EU politicians speak out after wave of anti-Semitic attacks

[The Silent Seraph]

Glorious Leader Luna

The Silent Seraph

Mei tsuki7

I'm not surprised. I'm rather saddened but that's no different than what I feel when muslims are attacked and Islamophobia occurs. I don't understand why people act like hate against Jews is worse than hate against other groups.

Also, comparing this spate of anti-semitism to Nazi Germany belittles the Holocaust and is not okay. It is NOTHING like what happened back then and there is no chance of it happening again.

There is every chance of it happening again. It would be happening right now if Israel wasn't so adept at defending itself against not only Hamas in Gaza, but every other terrorist organization/nation in the area that wants to annihilate them simply because they are Jews. But go ahead and act like they're doing something wrong by defending themselves. I dare you to try and make a rational argument from that position.

That they have to defended themselves sort of shows that it was a stupid idea in the first place.

That what was a stupid idea? Being Jewish?

Look kids, it's your old friend Victim Blame©!

[Omnileech]

The Silent Seraph

Omnileech

The Silent Seraph

Omnileech

The Silent Seraph

Since neither of you are saying anything productive, shut the ******** up and I'll do your jobs for you.

"Inspired by Adolf Hitler's theories of racial struggle and the "intent" of the Jews to survive and expand at the expense of Germans, the Nazis, as a governing party from 1933-1938, ordered anti-Jewish boycotts, staged book burnings, and enacted anti-Jewish legislation. In 1935, the Nuremberg Laws defined Jews by race and mandated the total separation of "Aryans" and "non-Aryans." On November 9, 1938, the Nazis destroyed synagogues and the shop windows of Jewish-owned stores throughout Germany and Austria (Kristallnacht). These measures aimed at both legal and social segregation of Jews from Germans and Austrians.

Kristallnacht, the initiation of World War II in 1939, and the invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941 marked the transition to the era of destruction, in which genocide would become the key focus of Nazi antisemitism. To justify the murder of the Jews both to the perpetrators and to bystanders in Germany and Europe, the Nazis used not only racist arguments but also arguments derived from older negative stereotypes, including Jews as communist subversives, as war profiteers and hoarders, and as a danger to internal security because of their inherent disloyalty and opposition to Germany."

More incoming. Sounds disturbingly similar to the present, doesn't it?

Oh, finally we get someone courageous enough to post something as misguided as it is.

You're forgetting that all the violence under Jews under Nazi Germany was state-sponsored or state permitted violence. The government in Nazi Germany was the one doing book burnings, boycotts, legislation, etc. Kristallnacht was a government-backed attack.

What is happening now? It's not the government doing it. These are sporadic hate crimes with the perpetrators arrested and locked up. In Nazi Germany the police would have looked the other way or commended the attackers.

What might be a closer analogy would be This or this

Anti-semitism in Germany or anywhere in western civilization was prevalent prior to the rise of fascism if you'd pick up a book and learn about how Jews were treated before 1933.

More recently though?



Jews are viewed favorably. Muslims much less so.

So how the hell can you see a strong analogy between what's happening here, and a far-right government taking power. Remember that in 1930 Nazis got 18% of the vote in Germany and in the following election got a majority of the vote. Don't tell me that you think the rise of anti-antisemitism was caused by Hitler and didn't exist in Germany beforehand?

You are wrong, and you're attempting to revise your opinion on the fly to hide it. Let's not forget your original stance, which was: "You clearly don't know how it started with the Nazis". Anti-semitism and anti-semitic demonstrations in Germany do predate Nazi governmental control. The Nazi began as a political party, much like Hamas. Like Hamas, they used radicalism and violence to pave the way to power. Like Hamas, they spread anti-semitism and made Jews their straw men the whole way. What we have here is an exact copy of that scenario, updated to the 21st century, where telecommunications allows for cultural reach far greater than in the early 20th, and the anti-semitism spread by Hamas reaches much further. Due to their influence through media and other means, they have incited riots in Europe which have resulted in mirror events (albeit on a smaller scale, for now) to the Kristallnacht. Today, as in the past, anti-Semitism reigns and begins to influence political events. Your fallacy is in believing that because it does not originate in an area local to the violence it inspires, that it in fact is not a threat. You fail to account for the volatility of media and its effect on the spread of culture and ideas. The long-brewing anti-Semitism in the middle east (which IS state backed) is merely beginning to reach Europe. As it has done before, the danger arises in which a political party (like the Nazis) can ride this wave of hatred to power.

Would you care to change your position again so I have yet another flawed argument to shoot down?

Anti-antisemitic violence predated the Nazis by over a century, and I hate to break it to you but Hamas doesn't govern anywhere in Europe.

muslims on the other hand are much closer to your scenario. What with their religious clothing banned and don't forget banning Muslim buildings

So no, anti-semitism doesn't reign in Europe. You can ignore the fact that Jews have equal rights in Europe and that the vast majority of people don't have a problem with them, but the fact is that your perception of reality is skewed and the stats don't lie.

Yep. If you and Samurai think this is how the Nazis got their start then you don't know much about the Nazis at all. You also kinda missed out how the Nazis successfully got their start by scapegoating their problems on other countries, Jews, democracy, women, and communists, but hey, maybe you'll learn about Fascism and the Great Depression someday.

Yes, this is who Nazis got their start. This is how any radical faction gets its start; by preying upon radical opinions. I never said Hamas governs in Europe. Please go back and reread my comment until either you understand it or your parents make you get off the internet.

Your argument that "most people are okay with them" is completely irrelevant. It used to be "all people are okay with them" and now it is "some people are definitely not okay with them", and the movement grows as such fanatical movements do. This is exactly how it starts, how it always starts, with the actions of a few riding a cultural wave.

Attempting to redirect the discussion to your victim of choice is irrelevant and an argumentative fallacy. The suffering of one group does not negate or justify the suffering of another. The topic at hand has been the rise of anti-semitism and its similarity to its previous rise in Europe. If you need to resort to deflection, you've already lost.

And again, no sources, just pure opinion. You're a grade-A failure.

You've provided plenty of opinions and no sources yourself to my... 5 now?

Radical factions can't get popular by scapegoating a well-liked and respected segment of the population. Jews are seen about as favorably as Christians according to my source. Hamas isn't responsible for anti-Semitic violence and as I've already cited there's been far more attacks on Muslims both in the form of hate-crimes and in the form of openly discriminatory anti-religious legislation and that fits far more into the "this is how nazis started" narrative than hate crimes against Jews.

Kristallnacht was an organized, targeted violent act and that hasn't happened at all against well.. anyone. It also happened well after the Nazis "got their start" and over 5 years after Hitler was appointed. Maybe you should look more for what went around in the 1926-1930 period.

I'm still waiting on sources from you. Haven't seen any. Does it bother you that Muslims have been victimized in Europe? Does it upset you so much to be so wrong?Does it also upset you that Roma also are victimized far more in line with your narrative than Jews have been?

[Omnileech]

Quote:

I provided an entire quoted paragraph from a historical analysis as my first entry in this discussion. I haven't had to cite any other sources, because you haven't disproven the first. You have cited no relevant sources. You continue to rely on deflection to your perceived victimization of Muslims which is irrelevant to the topic at hand, unless you are stating that retaliation against Jews is justified by this? Anyway, if you continue to repeat the same lines without evidence, I'll accept your surrender and your further repetitions will be summarily ignored.

Bull s**t. An abridged timeline of anti-Semitic acts by the Nazi party after they were the majority is not proof "This is how Nazis got their start" picking and choosing events during that timeline does not support your flawed analogy.

Quote:

Jews are viewed favorably in select areas of the world, and you ignore the areas of the world where anti-Semitism is not only the cultural norm, but legislated. As I have previously stated, it is from these centers that it spreads to its current appearance in Europe. Continue to ignore that fact for as long as is convenient for you, you ignorant halfwit.

Hey genius. We're talking about Western Europe. No other parts of the world are relevant

Quote:

The targeting of Jewish shops and synagogues was mirrored in recent riots in Paris, and bears striking resemblance to Kristallnacht in its organized and targeted violence.

No evidence that it was organized and not spontaneous. Kristallnacht was planned in advance by the government. You are equating ... two synagogues and how many stores and how many synagogues in one city to state-sponsored terror? How many other riots in history have happened that haven't been related to the Nazis? Lots. Weak analogy try again. And again, it happened long after the Nazis got their start.

Quote:

These events are common knowledge, but if you have questions, feel free to Google them. Unlike you, I provide specific details to actual events, rather than asserted opinions with links to deflective and irrelevant topics.

Specific details to actual events? No, no, you haven't. Certainly not relevant. Only you'd post two paragraphs of text that contradict your analogy and call it detailed.

Quote:

"Inspired by Adolf Hitler's theories of racial struggle and the "intent" of the Jews to survive and expand at the expense of Germans, the Nazis, as a governing party from 1933-1938, ordered anti-Jewish boycotts, staged book burnings, and enacted anti-Jewish legislation. In 1935, the Nuremberg Laws defined Jews by race and mandated the total separation of "Aryans" and "non-Aryans." On November 9, 1938, the Nazis destroyed synagogues and the shop windows of Jewish-owned stores throughout Germany and Austria (Kristallnacht). These measures aimed at both legal and social segregation of Jews from Germans and Austrians.

I italicized the parts that don't jive with your analogy. Leaving only...

Quote:

Nazis destroyed synagogues and the shop windows of Jewish-owned stores

And that's as far as your analogy goes. Because synagogues and stores got destroyed it's just like the Nazis.

The parts about legislation in Europe aimed at social and legal segregation of the Jews? Not present for Jews, present for Muslims. You've declared a large portion of the philosophy of Nazism as "irrelevant"

Quote:

Perhaps if you find some way to point out to me where your ability to comprehend this situation is failing you, I can break that particular section down into very small words.

You don't even understand what you've linked. It's really sad. But let that vitriol flow. You don't understand history and you don't grasp current events. Keep cherrypicking bro.

Keltoi Samurai

Are you also going to declare that current events is like the Night of Broken glass and how Nazis got their start?

[Bogotanian]

Omnileech

muslims on the other hand are much closer to your scenario. What with their religious clothing banned and don't forget banning Muslim buildings

Hmmm.... wait you're joking right? Trying to turn this situation into a "it's really the Muslims that are targets of vicious attacks in Europe." Yeah it's not like they have Sharia Law established in any parts of Europe... Oh Wait

Also it's not like Muslims are behind many race or religion inspired riots in Europe... Oh nevermind

The fact is that what is going on has some stunning and disturbing parallels to Kristallnacht. Just because it is not the government enforcing this policy doesn't make it any less disturbing. In fact, if it was a government-sponsored action, than that would make the government(s) look really bad and the populace would rush to their defense... except that in this situation it seems that most of the populace are against the Jews. Period. It is citizens that are causing these riots, not the government. This says that people are overwhelmingly Pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel, and this wave of anti-antisemitism that's going on (after all what's the one thing that would unite liberals, right wing groups, and Muslims? Oh yeah mutual hatred of Israel) does not say good things about the state of society... unless you would think that this is justified behavior.

[Omnileech]

Bogotanian

Omnileech

muslims on the other hand are much closer to your scenario. What with their religious clothing banned and don't forget banning Muslim buildings

Hmmm.... wait you're joking right? Trying to turn this situation into a "it's really the Muslims that are targets of vicious attacks in Europe." Yeah it's not like they have Sharia Law established in any parts of Europe... Oh Wait

Also it's not like Muslims are behind many race or religion inspired riots in Europe... Oh nevermind

The fact is that what is going on has some stunning and disturbing parallels to Kristallnacht. Just because it is not the government enforcing this policy doesn't make it any less disturbing. In fact, if it was a government-sponsored action, than that would make the government(s) look really bad and the populace would rush to their defense... accept that in this situation it seems that most of the populace are against the Jews. Period. It is citizens that are causing these riots, not the government. This says that people are overwhelmingly Pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel, and this wave of anti-antisemitism that's going on (after all what's the one thing that would unite liberals, right wing groups, and Muslims? Oh yeah mutual hatred of Israel) does not say good things about the state of society...

I didn't say "it's really the Muslims that are targets of vicious attacks." It's more like "Jews and Muslims are both victims of vicious attacks"

Of your sources the first is...

Quote:

Under ground-breaking guidance, produced by The Law Society, High Street solicitors will be able to write Islamic wills that deny women an equal share of inheritances and exclude unbelievers altogether.

Which was already legal. People can write unequal wills and exclude people for any reason. That's not Sharia law.

And that's an Op/ED...

My point was that what's happening in Europe more closely resembles the Nuremberg laws (those happened years before Kristallnacht) oh, and that just because there's a riot doesn't make it the birthplace of fascism.

There's a huge difference between a government organizing a massive attack on a minority groups spanning two countries and what? 200-300 people in Paris, a city of over 2 million. The difference being that under the Nazis people were encouraged and rewarded to attack Jews while with these riots the people the police arrested are going to prison for it. You won't be expecting mercy from the courts for those people.

What happened in Paris was a race riot.

[Glorious Leader Luna]

The Silent Seraph

Glorious Leader Luna

The Silent Seraph

Mei tsuki7

I'm not surprised. I'm rather saddened but that's no different than what I feel when muslims are attacked and Islamophobia occurs. I don't understand why people act like hate against Jews is worse than hate against other groups.

Also, comparing this spate of anti-semitism to Nazi Germany belittles the Holocaust and is not okay. It is NOTHING like what happened back then and there is no chance of it happening again.

There is every chance of it happening again. It would be happening right now if Israel wasn't so adept at defending itself against not only Hamas in Gaza, but every other terrorist organization/nation in the area that wants to annihilate them simply because they are Jews. But go ahead and act like they're doing something wrong by defending themselves. I dare you to try and make a rational argument from that position.

That they have to defended themselves sort of shows that it was a stupid idea in the first place.

That what was a stupid idea? Being Jewish?

Look kids, it's your old friend Victim Blame©!

No placing a people in a area where what is comply hostile to them was and is a stupid idea.

[The Silent Seraph]

Glorious Leader Luna

The Silent Seraph

Glorious Leader Luna

The Silent Seraph

Mei tsuki7

I'm not surprised. I'm rather saddened but that's no different than what I feel when muslims are attacked and Islamophobia occurs. I don't understand why people act like hate against Jews is worse than hate against other groups.

Also, comparing this spate of anti-semitism to Nazi Germany belittles the Holocaust and is not okay. It is NOTHING like what happened back then and there is no chance of it happening again.

There is every chance of it happening again. It would be happening right now if Israel wasn't so adept at defending itself against not only Hamas in Gaza, but every other terrorist organization/nation in the area that wants to annihilate them simply because they are Jews. But go ahead and act like they're doing something wrong by defending themselves. I dare you to try and make a rational argument from that position.

That they have to defended themselves sort of shows that it was a stupid idea in the first place.

That what was a stupid idea? Being Jewish?

Look kids, it's your old friend Victim Blame©!

No placing a people in a area where what is comply hostile to them was and is a stupid idea.

Oh right, I guess they should just go on having no home. Disregard the fact that the land was theirs since recorded history, and the current Arabs living there came with the Ottoman Empire that oppressed and drove the Jews out. I guess we should give everything to terrorists because there's no point living here with people that are hostile.

[Glorious Leader Luna]

The Silent Seraph

Glorious Leader Luna

The Silent Seraph

Glorious Leader Luna

The Silent Seraph

Mei tsuki7

I'm not surprised. I'm rather saddened but that's no different than what I feel when muslims are attacked and Islamophobia occurs. I don't understand why people act like hate against Jews is worse than hate against other groups.

Also, comparing this spate of anti-semitism to Nazi Germany belittles the Holocaust and is not okay. It is NOTHING like what happened back then and there is no chance of it happening again.

There is every chance of it happening again. It would be happening right now if Israel wasn't so adept at defending itself against not only Hamas in Gaza, but every other terrorist organization/nation in the area that wants to annihilate them simply because they are Jews. But go ahead and act like they're doing something wrong by defending themselves. I dare you to try and make a rational argument from that position.

That they have to defended themselves sort of shows that it was a stupid idea in the first place.

That what was a stupid idea? Being Jewish?

Look kids, it's your old friend Victim Blame©!

No placing a people in a area where what is comply hostile to them was and is a stupid idea.

Oh right, I guess they should just go on having no home. Disregard the fact that the land was theirs since recorded history, and the current Arabs living there came with the Ottoman Empire that oppressed and drove the Jews out. I guess we should give everything to terrorists because there's no point living here with people that are hostile.

The land is much theirs as it is any other people who lived on it. (Ancient Egyptians, Canaanites, Israelites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Ancient Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, the Sunni Arab Caliphates, the Shia Fatimid Caliphate, Crusaders, Ayyubids, Mameluks, Ottomans, and British )

and no generally the Ottoman Empire was tolerant it was only in the 19th century when it started to worsen what oppression was had was had by all the Empire's non-Muslim subjects

[N3bu]

Keltoi Samurai

What? No . . . This isn't Antisemitism, it's just people criticising Israel and those who support Israel. Those people aren't being targeted for being Jews, they're being targeted for being Zionists.

Anyways, sarcastic remarks aside, I'm not surprised, what with the rising tide of antisemitism masquerading as antizionism of late, that it's spilling over in such a way. I mean, Hell, I regularly hear that old canard about Jews controlling the banks, and people referencing "the Protocols of Zion" in their "support of Palestine" ( which here lately, I've come to realise has become a sort of code word for either "hatred of Jews" or "trying to be on the opposite side of the issue from Republicans" ), so I wouldn't be surprised to see even worse coming down the pipeline soonlike.

And as for the people saying that this is nothing like what happened with the Nazis, well . . . It's not exactly like how things started with the Nazis, but all it's missing is government support, and we're talking about Democracies here, where all it really takes to get government behind anything is a fear that it'll hurt your chances for re-election.

Well actually, prior to the Nazi, and even during the Nazi regime, the west, both the population and governments were far more accepting of Antisemitism. It was a pervasive acceptance, like of African Americans would of been widely considered sub-human or second class citizens back during the Slavery Era.

[N3bu]

The Silent Seraph

Disregard the fact that the land was theirs since recorded history

Was it?

That's being just a little creative, isn't it?

Many people have lived in and owned that land for a very long time.

[The Silent Seraph]

N3bu

The Silent Seraph

Disregard the fact that the land was theirs since recorded history

Was it?

That's being just a little creative, isn't it?

Many people have lived in and owned that land for a very long time.

You demonstrate your ignorance. Do a little research, and you'll see that archeologists have traced the origins of that land back to the Canaanites, who underwent a peaceful social revolution and founded the nation of Israel in their land. There is no record of anyone inhabiting that land prior to the Canaanites (who would become the Israelites). Everyone who attempted to inhabit the land afterwards was an invader; if you recognize their right to own the land by invasion and conquering, then you must recognize Israel's same right to hold the land currently by the same logic. If, instead, you insist that the land belong to the original inhabitants prior to any hostile invasion, then it belongs still to Israel.

Or you can keep being snarky and uneducated.

[The Silent Seraph]

Glorious Leader Luna

See above post.

[The Silent Seraph]

If I came and kicked you out of your house by force, and claimed it for my own, we all know you'd go to the police and have me carted away (if you didn't shoot/harm/otherwise deter me in my original attempt). This is your right, because it belongs to you. You are the original owner, until you decide to relinquish it of your own free will.

This is the case with Israel. They have been assaulted by a great many nations, for a great many reasons, over the course of known history. The earliest battle ever recorded was at Megiddo, between Egyptians and Canaanites, to secure a trade passage from Egypt to the East; let that sink in for a moment. The earliest battle... ever recorded. The first. The land has been fought over incessantly since, most likely prior, and probably for the foreseeable future. In ancient times it was a fertile land of prosperity, situated on the intersection of a number of trade routes, and with easy access to the Mediterranean. The fertility is mostly gone in modern times, thanks to the oppression of the Ottoman Empire (ever heard of a tree tax? If you want to squeeze more money out of your subjects, tax them for every tree they have on their property. Then watch them cut the trees down to try and save their living, and the land turns arid), and the trade routes are irrelevant. In modern times, the area is rife with conflict due to the general hostility in that area of the world. Fanatical Muslim and Arab factions want Israel destroyed because they are Jewish. But don't worry, if they succeed the land will still be fought over, because those same factions are more than happy to clash with other fanatical/political factions. In the midst of this, we have the only democratic free state in the area, and the most friendly nation in the area with the rest of the world, beset by rabid terrorist groups that just want to kill everyone that isn't them and rule over all they see. They are suffering constant attacks, and we have uninformed idiots that question their right to defend themselves or even to live in the area which has belonged to them since mankind knew how to write things down on materials which would thousands of years to be read by us today.

Go ahead, turn the land over to the fanatics, let there be even more fighting, see what it solves. Turn the Jewish people adrift again, so they can be persecuted in other countries like they always have been when severed from their own nation. Just don't try to explain to anyone how that made sense to you in your head.

[Glorious Leader Luna]

The Silent Seraph

N3bu

The Silent Seraph

Disregard the fact that the land was theirs since recorded history

Was it?

That's being just a little creative, isn't it?

Many people have lived in and owned that land for a very long time.

You demonstrate your ignorance. Do a little research, and you'll see that archeologists have traced the origins of that land back to the Canaanites, who underwent a peaceful social revolution and founded the nation of Israel in their land. There is no record of anyone inhabiting that land prior to the Canaanites (who would become the Israelites). Everyone who attempted to inhabit the land afterwards was an invader; if you recognize their right to own the land by invasion and conquering, then you must recognize Israel's same right to hold the land currently by the same logic. If, instead, you insist that the land belong to the original inhabitants prior to any hostile invasion, then it belongs still to Israel.

Or you can keep being snarky and uneducated.

One recognizes the Right of conquest

slight issue is the Right of conquest was abandon before Israel existed

it was replaced with Self-determination what was Violated to allow Israel to exist

also early Levantine and Anatolian Neolithic culture, did exist around 8000 to 7000 BC

Wall of Jericho implies some sort of social organization, division of labour, and classes.