Rape culture at St Paul's Boarding School

[Gray Flashbacks]

Parodically_Tragic

Well they're hardly christian if they're willing to rape.

You can believe in something and still not follow its rules.

Tread lightly on the No True Scotsman Fallacy, friend.

[Kothlim]

I Shall Give You NoMercy

Kothlim

So, how is this rape culture? Even if the goal for the graduating seniors is to hook up with as many as they can, its still generally done under voluntary action, therefore its not rape, not rape culture. Especially when the school and entire country is shocked and condemn the guy for being accused of rape. And sexual assault=/=rape. They're not exactly the same thing. If they were we wouldnt need two different terms and definitions.

Sexual assault-any involuntary sexual act in which a person is threatened, coerced, or forced to engage against their will, or any non-consensual sexual touching of a person

Rape- Someone who is forced to have sex against their will
neutral
C'mon dude. I spent two seconds looking this up.

Yeah, I looked it up before posting too. They're still not the same thing. As I said, if they were then there would be no need two have two terms and definitions.

[klebold6]

Kothlim

So, how is this rape culture? Even if the goal for the graduating seniors is to hook up with as many as they can, its still generally done under voluntary action, therefore its not rape, not rape culture. Especially when the school and entire country is shocked and condemn the guy for being accused of rape. And sexual assault=/=rape. They're not exactly the same thing. If they were we wouldnt need two different terms and definitions.

The men here have come to expect sex from women, and the women have come to expect submission. The impossibility of saying no to one of these seniors is unfathomable. I call that rape culture because these girls don't know how to consent. May I remind you, these are SENIORS that are doing this as a graduation "ritual" which means they are always 18+ when they do this... and the girls that they are automatically entitled to have are not. In this case, it was a 15yo girl. Who knows how many other cases have been swept under the carpet because of this sense of entitlement? There's a notion going around this school that men are owed sex, so maybe nobody ever reports refusals.

[klebold6]

Gray Flashbacks

Parodically_Tragic

Well they're hardly christian if they're willing to rape.

You can believe in something and still not follow its rules.

Tread lightly on the No True Scotsman Fallacy, friend.

At lunch I was talking to this girl who was a Buddhist. She can't eat meat. What's the point of religion of you aren't going to follow its rules? You believe in the religion, and the religion has rules. You don't follow the rules, then perhaps you don't actually believe in it. Religion isn't just a belief, it's a lifestyle. You aren't what you call yourself, you are the result of your actions. Meat eaters can't be vegetarians, no matter how strongly they disagree with the industrial slaughter of animals. Gays cannot be Christians, no matter how many times they pray. I'm not gay, for I prefer the v****a, rather than the p***s, so if I were to tell a girl that just to get her to hang out with me it would be a lie. That's like being Pro-choice, and then having kids. Like Joe said, I can believe I'm a frog, or a ferret, or a cat, doesn't make it true.

[Kothlim]

I Shall Give You NoMercy

Kothlim

Yeah, I looked it up before posting too.They're still not the same thing. .

Quote:

They're still not the same thing

Quote:

They're still not the same thing

Quote:

Sexual assault-any involuntary sexual act in which a person is threatened, coerced, or forced to engage against their will, or any non-consensual sexual touching of a person

Rape- Someone who is forced to have sex against their will

Can you just not read, or are you choosing to stay blatantly ignorant

Touching somebodies tits does not equal rape. Grabbing some dudes junk does not equal rape. Goosing somebody does not equal rape. Those are examples of sexual assault. Sexual assault is not the act of coitus itself. Actual involuntary coitus is rape. Sexual assault can lead to rape, but it is not itself rape. Hell, sexual assault is a bullshit term. Its assault. Plain and simple. Shouldnt matter where you're touched or what the intent is. Its unwelcome physical contact.

[David2074]

Kothlim

So, how is this rape culture? Even if the goal for the graduating seniors is to hook up with as many as they can, its still generally done under voluntary action, therefore its not rape, not rape culture. Especially when the school and entire country is shocked and condemn the guy for being accused of rape. And sexual assault=/=rape. They're not exactly the same thing. If they were we wouldnt need two different terms and definitions.

This.
You said pretty much what I was going to say.
People seem to love any excuse to trot out the 'rape culture' expression these days.

Horny seniors trying to score is nothing new.
But when one girl is raped and the students and town are all shocked that hardly says 'rape culture'.
It does sound like they have some social areas to improve at the school but trotting out buzz phrases for the sake of attention getting headlines is kind of cheap.

[Kothlim]

I Shall Give You NoMercy

Kothlim

Touching somebodies tits does not equal rape. Grabbing some dudes junk does not equal rape. Goosing somebody does not equal rape.

I never said it was dumbass.

Quote:

Those are examples of sexual assault. Sexual assault is not the act of coitus itself. Actual involuntary coitus is rape. Sexual assault can lead to rape, but it is not itself rape.

Yeah, and guess what. Rape is another example of sexual assault. Do you want me to post more definitions?
Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient. Falling under the definition of sexual assault are sexual activities as forced sexual intercourse, forcible sodomy, child molestation, incest, fondling, and attempted rape.
The link is from the U.S department of justice. At this point you can't really argue its not. It's literally law.

You don't get to decide and pick and choose what counts as rape and what doesn't. Rape falls under sexual assault.
This is fact.
Get over it.

Lol. Why does everybody always go to "the law says it so it must be so." Intellectually lazy, stupid, dumbshit cattle.

[klebold6]

David2074

Kothlim

So, how is this rape culture? Even if the goal for the graduating seniors is to hook up with as many as they can, its still generally done under voluntary action, therefore its not rape, not rape culture. Especially when the school and entire country is shocked and condemn the guy for being accused of rape. And sexual assault=/=rape. They're not exactly the same thing. If they were we wouldnt need two different terms and definitions.

This.
You said pretty much what I was going to say.
People seem to love any excuse to trot out the 'rape culture' expression these days.

Horny seniors trying to score is nothing new.
But when one girl is raped and the students and town are all shocked that hardly says 'rape culture'.
It does sound like they have some social areas to improve at the school but trotting out buzz phrases for the sake of attention getting headlines is kind of cheap.

Read on, it explains how an investigation reveals that this is actually common around the school. The girls have no choice, the seniors always get what they want. Rather, who they want.

[David2074]

klebold6

David2074

Kothlim

So, how is this rape culture? Even if the goal for the graduating seniors is to hook up with as many as they can, its still generally done under voluntary action, therefore its not rape, not rape culture. Especially when the school and entire country is shocked and condemn the guy for being accused of rape. And sexual assault=/=rape. They're not exactly the same thing. If they were we wouldnt need two different terms and definitions.

This.
You said pretty much what I was going to say.
People seem to love any excuse to trot out the 'rape culture' expression these days.

Horny seniors trying to score is nothing new.
But when one girl is raped and the students and town are all shocked that hardly says 'rape culture'.
It does sound like they have some social areas to improve at the school but trotting out buzz phrases for the sake of attention getting headlines is kind of cheap.

Read on, it explains how an investigation reveals that this is actually common around the school. The girls have no choice, the seniors always get what they want. Rather, who they want.

I did read on.
I stand by my original statement.
Your summary of "The girls have no choice, the seniors always get what they want" is NOT supported by the article. In fact the whole point of this article proves the seniors do not always get what they want. He wanted a willing submissive, didn't get it, and now he is facing felony charges.

Perhaps you are referring to something other than in the article you linked?
"culture of hooking up" =/= "rape culture"
Everything in the article indicates this is the first rape they know about. "students and alumni shocked" "incident felt both out of the blue and like it had been waiting to happen for a long time"

Plus all the stuff about the staff supposedly trying to work on the underlying culture in the school that helped to lead up to this incident. In other words, in contrast to places that really do have a 'rape culture' the boy was arrested and the people in charge are at least allegedly trying to address the casual hookup situation. Compare that to India where apparently if you are not the right social caste the cops are reluctant to even write a report unless the story makes international news and other countries are clamoring for something to be done.

I think you are trying to imply that because it says the social structure of the school is such that some girls CHOOSE to sleep with older classmates to get ahead socially that = "rape culture". It may be a less than desirable situation but the only rape being talked about in this article is the one young man who got arrested.

Also worth keeping in mind these are not powerless welfare kids whose parents can't afford good legal counsel if their precious snowflake is being bullied at school. It says tuition is 50K per year, plus I suspect a lot of additional costs. Strong implication that mummy and daddy have money. Plus it seems unlikely the school will even take you in most cases if you don't have money given the statement about - - a school that views itself as having a responsibility to create a “good and just elite,”
(In the above phrase "elite" = "rich" )

Some quotes from the article - none of which support 'rape culture':

News of the alleged assault — and the tradition that underlies it — has shocked and horrified students and alumni

The student did not believe the culture of the school had anything to do with the alleged assault. “I think this was just a couple senior guys who thought they were much cooler than they actually were, trying to make a name for themselves and be legends, and it got out of hand,” said the student.

“This incident felt both out of the blue and like it had been waiting to happen for a long time,” she said.

Many sexual encounters were based on power differentials, she said, and did not go as far as assault but “easily could have.”

[klebold6]

David2074

klebold6

David2074

Kothlim

So, how is this rape culture? Even if the goal for the graduating seniors is to hook up with as many as they can, its still generally done under voluntary action, therefore its not rape, not rape culture. Especially when the school and entire country is shocked and condemn the guy for being accused of rape. And sexual assault=/=rape. They're not exactly the same thing. If they were we wouldnt need two different terms and definitions.

This.
You said pretty much what I was going to say.
People seem to love any excuse to trot out the 'rape culture' expression these days.

Horny seniors trying to score is nothing new.
But when one girl is raped and the students and town are all shocked that hardly says 'rape culture'.
It does sound like they have some social areas to improve at the school but trotting out buzz phrases for the sake of attention getting headlines is kind of cheap.

Read on, it explains how an investigation reveals that this is actually common around the school. The girls have no choice, the seniors always get what they want. Rather, who they want.

I did read on.
I stand by my original statement.
Your summary of "The girls have no choice, the seniors always get what they want" is NOT supported by the article. In fact the whole point of this article proves the seniors do not always get what they want. He wanted a willing submissive, didn't get it, and now he is facing felony charges.

Perhaps you are referring to something other than in the article you linked?
"culture of hooking up" =/= "rape culture"
Everything in the article indicates this is the first rape they know about. "students and alumni shocked" "incident felt both out of the blue and like it had been waiting to happen for a long time"

Plus all the stuff about the staff supposedly trying to work on the underlying culture in the school that helped to lead up to this incident. In other words, in contrast to places that really do have a 'rape culture' the boy was arrested and the people in charge are at least allegedly trying to address the casual hookup situation. Compare that to India where apparently if you are not the right social caste the cops are reluctant to even write a report unless the story makes international news and other countries are clamoring for something to be done.

I think you are trying to imply that because it says the social structure of the school is such that some girls CHOOSE to sleep with older classmates to get ahead socially that = "rape culture". It may be a less than desirable situation but the only rape being talked about in this article is the one young man who got arrested.

Also worth keeping in mind these are not powerless welfare kids whose parents can't afford good legal counsel if their precious snowflake is being bullied at school. It says tuition is 50K per year, plus I suspect a lot of additional costs. Strong implication that mummy and daddy have money. Plus it seems unlikely the school will even take you in most cases if you don't have money given the statement about - - a school that views itself as having a responsibility to create a “good and just elite,”
(In the above phrase "elite" = "rich" )

Some quotes from the article - none of which support 'rape culture':

News of the alleged assault — and the tradition that underlies it — has shocked and horrified students and alumni

The student did not believe the culture of the school had anything to do with the alleged assault. “I think this was just a couple senior guys who thought they were much cooler than they actually were, trying to make a name for themselves and be legends, and it got out of hand,” said the student.

“This incident felt both out of the blue and like it had been waiting to happen for a long time,” she said.

Many sexual encounters were based on power differentials, she said, and did not go as far as assault but “easily could have.”

Read between the lines. Senior Salute is what the victim is calling it.

"a 15 year old freshman told police that she had received a 'senior salute' from Labrie. A school counselor described it to police as 'a horrible tradition at the boarding school in which a senior emails a younger student regarding a conquest before they graduate."

Interesting. It's like they can pick and choose freely who do have sex with, and the girl doesn't even get a say. If she refuses, too bad, it's tradition so she's supposed to want it. That's the culture in the school. That's rape culture. Even if these little girls think they want it. I don't believe that an adult coercing a child into sex is considering consensual sex at all. Using manipulative tactics and pressure does not endorse consent. When you have such promiscuous traditions, it gets out of hand easily. And the interesting thing was that she told police that she had "received a senior salute" as opposed to rape. Obviously she also detailed the refusal, saying no multiple times and "don't pull down my underwear" but again, apparently what happened to her has a NAME over there. A title. The "competition" was to see how many girls they could hook up with, and give "senior salutes" to before they graduated. It also specifies that the girl must be younger. The news is calling it "hook-up culture" but I'm calling it rape culture because of the manipulation and age gaps, for these seniors must be 18+ and they're clearly targeting freshmen.

Obviously there are some young teenage girls that think they know what they want. They're groomed into a life of sexual expectancy and it's all they know. The "culture" we're talking about regards to the formalities, trends, social acceptances, just think of how many girls didn't report their unwanted "senior salute" simply because it was normal over there. Imagine being a girl, and getting that email and thinking, "I don't even know this guy! Damn, looks like I have to ******** him. I was hoping to give my virginity away to somebody special, but oh well, what can I do?" that's the culture here at St Paul's Boarding School. Your optimism is as delusional as the religion they hypocritically preach.

And obviously the school is gonna cover their a**. That's why they said it was "alarming" and the counselor knows that it's an "epidemic" at the school.

He made $15k bail so obviously he's got money. Another indication of wealth is that he goes to a boarding school... but remember... she does too.

[David2074]

klebold6

David2074

klebold6

David2074

Kothlim

So, how is this rape culture? Even if the goal for the graduating seniors is to hook up with as many as they can, its still generally done under voluntary action, therefore its not rape, not rape culture. Especially when the school and entire country is shocked and condemn the guy for being accused of rape. And sexual assault=/=rape. They're not exactly the same thing. If they were we wouldnt need two different terms and definitions.

This.
You said pretty much what I was going to say.
People seem to love any excuse to trot out the 'rape culture' expression these days.

Horny seniors trying to score is nothing new.
But when one girl is raped and the students and town are all shocked that hardly says 'rape culture'.
It does sound like they have some social areas to improve at the school but trotting out buzz phrases for the sake of attention getting headlines is kind of cheap.

Read on, it explains how an investigation reveals that this is actually common around the school. The girls have no choice, the seniors always get what they want. Rather, who they want.

I did read on.
I stand by my original statement.
Your summary of "The girls have no choice, the seniors always get what they want" is NOT supported by the article. In fact the whole point of this article proves the seniors do not always get what they want. He wanted a willing submissive, didn't get it, and now he is facing felony charges.

Perhaps you are referring to something other than in the article you linked?
"culture of hooking up" =/= "rape culture"
Everything in the article indicates this is the first rape they know about. "students and alumni shocked" "incident felt both out of the blue and like it had been waiting to happen for a long time"

Plus all the stuff about the staff supposedly trying to work on the underlying culture in the school that helped to lead up to this incident. In other words, in contrast to places that really do have a 'rape culture' the boy was arrested and the people in charge are at least allegedly trying to address the casual hookup situation. Compare that to India where apparently if you are not the right social caste the cops are reluctant to even write a report unless the story makes international news and other countries are clamoring for something to be done.

I think you are trying to imply that because it says the social structure of the school is such that some girls CHOOSE to sleep with older classmates to get ahead socially that = "rape culture". It may be a less than desirable situation but the only rape being talked about in this article is the one young man who got arrested.

Also worth keeping in mind these are not powerless welfare kids whose parents can't afford good legal counsel if their precious snowflake is being bullied at school. It says tuition is 50K per year, plus I suspect a lot of additional costs. Strong implication that mummy and daddy have money. Plus it seems unlikely the school will even take you in most cases if you don't have money given the statement about - - a school that views itself as having a responsibility to create a “good and just elite,”
(In the above phrase "elite" = "rich" )

Some quotes from the article - none of which support 'rape culture':

News of the alleged assault — and the tradition that underlies it — has shocked and horrified students and alumni

The student did not believe the culture of the school had anything to do with the alleged assault. “I think this was just a couple senior guys who thought they were much cooler than they actually were, trying to make a name for themselves and be legends, and it got out of hand,” said the student.

“This incident felt both out of the blue and like it had been waiting to happen for a long time,” she said.

Many sexual encounters were based on power differentials, she said, and did not go as far as assault but “easily could have.”

Read between the lines. Senior Salute is what the victim is calling it.

"a 15 year old freshman told police that she had received a 'senior salute' from Labrie. A school counselor described it to police as 'a horrible tradition at the boarding school in which a senior emails a younger student regarding a conquest before they graduate."

Interesting. It's like they can pick and choose freely who do have sex with, and the girl doesn't even get a say. If she refuses, too bad, it's tradition so she's supposed to want it. That's the culture in the school. That's rape culture. Even if these little girls think they want it. I don't believe that an adult coercing a child into sex is considering consensual sex at all. Using manipulative tactics and pressure does not endorse consent. When you have such promiscuous traditions, it gets out of hand easily. And the interesting thing was that she told police that she had "received a senior salute" as opposed to rape. Obviously she also detailed the refusal, saying no multiple times and "don't pull down my underwear" but again, apparently what happened to her has a NAME over there. A title. The "competition" was to see how many girls they could hook up with, and give "senior salutes" to before they graduated. It also specifies that the girl must be younger. The news is calling it "hook-up culture" but I'm calling it rape culture because of the manipulation and age gaps, for these seniors must be 18+ and they're clearly targeting freshmen.

Obviously there are some young teenage girls that think they know what they want. They're groomed into a life of sexual expectancy and it's all they know. The "culture" we're talking about regards to the formalities, trends, social acceptances, just think of how many girls didn't report their unwanted "senior salute" simply because it was normal over there. Imagine being a girl, and getting that email and thinking, "I don't even know this guy! Damn, looks like I have to ******** him. I was hoping to give my virginity away to somebody special, but oh well, what can I do?" that's the culture here at St Paul's Boarding School. Your optimism is as delusional as the religion they hypocritically preach.

And obviously the school is gonna cover their a**. That's why they said it was "alarming" and the counselor knows that it's an "epidemic" at the school.

He made $15k bail so obviously he's got money. Another indication of wealth is that he goes to a boarding school... but remember... she does too.

I guess we agree to disagree.
IMO you are inserting your own 'facts' that are not supported by the story and spinning it the way you want to.

The girl calling it senior salute may have referred to scenario that led up to her deciding to meet the guy. It doesn't mean everyone at the school secretly thinks "senior salute" is code phrase for rape as you seem to think.

Lots of schools have peer pressure. It may be wrong but it is not synonymous with rape.

I feel sad for whatever world you live in that you think a girl who wants to save her virginity gets and email for a date and thinks she has no choice but to go have sex with the guy.

The family may be rich but $15,000 bail doesn't prove that one way or the other. If they went through a bail bondsman they would typically have to come up with 10% or $1,500. Pretty average families could come up with $1,500 to get their kid out of jail.

We can agree the school appears to have some traditions that are less than exemplary .

[ColbBot]

Kothlim

I Shall Give You NoMercy

Kothlim

Touching somebodies tits does not equal rape. Grabbing some dudes junk does not equal rape. Goosing somebody does not equal rape.

I never said it was dumbass.

Quote:

Those are examples of sexual assault. Sexual assault is not the act of coitus itself. Actual involuntary coitus is rape. Sexual assault can lead to rape, but it is not itself rape.

Yeah, and guess what. Rape is another example of sexual assault. Do you want me to post more definitions?
Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient. Falling under the definition of sexual assault are sexual activities as forced sexual intercourse, forcible sodomy, child molestation, incest, fondling, and attempted rape.
The link is from the U.S department of justice. At this point you can't really argue its not. It's literally law.

You don't get to decide and pick and choose what counts as rape and what doesn't. Rape falls under sexual assault.
This is fact.
Get over it.

Lol. Why does everybody always go to "the law says it so it must be so." Intellectually lazy, stupid, dumbshit cattle.

Neckbeard detected.

[Kothlim]

Nadine_Craft

Kothlim

I Shall Give You NoMercy

Kothlim

Touching somebodies tits does not equal rape. Grabbing some dudes junk does not equal rape. Goosing somebody does not equal rape.

I never said it was dumbass.

Quote:

Those are examples of sexual assault. Sexual assault is not the act of coitus itself. Actual involuntary coitus is rape. Sexual assault can lead to rape, but it is not itself rape.

Yeah, and guess what. Rape is another example of sexual assault. Do you want me to post more definitions?
Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient. Falling under the definition of sexual assault are sexual activities as forced sexual intercourse, forcible sodomy, child molestation, incest, fondling, and attempted rape.
The link is from the U.S department of justice. At this point you can't really argue its not. It's literally law.

You don't get to decide and pick and choose what counts as rape and what doesn't. Rape falls under sexual assault.
This is fact.
Get over it.

Lol. Why does everybody always go to "the law says it so it must be so." Intellectually lazy, stupid, dumbshit cattle.

Neckbeard detected.

Oh look, cattle.