you actually understand that.

You bringing something else to the table doesn't mean anything more then your lack of want to admit everything you are doing. I have absolutely to reason to believe on any basis that you will continue to be honest in the future if you haven't been honest in the past. Your excuse is almost implying obligation on my part to do what you say, and give you want you want. Well I am sorry and it doesn't work that way.
Prove I was disrespectful. You are the disrespectful one bringing this topic down to ad hominems repeatedly.


What do you mean prove? I just told you in the above post?!

I'm not riding on disrespect for an argument what I am saying is you arent considering what I am saying.
Well I think we argued enough for 90+% of people who followed to come to a conclusion. I am done talking with you in this thread.



Thank goodness. Your red herring was going no where.

Liberal Lionheart

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SharkxAngel
Everyone ignores the texts. rolleyes Like progressive christians for gay marriage are ignoring the texts, and conservative christians against gay marriage are hypocrites also ignoring the texts... Supposed to be w/ God 100% but no one is because of the many many contradictions or inconvenient rules no one wants to follow... It's all really dumb imo. But it makes sense. After all if they read the whole bible in church, they would lose a majority of their followers... Those remaining would be the money hungry agenda serving sadists. So.

Curious, why do you continue to believe in the deity and figures if their whole foundation for believing was shattered?
Also, i dunno if anyone has referenced this for you yet, but I say you should analyze the good book and a good place to start would be here and question if they are still worth believing in~

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SharkxAngel
Everyone ignores the texts. rolleyes Like progressive christians for gay marriage are ignoring the texts, and conservative christians against gay marriage are hypocrites also ignoring the texts... Supposed to be w/ God 100% but no one is because of the many many contradictions or inconvenient rules no one wants to follow... It's all really dumb imo. But it makes sense. After all if they read the whole bible in church, they would lose a majority of their followers... Those remaining would be the money hungry agenda serving sadists. So.

Curious, why do you continue to believe in the deity and figures if their whole foundation for believing was shattered?
Also, i dunno if anyone has referenced this for you yet, but I say you should analyze the good book and a good place to start would be here and question if they are still worth believing in~
Liberal theologians have a more sophisticated way of ignoring the texts-they are very critical of how the bible developed and admit some of what is in it reflects human thinking and they tend to hope and feel more than know Christianity is true. It confuses me, but at least they know to criticize the bible-example: http://humanfacesofgod.com/?p=363
Infamy In Action
SharkxAngel
Everyone ignores the texts. rolleyes Like progressive christians for gay marriage are ignoring the texts, and conservative christians against gay marriage are hypocrites also ignoring the texts... Supposed to be w/ God 100% but no one is because of the many many contradictions or inconvenient rules no one wants to follow... It's all really dumb imo. But it makes sense. After all if they read the whole bible in church, they would lose a majority of their followers... Those remaining would be the money hungry agenda serving sadists. So.

Curious, why do you continue to believe in the deity and figures if their whole foundation for believing was shattered?
Also, i dunno if anyone has referenced this for you yet, but I say you should analyze the good book and a good place to start would be here and question if they are still worth believing in~



Like you said in in your first words. "Everyone ignores the text."

I checked out the website and clicked on "Luke" and started reading from the right hand side. The first thing I see on this website is I find falsified teaching. what I read was attempting to claim a contradiction in the Bible, which when I read it knew automatically it was taken out of context because I know the context, but apparently the website does not.

I always say, non believers almost always take things out of context in order to promote their agenda's. The first thing I look at I find false accusations. It never changes.

Like you said in in your first words. "Everyone ignores the text."

I have complete faith and confidence in the word of God and has never let me down.

Liberal Lionheart

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SharkxAngel
Everyone ignores the texts. rolleyes Like progressive christians for gay marriage are ignoring the texts, and conservative christians against gay marriage are hypocrites also ignoring the texts... Supposed to be w/ God 100% but no one is because of the many many contradictions or inconvenient rules no one wants to follow... It's all really dumb imo. But it makes sense. After all if they read the whole bible in church, they would lose a majority of their followers... Those remaining would be the money hungry agenda serving sadists. So.

Curious, why do you continue to believe in the deity and figures if their whole foundation for believing was shattered?
Also, i dunno if anyone has referenced this for you yet, but I say you should analyze the good book and a good place to start would be here and question if they are still worth believing in~



Like you said in in your first words. "Everyone ignores the text."

I checked out the website and clicked on "Luke" and started reading from the right hand side. The first thing I see on this website is I find falsified teaching. what I read was attempting to claim a contradiction in the Bible, which when I read it knew automatically it was taken out of context because I know the context, but apparently the website does not.

I always say, non believers almost always take things out of context in order to promote their agenda's. The first thing I look at I find false accusations. It never changes.

Like you said in in your first words. "Everyone ignores the text."

I have complete faith and confidence in the word of God and has never let me down.

What did you find out of context exactly? The first questions on the right are there to point out a contradiction. Click on the contradictions tab for more of them and double-check with your own bible.

Even if parts of SAB are out of context, just reading the bible itself there are more than an ample amount of things I, as a human being, am not okay with. Unjust murders, maltreatment, incest, misogyny and such. I sincerely hope you haven't read the several instances of slavery, rape, stonings and condonings of the preceding and thought that these things were a-okay because of your complete and utter faith in the word of God or thought that they were ALL out of context.

Liberal Lionheart

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AliKat1988
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SharkxAngel
Everyone ignores the texts. rolleyes Like progressive christians for gay marriage are ignoring the texts, and conservative christians against gay marriage are hypocrites also ignoring the texts... Supposed to be w/ God 100% but no one is because of the many many contradictions or inconvenient rules no one wants to follow... It's all really dumb imo. But it makes sense. After all if they read the whole bible in church, they would lose a majority of their followers... Those remaining would be the money hungry agenda serving sadists. So.

Curious, why do you continue to believe in the deity and figures if their whole foundation for believing was shattered?
Also, i dunno if anyone has referenced this for you yet, but I say you should analyze the good book and a good place to start would be here and question if they are still worth believing in~
Liberal theologians have a more sophisticated way of ignoring the texts-they are very critical of how the bible developed and admit some of what is in it reflects human thinking and they tend to hope and feel more than know Christianity is true. It confuses me, but at least they know to criticize the bible-example: ]http://humanfacesofgod.com/?p=363
I feel like such a dedicated amount of faith in something you know is flawed needs a morning mantra. X)
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SharkxAngel
Everyone ignores the texts. rolleyes Like progressive christians for gay marriage are ignoring the texts, and conservative christians against gay marriage are hypocrites also ignoring the texts... Supposed to be w/ God 100% but no one is because of the many many contradictions or inconvenient rules no one wants to follow... It's all really dumb imo. But it makes sense. After all if they read the whole bible in church, they would lose a majority of their followers... Those remaining would be the money hungry agenda serving sadists. So.

Curious, why do you continue to believe in the deity and figures if their whole foundation for believing was shattered?
Also, i dunno if anyone has referenced this for you yet, but I say you should analyze the good book and a good place to start would be here and question if they are still worth believing in~



Like you said in in your first words. "Everyone ignores the text."

I checked out the website and clicked on "Luke" and started reading from the right hand side. The first thing I see on this website is I find falsified teaching. what I read was attempting to claim a contradiction in the Bible, which when I read it knew automatically it was taken out of context because I know the context, but apparently the website does not.

I always say, non believers almost always take things out of context in order to promote their agenda's. The first thing I look at I find false accusations. It never changes.

Like you said in in your first words. "Everyone ignores the text."

I have complete faith and confidence in the word of God and has never let me down.


What did you find out of context exactly? The first questions on the right are there to get the reader questioning, aren't exactly claiming anything. Click on the contradictions tab and double-check with your own bible.

Even if parts of SAB are out of context, just reading the bible itself there are more than an ample amount of things I, as a human being, am not okay with. Unjust murders, maltreatment, incest, misogyny and such. I sincerely hope you haven't read the several instances of slavery, rape, stonings and condonings of the preceding and thought that these things were a-okay because of your complete and utter faith in the word of God.



I think you are right, they are more questions to get people to question the Bible, I wasn't reading necessarily statements now that I double checked there on the right. But the purpose is to assume a contradiction without stating it.

I read through 2 or 3 more and find them funny knowing the answers to the "questions" and not statements. But like you said, they are asking questions, and I say which assume a contradiction. And what I see is 2 verses pinned at each other with a question at the end. But like I said, non believers almost always take things out of context or use minimal text as possible to promote their agenda's. Ive read some books on the topic of supposed "contradiction" which listed hundreds and hundreds of them which gave answers to them all.

Btw, you mentioned SAB. I don't know what that is.

I was in a debate not long ago. A girl presented a question "Isn't this a contradiction?" and she posted a coupe verses. of course, out of context. While I was righting up my reply to her I quoted the scriptures, but I did not know that I grabbed an NIV or what ever it was I don't remember, but the verse had removed a word! and it had pertained to the very question that she had! making it a non contradiction!. Now I don't believe in that. So I deleted it and got the more faithful text in my experience which would "assume" in her eyes that there was a contradiction because it didn't remove that little word. However in the end, my response to her so well made, that she neither anyone else commented on my reply even up until now. Now I am not the "go to guy" for this kind of thing, but I say that for example.

You mentioned some things that you, as you put it, "not okay with" that is fine. No argument there, you have your opinions and you are entitled to them, but it doesn't mean that they portray accuracy.
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AliKat1988
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SharkxAngel
Everyone ignores the texts. rolleyes Like progressive christians for gay marriage are ignoring the texts, and conservative christians against gay marriage are hypocrites also ignoring the texts... Supposed to be w/ God 100% but no one is because of the many many contradictions or inconvenient rules no one wants to follow... It's all really dumb imo. But it makes sense. After all if they read the whole bible in church, they would lose a majority of their followers... Those remaining would be the money hungry agenda serving sadists. So.

Curious, why do you continue to believe in the deity and figures if their whole foundation for believing was shattered?
Also, i dunno if anyone has referenced this for you yet, but I say you should analyze the good book and a good place to start would be here and question if they are still worth believing in~
Liberal theologians have a more sophisticated way of ignoring the texts-they are very critical of how the bible developed and admit some of what is in it reflects human thinking and they tend to hope and feel more than know Christianity is true. It confuses me, but at least they know to criticize the bible-example: ]http://humanfacesofgod.com/?p=363



Faith described in the bible is not blind following. Perhaps you ought to be a little slower in your words. That wasn't very kind.

I'll add. I have faith because the Bible has always been reliable for me. I am sure I told you that too in the same response that I told you I have faith.

If you don't understand the person or what he is saying then you wont make a response that can be understood either, which produces argumentation and fighting.

Liberal Lionheart

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I think you are right, they are more questions to get people to question the Bible, I wasn't reading necessarily statements now that I double checked there on the right. But the purpose is to assume a contradiction without stating it.

I read through 2 or 3 more and find them funny knowing the answers to the "questions" and not statements. But like you said, they are asking questions, and I say which assume a contradiction. And what I see is 2 verses pinned at each other with a question at the end. But like I said, non believers almost always take things out of context or use minimal text as possible to promote their agenda's. Ive read some books on the topic of supposed "contradiction" which listed hundreds and hundreds of them which gave answers to them all
I clicked on it and they were actually contradictions. I edited my post w/ a link^^^^ But yes, the main point of the site is for people to question and analyze what are supposedly holy texts.

.
Quote:
Btw, you mentioned SAB. I don't know what that is.
Sorry, that's "Skeptic's annotated bible". The website.

Quote:
I was in a debate not long ago. A girl presented a question "Isn't this a contradiction?" and she posted a coupe verses. of course, out of context. While I was righting up my reply to her I quoted the scriptures, but I did not know that I grabbed an NIV or what ever it was I don't remember, but the verse had removed a word! and it had pertained to the very question that she had! making it a non contradiction!. Now I don't believe in that. So I deleted it and got the more faithful text in my experience which would "assume" in her eyes that there was a contradiction because it didn't remove that little word. However in the end, my response to her so well made, that she neither anyone else commented on my reply even up until now. Now I am not the "go to guy" for this kind of thing, but I say that for example.
confused Do you think every contradiction anyone finds is automatically out of context? Because even a small contradiction as rabbits chewing cud and snakes eating dirt is still a contradiction considering the creator of the universe would probably know this stuff.

Quote:
You mentioned some things that you, as you put it, "not okay with" that is fine. No argument there, you have your opinions and you are entitled to them, but it doesn't mean that they portray accuracy.
What do you mean by my opinions don't portray accuracy? To what? Morality?
Also my (implied) question was are you okay with them? If you are and fall into the sadist category, then you're a terrible person, but okay. If you do indeed have empathy, why do you knowingly worship a god who is crueler than your average human psychopath? If he does exist, his actions and our morality and sense of justice are completely different.

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Faith described in the bible is not blind following. Perhaps you ought to be a little slower in your words. That wasn't very kind.

I'll add. I have faith because its always been reliable for me. I am sure I told you that too in the same response that I told you I have faith.

If you don't understand the person or what he is saying then you wont make a response that can be understood either, which produces argumentation and fighting.


You're misunderstanding me. Actually, taking the statement out of context... >_> I was referring to her description of the Christians who "admit some of what is in it reflects human thinking..." yet still don't think that maybe, just maybe, the whole thing might be written by humans. If you take offense to that because maybe you find fault in the bible but still choose to invest your life in it and ignore the atrocities and contradictions and even worse want others to follow also and live by rules set in it: I'll tell you that it isn't unkind but an observation and tell you what is truly unkind is believing it's justified for billions to be sent into eternal fire for any reason.
Infamy In Action
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I think you are right, they are more questions to get people to question the Bible, I wasn't reading necessarily statements now that I double checked there on the right. But the purpose is to assume a contradiction without stating it.

I read through 2 or 3 more and find them funny knowing the answers to the "questions" and not statements. But like you said, they are asking questions, and I say which assume a contradiction. And what I see is 2 verses pinned at each other with a question at the end. But like I said, non believers almost always take things out of context or use minimal text as possible to promote their agenda's. Ive read some books on the topic of supposed "contradiction" which listed hundreds and hundreds of them which gave answers to them all
I clicked on it and they were actually contradictions. I edited my post w/ a link^^^^ But yes, the main point of the site is for people to question and analyze what are supposedly holy texts.

.
Quote:
Btw, you mentioned SAB. I don't know what that is.
Sorry, that's "Skeptic's annotated bible". The website.

Quote:
I was in a debate not long ago. A girl presented a question "Isn't this a contradiction?" and she posted a coupe verses. of course, out of context. While I was righting up my reply to her I quoted the scriptures, but I did not know that I grabbed an NIV or what ever it was I don't remember, but the verse had removed a word! and it had pertained to the very question that she had! making it a non contradiction!. Now I don't believe in that. So I deleted it and got the more faithful text in my experience which would "assume" in her eyes that there was a contradiction because it didn't remove that little word. However in the end, my response to her so well made, that she neither anyone else commented on my reply even up until now. Now I am not the "go to guy" for this kind of thing, but I say that for example.
confused Do you think every contradiction anyone finds is automatically out of context? Because even a small contradiction as rabbits chewing cud and snakes eating dirt is still a contradiction considering the creator of the universe would probably know this stuff.

Quote:
You mentioned some things that you, as you put it, "not okay with" that is fine. No argument there, you have your opinions and you are entitled to them, but it doesn't mean that they portray accuracy.
What do you mean by my opinions don't portray accuracy? To what? Morality?
Also my (implied) question was are you okay with them? If you are and fall into the sadist category, then you're a terrible person, but okay. If you do indeed have empathy, why do you knowingly worship a god who is crueler than your average human psychopath? If he does exist, his actions and our morality and sense of justice are completely different.



What do you mean you clicked on it and they were actually contradictions? I just told you they give not context. I can quote you right now and make a contradiction if I chose, something like choosing your first sentence and your last and put them together (Which I am not saying is a contradiction, but just for examples sake) You find them and believe what you read on there because you may not know what the full scriptures say, since when I read them I didn't find contradictions, but remembering context, I knew they assumed wrongly.

You said: "Do you think every contradiction anyone finds is automatically out of context? Because even a small contradiction as rabbits chewing cud and snakes eating dirt is still a contradiction considering the creator of the universe would probably know this stuff."

You didn't post scripture so I cannot respond to everything. But as far as "snake that eats dirt.". That is in Genesis and its not a contradiction. Its a metaphor for a ground dwelling slithering creature that was being ridiculed. The snake in Genesis is neither literal, it portrays deceptiveness, the character of Satan.

You said: "What do you mean by my opinions don't portray accuracy? To what? Morality?
Also my (implied) question was are you okay with them? If you are and fall into the sadist category, then you're a terrible person, but okay. If you do indeed have empathy, why do you knowingly worship a god who is crueler than your average human psychopath? If he does exist, his actions and our morality and sense of justice are completely different. "

What I meant when I said your opinion may not portray accuracy, is that you are paraphrasing, , and all kinds of mistakes can come from paraphrasing. it is therefore an inaccurate portrayal to just "blabber" out.
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Faith described in the bible is not blind following. Perhaps you ought to be a little slower in your words. That wasn't very kind.

I'll add. I have faith because its always been reliable for me. I am sure I told you that too in the same response that I told you I have faith.

If you don't understand the person or what he is saying then you wont make a response that can be understood either, which produces argumentation and fighting.


You're misunderstanding me. Actually, taking the statement out of context... >_> I was referring to her description of the Christians who "admit some of what is in it reflects human thinking..." yet still don't think that maybe, just maybe, the whole thing might be written by humans. If you take offense to that because maybe you find fault in the bible but still choose to invest your life in it and ignore the atrocities and contradictions and even worse want others to follow also and live by rules set in it: I'll tell you that it isn't unkind but an observation and tell you what is truly unkind is believing it's justified for billions to be sent into eternal fire for any reason.



If I have misunderstood you then it wasn't intentional.

I am not sure what that means "reflects human thinking." could you explain what that means.

btw, the only thing you said in that post was one thing. Which is - "I feel like such a dedicated amount of faith in something you know is flawed needs a morning mantra. X) "

If I took that out of context which was the only thing you said in that very post, then its your fault that it was taken out of context.

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