An open invatation

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God tried to show us miracls in te past and yet we still refused him, why should he have to prove himself?

Because we are not our Ancestors, we are completely different people two thousand years removed, with different ideas, different lives, different circumstances, and no Logical reason to believe anything the Bible says, any more than you have reason to believe anything in the Veda's is corrrect.

I would presume, you would want a Hindu a Sikh or a Muslim to back up why they are right, or how there God(version of God) exists, why can't you do the same thing to your own God?
Why should he not present himself to you, a person who has no sound reason to belive in his existance?

Quote:

He created life as we know it, he is God. God knows what he is doing, humans are to imperfet that we could never have the level of understanding he does

.
So if he is perfect, why can' he show us , in a simple easy to understand way?

Quote:

So who are we to try and test him when we are in no position to be pointin fingres?

We are his Creations, with our own senses and minds, and a brain designed to function and act of evidence and experiances, God designed us this way.

If he want's us to take him seriously, he should play to the way he designed us.

Yes?

Quote:

Espically with how bad we've cause the world to get.

Rememer, God causes pain and suffereing to.
You have said it yourself.
As does the Bible

Oh yes because we've proven so well how we have changed by ruining the world we live in and killing each other.

We have always been doing that.
However the way we live, and our understanding of the world is very different than it was 2000 years ago, our Scientific Knowldege, or Ethical and Moral frameworks are in some ways better, some ways worse.

We are different indeed, but what's so hard in giving us a Miracle that lasts, or giving us one more for "this" generation?

Expecting us to just blindly beleive what our ancestors told us happened, as truth is dangerous and unrealistic.

Quote:

The fact is, Jesus will be showing himself again when the time is right, we jut have to be patient and accept that God knows when that is. nd just so you know, I have plenty of reason to believe in his existance do to my own personal events with him.

I agree, Jesus(Peace and Blessings of God be upon him) will return, and he will lead a mighty army and destroy the Djall once and for all, and then he will lead mankind back to the true and proper worship and religion of Allah(swt).

Quote:

He should play the way he designed us? No, because if he did that then he wouldn't be an all knowing and powerful God. He'd just be another one of us

No he wouldn't
This is an absurd and illogical statement.

And who are we to demand such things of him after he's given us so much already? We've proven that as a species we are not trustworthy or deserving of any more that we already have.

Secondly, Jesus isn't going to destroy the Devil, he's going to send him to Hell where his eternal punishment will be.

I didn't say Jesus (peace and blessings of God be upon him) is going to destroy the Devil?
Where did I say that?

Jesus(Peace and blessings of God be upon him) does not have the power to destroy the Devil, for he is a man, nothing more.
That kind of power lies only with God.

[stealthmongoose]

stealthmongoose

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stealthmongoose

Ah, i see, well that raises the question to two questions, one of which remains unanswered, though i will rephrase it to help, as it was admittedly vague.

1. How is 'Black Magic', if you allow us to use the connotation here...different from Christianity's 'White/Divine Magic' or faith/belief in Jesus?

2. What is your Opinion on Magicians like David Blaine, Chris Angel, and the Masked Magician? How is what these people do and those like them different from what your religion does?

Black Magic is anything that is not from God, meaning it can only come from one other place, Satan. Anything that that comes from Satan is automatically evil because Satan is evil.

As for your second question, I honestly have never hered of any of those people before so I don't have an opinion for you, sorry.

1. So the only real difference is the source? Somehow i can't see that answer as explanatory. Putting up a human for sacrifice to a God or putting up a human to sacrifice for black magic is pretty much the same thing. I'm willing to bet science and any other way of understanding the universe outside of the holy book was considered black magic in those times.

2. Well, they are quite popular. Many people tune in to their tricks, illusions, and stunts for the reason of being entertained, as you so put it. I however, can look into that practice and see WHY people watch magicians, and WHY they enjoy it; It's because they want to be fooled.



The above magician in the video is known as David Blaine. Now that you have seen him perform a textbook example of a miracle, what is your view on the difference between what Cris Angel does, and what your religion does?

You need to remember, people did not Sacrafice Jesus to God, they persacuted him for his belifes. In fact most of those people there hated him and where killing him because they hated him. Second, Jesus was not only human but also a part of God. This was to prove to all humans that God loved us so muh he was willing to give up something he loved very dealry for us, and Jesus himself willingly gave his life to safe us. There is a big difference here. What Jesus did, he did to save our lives, what people do to for black magic is nothing but pure evil because it is done only to hurt others. Humans are stubborn and want proof that God loves us, and yet here they turn away the biggest gift he ever gave us.


As for the guy who performed the trick, that is either A. Just all that it is, a trick. B. Maybe he's a devote christian and can actually do that stuff or C. Black magic to try and disprove the Bible.
God does not force us to do anything. Nor will he stop our actions as we have free will so how ever this guy is doing it is his on his own self. I do not enjoy magic shows myself as it has never really entertained me, but I have nothing against them as I know they are nothing but tricks.

My next question comes at point 10:00 in the first video, so the segment is 4 minutes long. Can you verify or deny any of the information provided on this subject? More importantly at 13:30 there is an important annotation regarding direct involvement with new testament scripture and old in relevance to my original point about blood sacrifice. What is your response to this? Lastly, at the beginning of the upcoming video, almost instantly, there's the instigation of caesar's actual involvement in the events of the new testament.



Given these evidences in relevance to scripture makes it very likely that the crucifixion could have been such a blasphemious magic trick, which brings me to my next point...


You seem to have trouble assessing this particular trick. In the beginning of your paragraph you assert that the man is doing whatever he's doing by no less than FOUR possibilities, ONE of which includes a divine possibility of him being an overtly blessed devotee Christian. You then assert that God probably has NOTHING to do with this aside from letting the guy do whatever he wants, absent of his will. And speaking of black magic, i believe my previous point outlines that even white or divine magic harms people, in this case one very unfortunately famous sacrifice that was given the title of Messiah.

Before we go on though, i have to give you a high five and a congratulations for your usage of logic and assessment of possibilities, since out of the FOUR ANSWERS you chose, one of them happened to be right!



I would pat you on the back, but i don't have the cab fare. We have to leave the drunken revelry of your incredible success for just a moment here so that we can get down to one last awe-inspiring question...

If Rome pulls a big magic trick and kills a guy...why is that worth less scrutiny than Cris Angel pulling a big magic trick and killing no-one!?

Oh...wait, that's right that's right. It's because of the manual that was written when Rome was conquering everyone. The book that tells you how the magic trick was done from the eyes of the people who weren't involved in the trick and how to look at the trick.

So I ask you, can you honestly say you've given the execution of Christ as much scrutiny as this trick? Still, that was a pretty good SET of guesses on your part, as tricks, much like really good fictional books...

Can almost seem possible.

@OP: Then i shall leave these awe-inspiringly difficult questions to those who can.

[Fates Oblivion]

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Yet Judaism and Islam have the exact same God, how are you sure you are following the correct interpretation of the faith?

Because I know in my heart. I know that's not the answer you want but it's the only one I have.

But the Bible says

Quote:

He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool:
Proverbs 28:26

What do you say to all the people who trust there heart, and end up as Muslims, or Hindus or any other Faith?

If you don't know why you trust the Bible above any other Text, I would if I were you...start studying.
Study hard, from all points of view, Christian, Atheist, Other Religions Opinion the Bible.

Yes, someone who trusts in his heart alone is doing it wrong because you also have to trust in God and read the word. I read my Bible everyday and thus I keep my Spiritual heart well fed. I am not trusting in my heart alone or the past events but also on the words of the Bible. Combinding the two, I have a trust that I know is real.

Don't you see the Problem with this?

This is what you have just said.

1)"Trusting my heart is wrong"
2)"However it's ok if you trust your heart and read the bible"
3)"How do I know I can trust the bible?"
4)"Because I trust my heart"
...trusting your heart is wrong remember.

How is your statemenet any more valid than me saying the exact same thing but replacing bible with Holy Qur'an.

The bible itself says to trust in it, beyond that you cannot do anymore. If you can't trust te Bible then you obviously have no desire to trust God.

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Because I know in my heart. I know that's not the answer you want but it's the only one I have.

But the Bible says

Quote:

He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool:
Proverbs 28:26

What do you say to all the people who trust there heart, and end up as Muslims, or Hindus or any other Faith?

If you don't know why you trust the Bible above any other Text, I would if I were you...start studying.
Study hard, from all points of view, Christian, Atheist, Other Religions Opinion the Bible.

Yes, someone who trusts in his heart alone is doing it wrong because you also have to trust in God and read the word. I read my Bible everyday and thus I keep my Spiritual heart well fed. I am not trusting in my heart alone or the past events but also on the words of the Bible. Combinding the two, I have a trust that I know is real.

Don't you see the Problem with this?

This is what you have just said.

1)"Trusting my heart is wrong"
2)"However it's ok if you trust your heart and read the bible"
3)"How do I know I can trust the bible?"
4)"Because I trust my heart"
...trusting your heart is wrong remember.

How is your statemenet any more valid than me saying the exact same thing but replacing bible with Holy Qur'an.

The bible itself says to trust in it, beyond that you cannot do anymore. If you can't trust te Bible then you obviously have no desire to trust God.

On the Contrary, I desire nothing more fully than to trust God.

Which is why I don't trust the Bible...and instead I trust fully the Qur'an.

[Fates Oblivion]

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The Real Mikuo Hatsune

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Because we are not our Ancestors, we are completely different people two thousand years removed, with different ideas, different lives, different circumstances, and no Logical reason to believe anything the Bible says, any more than you have reason to believe anything in the Veda's is corrrect.

I would presume, you would want a Hindu a Sikh or a Muslim to back up why they are right, or how there God(version of God) exists, why can't you do the same thing to your own God?
Why should he not present himself to you, a person who has no sound reason to belive in his existance?

.
So if he is perfect, why can' he show us , in a simple easy to understand way?

We are his Creations, with our own senses and minds, and a brain designed to function and act of evidence and experiances, God designed us this way.

If he want's us to take him seriously, he should play to the way he designed us.

Yes?



Rememer, God causes pain and suffereing to.
You have said it yourself.
As does the Bible

Oh yes because we've proven so well how we have changed by ruining the world we live in and killing each other.

We have always been doing that.
However the way we live, and our understanding of the world is very different than it was 2000 years ago, our Scientific Knowldege, or Ethical and Moral frameworks are in some ways better, some ways worse.

We are different indeed, but what's so hard in giving us a Miracle that lasts, or giving us one more for "this" generation?

Expecting us to just blindly beleive what our ancestors told us happened, as truth is dangerous and unrealistic.

Quote:

The fact is, Jesus will be showing himself again when the time is right, we jut have to be patient and accept that God knows when that is. nd just so you know, I have plenty of reason to believe in his existance do to my own personal events with him.

I agree, Jesus(Peace and Blessings of God be upon him) will return, and he will lead a mighty army and destroy the Djall once and for all, and then he will lead mankind back to the true and proper worship and religion of Allah(swt).

Quote:

He should play the way he designed us? No, because if he did that then he wouldn't be an all knowing and powerful God. He'd just be another one of us

No he wouldn't
This is an absurd and illogical statement.

And who are we to demand such things of him after he's given us so much already? We've proven that as a species we are not trustworthy or deserving of any more that we already have.

Secondly, Jesus isn't going to destroy the Devil, he's going to send him to Hell where his eternal punishment will be.

I didn't say Jesus (peace and blessings of God be upon him) is going to destroy the Devil?
Where did I say that?

Jesus(Peace and blessings of God be upon him) does not have the power to destroy the Devil, for he is a man, nothing more.
That kind of power lies only with God.

Quote:

I agree, Jesus(Peace and Blessings of God be upon him) will return, and he will lead a mighty army and destroy the Djall once and for all, and then he will lead mankind back to the true and proper worship and religion of Allah(swt)

I looked it up online and Djall is transelated into Devil

[Fates Oblivion]

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But the Bible says


What do you say to all the people who trust there heart, and end up as Muslims, or Hindus or any other Faith?

If you don't know why you trust the Bible above any other Text, I would if I were you...start studying.
Study hard, from all points of view, Christian, Atheist, Other Religions Opinion the Bible.

Yes, someone who trusts in his heart alone is doing it wrong because you also have to trust in God and read the word. I read my Bible everyday and thus I keep my Spiritual heart well fed. I am not trusting in my heart alone or the past events but also on the words of the Bible. Combinding the two, I have a trust that I know is real.

Don't you see the Problem with this?

This is what you have just said.

1)"Trusting my heart is wrong"
2)"However it's ok if you trust your heart and read the bible"
3)"How do I know I can trust the bible?"
4)"Because I trust my heart"
...trusting your heart is wrong remember.

How is your statemenet any more valid than me saying the exact same thing but replacing bible with Holy Qur'an.

The bible itself says to trust in it, beyond that you cannot do anymore. If you can't trust te Bible then you obviously have no desire to trust God.

On the Contrary, I desire nothing more fully than to trust God.

Which is why I don't trust the Bible...and instead I trust fully the Qur'an.

If I may ask, why? What does the Qur'an prove more about God then the Bible.

[Haha Coffee]

The Real Mikuo Hatsune

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Oh yes because we've proven so well how we have changed by ruining the world we live in and killing each other.

We have always been doing that.
However the way we live, and our understanding of the world is very different than it was 2000 years ago, our Scientific Knowldege, or Ethical and Moral frameworks are in some ways better, some ways worse.

We are different indeed, but what's so hard in giving us a Miracle that lasts, or giving us one more for "this" generation?

Expecting us to just blindly beleive what our ancestors told us happened, as truth is dangerous and unrealistic.

Quote:

The fact is, Jesus will be showing himself again when the time is right, we jut have to be patient and accept that God knows when that is. nd just so you know, I have plenty of reason to believe in his existance do to my own personal events with him.

I agree, Jesus(Peace and Blessings of God be upon him) will return, and he will lead a mighty army and destroy the Djall once and for all, and then he will lead mankind back to the true and proper worship and religion of Allah(swt).

Quote:

He should play the way he designed us? No, because if he did that then he wouldn't be an all knowing and powerful God. He'd just be another one of us

No he wouldn't
This is an absurd and illogical statement.

And who are we to demand such things of him after he's given us so much already? We've proven that as a species we are not trustworthy or deserving of any more that we already have.

Secondly, Jesus isn't going to destroy the Devil, he's going to send him to Hell where his eternal punishment will be.

I didn't say Jesus (peace and blessings of God be upon him) is going to destroy the Devil?
Where did I say that?

Jesus(Peace and blessings of God be upon him) does not have the power to destroy the Devil, for he is a man, nothing more.
That kind of power lies only with God.

Quote:

I agree, Jesus(Peace and Blessings of God be upon him) will return, and he will lead a mighty army and destroy the Djall once and for all, and then he will lead mankind back to the true and proper worship and religion of Allah(swt)

I looked it up online and Djall is transelated into Devil

You used the worlds worst Arabic Translator then.

Dajjal(Djal)l is the Anti-Christ, not the Devil.

[Fates Oblivion]

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We have always been doing that.
However the way we live, and our understanding of the world is very different than it was 2000 years ago, our Scientific Knowldege, or Ethical and Moral frameworks are in some ways better, some ways worse.

We are different indeed, but what's so hard in giving us a Miracle that lasts, or giving us one more for "this" generation?

Expecting us to just blindly beleive what our ancestors told us happened, as truth is dangerous and unrealistic.



I agree, Jesus(Peace and Blessings of God be upon him) will return, and he will lead a mighty army and destroy the Djall once and for all, and then he will lead mankind back to the true and proper worship and religion of Allah(swt).


No he wouldn't
This is an absurd and illogical statement.

And who are we to demand such things of him after he's given us so much already? We've proven that as a species we are not trustworthy or deserving of any more that we already have.

Secondly, Jesus isn't going to destroy the Devil, he's going to send him to Hell where his eternal punishment will be.

I didn't say Jesus (peace and blessings of God be upon him) is going to destroy the Devil?
Where did I say that?

Jesus(Peace and blessings of God be upon him) does not have the power to destroy the Devil, for he is a man, nothing more.
That kind of power lies only with God.

Quote:

I agree, Jesus(Peace and Blessings of God be upon him) will return, and he will lead a mighty army and destroy the Djall once and for all, and then he will lead mankind back to the true and proper worship and religion of Allah(swt)

I looked it up online and Djall is transelated into Devil

You used the worlds worst Arabic Translator then.

Dajjal(Djal)l is the Anti-Christ, not the Devil.

I see, my bad.

[Haha Coffee]

The Real Mikuo Hatsune

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But the Bible says


What do you say to all the people who trust there heart, and end up as Muslims, or Hindus or any other Faith?

If you don't know why you trust the Bible above any other Text, I would if I were you...start studying.
Study hard, from all points of view, Christian, Atheist, Other Religions Opinion the Bible.

Yes, someone who trusts in his heart alone is doing it wrong because you also have to trust in God and read the word. I read my Bible everyday and thus I keep my Spiritual heart well fed. I am not trusting in my heart alone or the past events but also on the words of the Bible. Combinding the two, I have a trust that I know is real.

Don't you see the Problem with this?

This is what you have just said.

1)"Trusting my heart is wrong"
2)"However it's ok if you trust your heart and read the bible"
3)"How do I know I can trust the bible?"
4)"Because I trust my heart"
...trusting your heart is wrong remember.

How is your statemenet any more valid than me saying the exact same thing but replacing bible with Holy Qur'an.

The bible itself says to trust in it, beyond that you cannot do anymore. If you can't trust te Bible then you obviously have no desire to trust God.

On the Contrary, I desire nothing more fully than to trust God.

Which is why I don't trust the Bible...and instead I trust fully the Qur'an.

If I may ask, why? What does the Qur'an prove more about God then the Bible.

The Bible is a book , with over 38 human Authors, compiled over 1400 years, with competing Theologies, littered full of contradictions and full of glaring Editations and revisions by later Authors, and also missing text.

It functions mostly as a Historical Narrative with huge Author Bias and a very narrow theological perspective, that's when it's not just poetry or wrongfully cannonised letters from varying church groups


The Qur'an, is one book, with one Author(God) and is not only a discourse and rulebook for the Ummah, but is in it's very nature of text a Miracle, a book which contains Miraculous qualities. is unrepdocuable and stands as a testament for mankind throughout the ages.

Pick up the book "Living World of the Old Testament" it's a standard read for most Biblical History and Scriptural Study students in the worlds best Seminarys and Theological Universitys.

If by Chapter five you don't see how much of a hodgepode man made kafuffle it is.
Your probably beyond help.

[Fates Oblivion]

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The Real Mikuo Hatsune

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The Real Mikuo Hatsune

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Don't you see the Problem with this?

This is what you have just said.

1)"Trusting my heart is wrong"
2)"However it's ok if you trust your heart and read the bible"
3)"How do I know I can trust the bible?"
4)"Because I trust my heart"
...trusting your heart is wrong remember.

How is your statemenet any more valid than me saying the exact same thing but replacing bible with Holy Qur'an.

The bible itself says to trust in it, beyond that you cannot do anymore. If you can't trust te Bible then you obviously have no desire to trust God.

On the Contrary, I desire nothing more fully than to trust God.

Which is why I don't trust the Bible...and instead I trust fully the Qur'an.

If I may ask, why? What does the Qur'an prove more about God then the Bible.

The Bible is a book , with over 38 human Authors, compiled over 1400 years, with competing Theologies, littered full of contradictions and full of glaring Editations and revisions by later Authors, and also missing text.

It functions mostly as a Historical Narrative with huge Author Bias and a very narrow theological perspective, that's when it's not just poetry or wrongfully cannonised letters from varying church groups


The Qur'an, is one book, with one Author(God) and is not only a discourse and rulebook for the Ummah, but is in it's very nature of text a Miracle, a book which contains Miraculous qualities. is unrepdocuable and stands as a testament for mankind throughout the ages.

I see a problem here though. How can you have a Qur'an if a person did not put it together? The fact that there are multiple of them in the world and that they even exist means that a human had to write it out. Just as you say with the Bible, how can you be sure that the Qur'an was not influenced by humans? The fact is you still have to trust that those of that set religion are telling the truth of what they wrote, not to mention you have no proofe ( just as christians don't ) that God wrote it himself.

[Haha Coffee]

The Real Mikuo Hatsune

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Don't you see the Problem with this?

This is what you have just said.

1)"Trusting my heart is wrong"
2)"However it's ok if you trust your heart and read the bible"
3)"How do I know I can trust the bible?"
4)"Because I trust my heart"
...trusting your heart is wrong remember.

How is your statemenet any more valid than me saying the exact same thing but replacing bible with Holy Qur'an.

The bible itself says to trust in it, beyond that you cannot do anymore. If you can't trust te Bible then you obviously have no desire to trust God.

On the Contrary, I desire nothing more fully than to trust God.

Which is why I don't trust the Bible...and instead I trust fully the Qur'an.

If I may ask, why? What does the Qur'an prove more about God then the Bible.

The Bible is a book , with over 38 human Authors, compiled over 1400 years, with competing Theologies, littered full of contradictions and full of glaring Editations and revisions by later Authors, and also missing text.

It functions mostly as a Historical Narrative with huge Author Bias and a very narrow theological perspective, that's when it's not just poetry or wrongfully cannonised letters from varying church groups


The Qur'an, is one book, with one Author(God) and is not only a discourse and rulebook for the Ummah, but is in it's very nature of text a Miracle, a book which contains Miraculous qualities. is unrepdocuable and stands as a testament for mankind throughout the ages.

I see a problem here though. How can you have a Qur'an if a person did not put it together? The fact that there are multiple of them in the world and that they even exist means that a human had to write it out. Just as you say with the Bible, how can you be sure that the Qur'an was not influenced by humans? The fact is you still have to trust that those of that set religion are telling the truth of what they wrote, not to mention you have no proofe ( just as christians don't ) that God wrote it himself.

As to your compilation claim, any Hafiz(A Hafiz is someone who can recite the whole Qur'an by heart, there are about 20 million currently alive, and ten times that who know half or vast portions) can trace there recitation, comma for comma all the way back to Mohammed(pbuh) or to the Companions of Mohammed(pbuh). They can litterally say "I Learned from..who learned from.who learned from" all the way back to either Mohammed, Aisha, Abu Bakr, Uthman or another major Companion(blessings be upon them all)

And there were thousands of Hafiz alive at the time it was put to pen.

The written version of the Qur'an only exists and indeed was only brought into existance as a learning aid for those who's memories were not so advanced, it is primarily an Oral tool that is group checked.
When it was wrote down(twenty years after Mohammeds(pbuh) death) it was confirmed to be accurate by the closest of the Prophets companions...and if they had put into print a Qur'an that was in error even by a word, it would have been known, thousands of people would have known and would have either A)Said something about it or B)Start narrating a varying version of the Qur'an.

This didn't happen...in the full light of recorded history, in scriptural or oral tradition.
It's word for word, dot for dot, ink for ink exactly the same as it was as it came from Mohammeds mouth.

As for how can we tell it's from God?
Examine the text, it's miraculous, the combination of words, vowels and rhythm is un-reproducable the naration itself is innately miraculous, it is the most advanced form of Arabic poetry ever produced in history to this day Objectively(that's important, objectively by mathamtical and testable critiera) unmatched, made at the time of the Arab Poetic pinnacle, by a camel trader..who was famed for being both Illterate and poor with words.

The single "best" Biblical Text in existance that even comes close to this, is Mark, which is a compilation of 2nd and 3rd hand accounts, compiled 36 years after Jesus died...by a man who never met him.

From there...they get worse.

[Lucky~9~Lives]

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As for how can we tell it's from God?
Examine the text, it's miraculous, the combination of words, vowels and rhythm is un-reproducable the naration itself is innately miraculous, it is the most advanced form of Arabic poetry ever produced in history to this day Objectively(that's important, objectively by mathamtical and testable critiera) unmatched, made at the time of the Arab Poetic pinnacle, by a camel trader..who was famed for being both Illterate and poor with words.

So's the I-Ching.

Seriously, I've seen the sites. o_o

I think it even mentions a camel in one place.

[TANRailgun]

The Real Mikuo Hatsune

Genocide? And where did this take place? If you mean Hitlar, last I checked there are still Jewish people around. But I know what you mean, Hitlar was a human being, ergo, he had the will to choose what he did. As I said, Go does not act all the time with our lives as a part of our free will, and thuse why Hitlar was able to do what he did. He once acted activily in our lives and we still disobeyed him, what's to say we wouldn't do the same these days? People say that if they see it they will belive it, guess what? They said that back then to.
As for the going back in time and killing baby hitler thing. babies in themselves are pure, such are as children. Hitler did not make his bad choices till he was an adult, so no, killing young Hitler would be bad.

Would you like examples of genocide in the bible or in history? And would you like examples of genocide perpetrated by your god or by people? And just because few genocides have succeeded in fully wiping out their intended victims, does not mean they weren't genocides.

My point was that if you see something really bad about to happen, and you have to ability to stop it, yet you choose not to, THAT is morally wrong. I further expanded on this by implying that doing the wrong thing for the right reason does not make the action morally right (which you just agreed with). Therefore by not intervening in truly evil events and preventing them, your god is making a morally wrong decision, making him malevolent and imperfect.

Quote:

How dose that make no sense? The fact is, if God does somethin your life that make it difficult to belive it was anything other then him, then that is techincally forcing one to beleive in him, ergo, that contradicts his word in that he gave us free will to choose what we beleive. And God does not constradict himself. If he did, how would we be able to believe what he says is true?

But favoring one group over another IS influencing them. As an example: If there is a group of people who believes A and a group of people who believes B, and I'm some uber wealthy banker or something, and I decide that I will give a million dollars to anyone who believes in A, would that not influence people who believe B to now believe in A?

As for contradictions:

Genesis 9:3

"Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. I have already given you the green plants for food. Now I am giving you everything.

Which is contradicted by:

Deuteronomy 14:7-8

Some animals only chew the cud. Others only have hoofs that are completely separated in two. The camel, rabbit and rock badger chew the cud, but they don't have hoofs that are completely separated. So you can't eat them. They are not "clean" for you.

Pigs aren't "clean" for you either. They have hoofs that are completely separated, but they don't chew the cud. So don't eat their meat. And don't touch their dead bodies.

Acts 13:39

Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

contradicts:

Mark 3:29

But anyone who speaks evil things against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. His guilt will last forever

Jeremiah 32:27

I am the LORD, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?

Apparently lying is too hard for him:

Hebrews 6:18

God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged.

Numbers 23:19

God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?

God's mind cannot be changed?...or maybe it can:

Jonah 3:10

When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened

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For your last point, I have actually talked this over many times with my Grandmother and in the end the only thing that we can come up with is that though God did know what would happen, he himself did not create evil because that was not his intent of creating the angel, it was the angels choice the did. We cannot fully understand why God does what he does but only trust that he knows what's going on. I will admit that I do not have all the anwesers to everything but I know my trust in God is real.

So either A) God didn't know that the the angel would be evil, and therefore is not omniscient, or B) he did know the angel would be evil and created him anyway, thus making him in part responsible for the evil the angel did.

And around here, we call that "blind faith".

[Pseudo-Onkelos]

TANRailgun

As for contradictions:

Genesis 9:3

"Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. I have already given you the green plants for food. Now I am giving you everything.

Which is contradicted by:

Deuteronomy 14:7-8

Some animals only chew the cud. Others only have hoofs that are completely separated in two. The camel, rabbit and rock badger chew the cud, but they don't have hoofs that are completely separated. So you can't eat them. They are not "clean" for you.

Pigs aren't "clean" for you either. They have hoofs that are completely separated, but they don't chew the cud. So don't eat their meat. And don't touch their dead bodies.

God spoke to Noah in your first example. Noah wasn't an Israelite. Israelites came from Israel, also known as Jacob, who came from Isaac, who came from Abraham, who came from the line of Shem, hence the word "Semite". Shem was a son of Noah, not the other way around. Only Jews are bound by the Torah.

TANRailgun

Acts 13:39

Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

contradicts:

Mark 3:29

But anyone who speaks evil things against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. His guilt will last forever

What Jesus said there isn't applicable anymore because no one is doing miracles by the holy spirit.

TANRailgun

Jeremiah 32:27

I am the LORD, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?

Apparently lying is too hard for him:

Hebrews 6:18

God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged.

Is lying a thing?

TANRailgun

Numbers 23:19

God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?

God's mind cannot be changed?...or maybe it can:

Jonah 3:10

When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened

It's because Nineveh repented. If they repented, God would not bring destruction. If they didn't repent, God would bring destruction. Also, where does it say God cannot change His mind?

[Fates Oblivion]

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On the Contrary, I desire nothing more fully than to trust God.

Which is why I don't trust the Bible...and instead I trust fully the Qur'an.

If I may ask, why? What does the Qur'an prove more about God then the Bible.

The Bible is a book , with over 38 human Authors, compiled over 1400 years, with competing Theologies, littered full of contradictions and full of glaring Editations and revisions by later Authors, and also missing text.

It functions mostly as a Historical Narrative with huge Author Bias and a very narrow theological perspective, that's when it's not just poetry or wrongfully cannonised letters from varying church groups


The Qur'an, is one book, with one Author(God) and is not only a discourse and rulebook for the Ummah, but is in it's very nature of text a Miracle, a book which contains Miraculous qualities. is unrepdocuable and stands as a testament for mankind throughout the ages.

I see a problem here though. How can you have a Qur'an if a person did not put it together? The fact that there are multiple of them in the world and that they even exist means that a human had to write it out. Just as you say with the Bible, how can you be sure that the Qur'an was not influenced by humans? The fact is you still have to trust that those of that set religion are telling the truth of what they wrote, not to mention you have no proofe ( just as christians don't ) that God wrote it himself.

As to your compilation claim, any Hafiz(A Hafiz is someone who can recite the whole Qur'an by heart, there are about 20 million currently alive, and ten times that who know half or vast portions) can trace there recitation, comma for comma all the way back to Mohammed(pbuh) or to the Companions of Mohammed(pbuh). They can litterally say "I Learned from..who learned from.who learned from" all the way back to either Mohammed, Aisha, Abu Bakr, Uthman or another major Companion(blessings be upon them all)

And there were thousands of Hafiz alive at the time it was put to pen.

The written version of the Qur'an only exists and indeed was only brought into existance as a learning aid for those who's memories were not so advanced, it is primarily an Oral tool that is group checked.
When it was wrote down(twenty years after Mohammeds(pbuh) death) it was confirmed to be accurate by the closest of the Prophets companions...and if they had put into print a Qur'an that was in error even by a word, it would have been known, thousands of people would have known and would have either A)Said something about it or B)Start narrating a varying version of the Qur'an.

This didn't happen...in the full light of recorded history, in scriptural or oral tradition.
It's word for word, dot for dot, ink for ink exactly the same as it was as it came from Mohammeds mouth.

As for how can we tell it's from God?
Examine the text, it's miraculous, the combination of words, vowels and rhythm is un-reproducable the naration itself is innately miraculous, it is the most advanced form of Arabic poetry ever produced in history to this day Objectively(that's important, objectively by mathamtical and testable critiera) unmatched, made at the time of the Arab Poetic pinnacle, by a camel trader..who was famed for being both Illterate and poor with words.

The single "best" Biblical Text in existance that even comes close to this, is Mark, which is a compilation of 2nd and 3rd hand accounts, compiled 36 years after Jesus died...by a man who never met him.

From there...they get worse.

This proves nothing. So someone put the words in a pretty order your sayin and thus it makes it true. There is no proof showing that these words came directly from God, and you say a proest was the one who made sure it was true, well from what I understand, that means a human made sure it was true. Sorry but that just means it was that humans opinion, nothing more. Just because the Bible does not flow like a poem in your eyes, doesn't make it's words any less true then that of the Qur' ans. The thing is, in the end, it was a human who wrote both books, and one decided to put it a different way then the other. Claiming the Qur' an is better simply by the way it is written proves nothing.