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As for your answer, I haven't found any contradictions yet. Everything people enjoy quoting as "contradictions" aren't truly contradictions. Multiple times in the bible, God is instructing a specific country or body of people and giving them their set of rules.


"And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth two by two; and gave them power over unclean spirits; and commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, except a staff only; no bag, no bread, no money in their purse."
- Mark 6:7-8 (King James 2000 translation)

"Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staff, nor bag, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece."
- Luke 9:1-3 (King James 2000 translation)


A lot of such "contradictions" are usually a problem with discrepancies with the translations between Hebrew/Greek into the English version. Here's a link

A Staff Or Not

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This is the extended discussion area.
There will be arguing, no doubt, an there is little you can do to stop it.

Question.

What denomination of Christianity are you in and why are you in that particular one instead of any other denomination?



Hm… I couldn't say. The church I currently attend (and plan to attend for years to come) contains a mix of denominations and is dedicated to the practical teaching of the Bible. We will consider other religions and discuss their relationship to ours, but we hold no specific denomination.

And I'm trying to reduce the likelihood of violent posting and gear it more towards a calm environment where we strictly discuss the questions. Not so much argue our beliefs onto each other.


How are you certain that you have chosen the correct religion, if there is such a thing as a correct religion?


I just have faith in what I've chosen to believe. There are a couple of things that help to reinforce it as well:
- I believe the bible has no contradictions (thus strengthening, for me, that God wrote the Bible through men)
- God is loving, and demands that we love everyone despite their, and our own, sins and flaws. This is the kind of life I want to live.
- And this might seem silly, but with the amount of people who dislike religion and look down on those who retain a faith, it helps me believe that I've chosen correctly. But it's not like I feed off the hate.


You merely have faith, and you somehow chose to believe something?
Now, as an Agnostic Atheist, this concept is confusing to me. I don't have faith at all, and I don't choose to believe anything. I do believe many things, but I only believe what I have evidence for. Keep in mind, when I hear the word faith, I usually, typically, mean, a belief that one has despite lack of evidence or evidence to the contrary.

Admittedly, faith has more than one definition:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith

In you mean faith, as in loyalty, I have that towards several people. If you mean faith, as in complete trust, I suppose I have that too, towards several people. If you mean faith, as in a trust in God, or a belief that has no proof to back it up, a belief in a religion, then no ... in those cases I do not have faith, and I cannot live my life based on that. Because of my lack of faith in these senses, I cannot have a religion. The lack of evidence for religions and the contradictory evidence against religions will not allow me to believe in them.

So, your life choice here is something I cannot comprehend. It confuses me. I do not hate you for it. I'm an American. I rather enjoy the legal right to have any religion you want, or not to have a religion at all.

As for the bible and contradictions, all one needs to do is a basic google search to see there are in fact contradictions in there. The bible is a compilation of several books, which are translations of even more ancient texts, all written by different authors with different point of views and opinions. It is impossible for there to not be contradictions. That's why Spongebob, the Nickelodeon character, changed over time from an intelligent, if naive, character into an insane, stalker, hyper, idiotic, manchild in the later episodes. Different writers. Is Spongebob an intelligent character or is he a stupid character? Depends on the writer. Can the Abrahamic god ever be seen by anyone? The answer depends on the writer.

Now, you claim the Abrahamic god is loving?
Is he also omniscient, and is he all-powerful? If he is omniscient and all powerful, you have a major morality problem. Every day, innocent children are violently RAPED by adults and sometimes older children. If a god is all-loving and all powerful and all-knowing, he shouldn't allow that to happen at all. He should prevent it. Well, obviously, your god does not prevent this from happening. He does not, whether he is able to or not, he DOES NOT PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING; IT HAPPENS. IT IS A FACT OF LIFE THAT CHILDREN GET RAPED. That's not the only horrible and unfortunate thing that happens, but I used my least favorite example.

If your god exists and is capable of stopping rape on children from happening, then it's obvious that he is not morally superior to anyone on this earth, because he seems perfectly fine with allowing rape to happen, and if he is proven to exist I would not worship him. If he wants to help, but is unable to help, then if I am shown proof that he exists, I would not worship him. There would be no point in worshiping a god that cannot do anything for you. I would be a Maltheist instead of an Atheist, or a Misotheist, depending on which word you want to use. A Maltheist believes there is a god, but also believes that this god is either evil or incompetent. However, I have no proof that there is any god, and so I am merely an Agnostic Atheist.

Now, how does the amount of people who do not have a religion or are against religion make you believe you have made the right choice? Is this like a reverse bandwagon concept?


First of all, let's debunk the misconception that God will just stop bad people. There is evil in the world. You can never prevent evil. God created the world for us to live and enjoy it in a moral and respectful way. There will always be people who abuse the life God gave them.

And besides that, if God could just… stop evil, if you will, then what is the purpose of the free will he gave us? Everyone has some sort of evil in themselves, whether it's in the form of sin or evil thoughts or feelings.

It's not God's way to just smite people where they stand. That rapist, murderer, homosexual, or polygamist have souls as well and they can receive God's love if they try.

I plan to finish answering, but I have to go to work now and don't have time to fully answer you. Please don't think I'm ignoring you or giving a half-hearted answer
Phatty Cat
Lucky~9~Lives
"And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth two by two; and gave them power over unclean spirits; and commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, except a staff only; no bag, no bread, no money in their purse."
- Mark 6:7-8 (King James 2000 translation)

"Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staff, nor bag, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece."
- Luke 9:1-3 (King James 2000 translation)


A lot of such "contradictions" are usually a problem with discrepancies with the translations between Hebrew/Greek into the English version. Here's a link

A Staff Or Not


Thank you. A lot of such "explanations" are usually elaborate eisegeses ("Jesus seems").

Phatty Cat
Blood Valkyrie
You merely have faith, and you somehow chose to believe something?
Now, as an Agnostic Atheist, this concept is confusing to me. I don't have faith at all, and I don't choose to believe anything. I do believe many things, but I only believe what I have evidence for. Keep in mind, when I hear the word faith, I usually, typically, mean, a belief that one has despite lack of evidence or evidence to the contrary.

Admittedly, faith has more than one definition:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith

In you mean faith, as in loyalty, I have that towards several people. If you mean faith, as in complete trust, I suppose I have that too, towards several people. If you mean faith, as in a trust in God, or a belief that has no proof to back it up, a belief in a religion, then no ... in those cases I do not have faith, and I cannot live my life based on that. Because of my lack of faith in these senses, I cannot have a religion. The lack of evidence for religions and the contradictory evidence against religions will not allow me to believe in them.

So, your life choice here is something I cannot comprehend. It confuses me. I do not hate you for it. I'm an American. I rather enjoy the legal right to have any religion you want, or not to have a religion at all.

As for the bible and contradictions, all one needs to do is a basic google search to see there are in fact contradictions in there. The bible is a compilation of several books, which are translations of even more ancient texts, all written by different authors with different point of views and opinions. It is impossible for there to not be contradictions. That's why Spongebob, the Nickelodeon character, changed over time from an intelligent, if naive, character into an insane, stalker, hyper, idiotic, manchild in the later episodes. Different writers. Is Spongebob an intelligent character or is he a stupid character? Depends on the writer. Can the Abrahamic god ever be seen by anyone? The answer depends on the writer.

Now, you claim the Abrahamic god is loving?
Is he also omniscient, and is he all-powerful? If he is omniscient and all powerful, you have a major morality problem. Every day, innocent children are violently RAPED by adults and sometimes older children. If a god is all-loving and all powerful and all-knowing, he shouldn't allow that to happen at all. He should prevent it. Well, obviously, your god does not prevent this from happening. He does not, whether he is able to or not, he DOES NOT PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING; IT HAPPENS. IT IS A FACT OF LIFE THAT CHILDREN GET RAPED. That's not the only horrible and unfortunate thing that happens, but I used my least favorite example.

If your god exists and is capable of stopping rape on children from happening, then it's obvious that he is not morally superior to anyone on this earth, because he seems perfectly fine with allowing rape to happen, and if he is proven to exist I would not worship him. If he wants to help, but is unable to help, then if I am shown proof that he exists, I would not worship him. There would be no point in worshiping a god that cannot do anything for you. I would be a Maltheist instead of an Atheist, or a Misotheist, depending on which word you want to use. A Maltheist believes there is a god, but also believes that this god is either evil or incompetent. However, I have no proof that there is any god, and so I am merely an Agnostic Atheist.

Now, how does the amount of people who do not have a religion or are against religion make you believe you have made the right choice? Is this like a reverse bandwagon concept?


First of all, let's debunk the misconception that God will just stop bad people. There is evil in the world. You can never prevent evil. God created the world for us to live and enjoy it in a moral and respectful way.


As above - either God can't stop those people from making the world a non-enjoyable place for us (and is hence not all-powerful), or god is okay with the world not being enjoyable for us.

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This is the extended discussion area.
There will be arguing, no doubt, an there is little you can do to stop it.

Question.

What denomination of Christianity are you in and why are you in that particular one instead of any other denomination?



Hm… I couldn't say. The church I currently attend (and plan to attend for years to come) contains a mix of denominations and is dedicated to the practical teaching of the Bible. We will consider other religions and discuss their relationship to ours, but we hold no specific denomination.

And I'm trying to reduce the likelihood of violent posting and gear it more towards a calm environment where we strictly discuss the questions. Not so much argue our beliefs onto each other.


How are you certain that you have chosen the correct religion, if there is such a thing as a correct religion?


I just have faith in what I've chosen to believe. There are a couple of things that help to reinforce it as well:
- I believe the bible has no contradictions (thus strengthening, for me, that God wrote the Bible through men)
- God is loving, and demands that we love everyone despite their, and our own, sins and flaws. This is the kind of life I want to live.
- And this might seem silly, but with the amount of people who dislike religion and look down on those who retain a faith, it helps me believe that I've chosen correctly. But it's not like I feed off the hate.


You merely have faith, and you somehow chose to believe something?
Now, as an Agnostic Atheist, this concept is confusing to me. I don't have faith at all, and I don't choose to believe anything. I do believe many things, but I only believe what I have evidence for. Keep in mind, when I hear the word faith, I usually, typically, mean, a belief that one has despite lack of evidence or evidence to the contrary.

Admittedly, faith has more than one definition:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith

In you mean faith, as in loyalty, I have that towards several people. If you mean faith, as in complete trust, I suppose I have that too, towards several people. If you mean faith, as in a trust in God, or a belief that has no proof to back it up, a belief in a religion, then no ... in those cases I do not have faith, and I cannot live my life based on that. Because of my lack of faith in these senses, I cannot have a religion. The lack of evidence for religions and the contradictory evidence against religions will not allow me to believe in them.

So, your life choice here is something I cannot comprehend. It confuses me. I do not hate you for it. I'm an American. I rather enjoy the legal right to have any religion you want, or not to have a religion at all.

As for the bible and contradictions, all one needs to do is a basic google search to see there are in fact contradictions in there. The bible is a compilation of several books, which are translations of even more ancient texts, all written by different authors with different point of views and opinions. It is impossible for there to not be contradictions. That's why Spongebob, the Nickelodeon character, changed over time from an intelligent, if naive, character into an insane, stalker, hyper, idiotic, manchild in the later episodes. Different writers. Is Spongebob an intelligent character or is he a stupid character? Depends on the writer. Can the Abrahamic god ever be seen by anyone? The answer depends on the writer.

Now, you claim the Abrahamic god is loving?
Is he also omniscient, and is he all-powerful? If he is omniscient and all powerful, you have a major morality problem. Every day, innocent children are violently RAPED by adults and sometimes older children. If a god is all-loving and all powerful and all-knowing, he shouldn't allow that to happen at all. He should prevent it. Well, obviously, your god does not prevent this from happening. He does not, whether he is able to or not, he DOES NOT PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING; IT HAPPENS. IT IS A FACT OF LIFE THAT CHILDREN GET RAPED. That's not the only horrible and unfortunate thing that happens, but I used my least favorite example.

If your god exists and is capable of stopping rape on children from happening, then it's obvious that he is not morally superior to anyone on this earth, because he seems perfectly fine with allowing rape to happen, and if he is proven to exist I would not worship him. If he wants to help, but is unable to help, then if I am shown proof that he exists, I would not worship him. There would be no point in worshiping a god that cannot do anything for you. I would be a Maltheist instead of an Atheist, or a Misotheist, depending on which word you want to use. A Maltheist believes there is a god, but also believes that this god is either evil or incompetent. However, I have no proof that there is any god, and so I am merely an Agnostic Atheist.

Now, how does the amount of people who do not have a religion or are against religion make you believe you have made the right choice? Is this like a reverse bandwagon concept?


First of all, let's debunk the misconception that God will just stop bad people. There is evil in the world. You can never prevent evil. God created the world for us to live and enjoy it in a moral and respectful way. There will always be people who abuse the life God gave them.

And besides that, if God could just… stop evil, if you will, then what is the purpose of the free will he gave us? Everyone has some sort of evil in themselves, whether it's in the form of sin or evil thoughts or feelings.

It's not God's way to just smite people where they stand. That rapist, murderer, homosexual, or polygamist have souls as well and they can receive God's love if they try.

I plan to finish answering, but I have to go to work now and don't have time to fully answer you. Please don't think I'm ignoring you or giving a half-hearted answer


I can't prevent evil, because I'm not an all-powerful god. What about your Abrahamic god? He won't stop evil? Then, what use is he to me, assuming he exists? This god you claim exists doesn't seem worth it. So, I'm wondering why you aren't at least a Maltheist. As for free will, assuming your god gave it to humans, we would use our free will to enjoy the lack of child rapists, if your god did stop people from raping children.

Also ... according to the bible, your god does kind of smite people ... a lot. A whole lot. We're talking genocidal murder.

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Do you believe that God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent?

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Eisegeses, is not the correct word and no, they are not the only reason for seeming discrepancies. Not every translation is a perfect translation. In order to be able to understand and interpret the Bible perfectly, you must be able to read its original Hebrew wording and meaning. For example, the Greek language has two main words for our single english word "love". Eros, philia, and agape. The first is the erotic love between lovers. The second is brotherly love (hence, Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love). The last, is the love used to name God's unconditional love for us.

Many people using the Bible to support their push for homosexual rights in saying that "in the Bible, God says to love everyone. Therefore it shouldn't be illegal." The word "love" used in that particular sense is the Greek word philia which means that we should provide a brotherly love towards everyone. Not a sexual, erotic love that would be eros. The same may go for a declared contradiction.

And second, I did not start this thread to be mocked. It's here to answer any questions people may have, not for me to endure sass.
Phatty Cat
In order to be able to understand and interpret the Bible perfectly, you must be able to read its original Hebrew wording and meaning.


Hence the doubt about your ability to assess whether the Bible is free from contradiction.

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Blood Valkyrie


Okay, I'm going to start over now that I have ample time to give you a full answer.

So let's start with the common question: "Why does God let bad things happen?"
Now let's break this up into three parts, according to what exactly you may be trying to ask.

1. Why doesn't God smite people for doing bad things?
2. Why doesn't God prevent the sinner from committing his sin?
3. Why doesn't God remove evil from the world?

Before I start, remember that there is no sin that is greater than the other. Every sin is of equal magnitude in God's eyes. One man might lie and one man might commit murder and the next, rape. God does not look at the liar and think, "He only lied, he can go to heaven. The others will go to hell." Unlike us, where we see these sins as of different importance, God sees them as completely equal, because he created them as equal sins. Now, there is debate about the Unforgivable Sin, but we can get to that sometime later after we finish this discussion first.

1. Why doesn't God smite people for doing bad things?
Okay, so let's put this into the scenario where a woman murders a guy. God strikes her down in prison with a heart attack. According to his Word, since all sin is equal, he will also have the man, who lied to his boss about being sick, get into a car accident on his way to the movies. You must understand that God doesn't look at the world in the way we do. He doesn't see the murderer as more deserving of punishment than the man who lied.
Second, if God just killed anyone committing a sin, we would all be dead. Everyone.
Third, let's say God just killed people who committed a terrible sin (such as murder or rape). No one would ever commit those sins again out of fear of death (they might not know the death came from God though). But consider this, God is about forgiveness and unconditional love. He loves us all the same, but he despises our sin. No matter what we do, he will always love us. We, are his children. So why would he deny one child's chance to beg for forgiveness by killed him after his sin? This goes completely against what he stands for and the way he wants us to live.
If I ever had the misfortune to be raped, or murdered, I would forgive the man or woman who did it (I would forgive the murderer from heaven). Just as I would forgive those who have lied to me in an equal manner. This is what it means to be a Christian, one that follows God's Word.

Why doesn't God prevent the sinner from committing his sin?
This will be broken into two parts, one being the “yesterday” and one being the far past.
In the sense of the “yesterday” let’s say I was going home from work in a large city. I decide to turn down an alley as a shortcut, but someone jumped me and I was raped. So why doesn’t God prevent me from turning down that dark alley?
What kind of free will is that? God gives me the freedom to make my own choice, which means I also have the choice to follow him or not. I also have the choice to head down that alley, and that rapist had the choice to attack me. With free will comes those who want to abuse it. God does not control what we do. His Word might influence us, but he will never force us to do anything. You currently have the choice to continue debating this, you could leave, or you could change the topic. A teenager has the choice to lie to his mother about how school is going, tell her the truth, or ignore it. The murderer has the choice to leave his intended victim alone, commit the crime and run, or turn himself in afterwards.
God did not create robots. Robots have algorithms, patterns they must follow and rules they must absolutely abide by with no say in the matter. You would not be able to debate with me if God wanted to control us. I would not have started this thread if everyone followed God’s rules. We have choices, and God gave us the free will to make those choices.
You say you would enjoy your free will to remove child rapists? That’s what people try to do. That’s why the law exists; to preserve our natural rights as human beings. You have a choice to become a policewoman to help catch these child rapists, or to raise awareness to defeat the problem. That random stranger has the choice to become that rapist. No one can consider themselves above another, no matter how many sins you’ve committed in comparison to the other. If God is to stop that person from committing their sin, he should stop you as well. But he isn’t, is he? Consider how many times you’ve lied. God allows you to do such. I’ve lied so many times, it’s not remotely funny, but honestly, I’m average with the “normal” person. I have that choice to continue lying. I’ll try my best not to, but I will in the future. This is the free will He gave me. If God wanted perfect robots, he would create perfect robots that are there to continuously serve and praise him.

Now for the “far” past.
And I will restate, that all sins are equal in God’s eyes, but I will only use the sins we consider of greater magnitude such as rape or murder.
So let’s say God prevents that child, who grows up to be the child rapist I used earlier, from having a bad childhood that formed him into that sinner. Or He shielded the child from the bad influences that caused the child to become the rapist. Now you have this approximately perfect world. But once again, he will only be able to do so by controlling this child or controlling those who made him the way he is. I will refer to my earlier statements about how important free will is for us. We are given the choice to use it for good or for evil. Most of us will use it for good, but some of us will choose to be evil. And we can try to stop it, but evil will be rampant despite our best efforts.

Why doesn't God remove evil from the world?
Simple. He would have created a perfect world with robots (in the metaphorical sense) instead of humans. We wouldn’t be discussing this problem right now.

And those countries He smote? They were overrun with sin. God gave them a chance to ask for forgiveness and safety from the destruction He was to bring upon them, but they rejected or ignored Him and thus, brought their own destruction.
Phatty Cat
Why doesn't God remove evil from the world?
Simple. He would have created a perfect world with robots (in the metaphorical sense) instead of humans. We wouldn’t be discussing this problem right now.


And we would be enjoying life.
- ninja

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Phatty Cat
In order to be able to understand and interpret the Bible perfectly, you must be able to read its original Hebrew wording and meaning.


Hence the doubt about your ability to assess whether the Bible is free from contradiction.


I am not an expert in the Hebrew or Greek language, but I have yet to encounter a contradiction that cannot be disproved. I personally believe the Bible is absolutely free from contradictions, and this will not change. And in my opening post to this thread, I also stated that I am not an expert in the Bible but I will respond with what I've learned and what I've researched. Never will I answer a question without sufficient research to back up my claims.

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Do you believe that God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent?


Yes, and I must admit that it is terrifying to me that my God can do anything, but I accept it.

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Phatty Cat
Why doesn't God remove evil from the world?
Simple. He would have created a perfect world with robots (in the metaphorical sense) instead of humans. We wouldn’t be discussing this problem right now.


And we would be enjoying life.
- ninja


Do you want to live a controlled life? Where you have limited choices? Where you have no choice but to follow God's word, be nice to everyone (because evil thoughts are bad), never lie, and never have sexual thoughts about anyone except for your significant other? God didn't create us just to control our lives. Besides, if you feel so strongly about making the world happy, do something about it.

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As for my choice about my faith, it's hard for me to explain. I believe the Bible has the necessary evidence, people's testimonies, my own revelation, the parallels between Bible stories and modern discoveries, and a few smaller things make me believe that I've chosen correctly. But I will never claim that my belief was due to some "divine power" that pushed me towards Christianity. I was born into and raised by a Christian family and thus grew up with it. But like I've said before, with my experience with other religions and the way they work, I prefer Christianity and believe it's correct. But that's just me.
Phatty Cat
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Phatty Cat
Why doesn't God remove evil from the world?
Simple. He would have created a perfect world with robots (in the metaphorical sense) instead of humans. We wouldn’t be discussing this problem right now.


And we would be enjoying life.
- ninja


Do you want to live a controlled life? Where you have limited choices?


Welcome to reality.

Phatty Cat
God didn't create us just to control our lives.


God created us to make the world non-enjoyable for us - or, again, he lacks the power to stop us.

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Phatty Cat
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Phatty Cat
Why doesn't God remove evil from the world?
Simple. He would have created a perfect world with robots (in the metaphorical sense) instead of humans. We wouldn’t be discussing this problem right now.


And we would be enjoying life.
- ninja


Do you want to live a controlled life? Where you have limited choices?


Welcome to reality.

Phatty Cat
God didn't create us just to control our lives.


God created us to make the world non-enjoyable for us - or, again, he lacks the power to stop us.


No, being constantly controlled isn't reality. Maybe you have limited choices, but that can be changed. How hard it is to change, depends on where you currently are, but it can change. And go one week without committing a single sin. Look at these, then refrain from doing any of them.
Decent List of Sins

And I'm not sure I understand your point here. That's like saying you had a baby just to make the child's life miserable. Or when that child grows up, you, despite being the father, lack the power to stop your kid. You had that baby so you could raise him/her to be happy and successful and to make yourself happy as well with the miracle you made. God wanted us to be happy, so he let's us do what we want but when it gets to the end, we will receive our due for the life we've led and if we've accepted him.

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