Concealed weapon permits allowed, Student ID's not?

[David2074]

"So to put it simply, this is a law that clearly attempts to make it easier for conservatives to vote while it makes it harder for the educated youth to vote. I would love to hear the defense for this nonsensical bullshit."

Well, okay, seems pretty obvious to me though.
The article states that the student IDs don't have the required information on them.
I'm also pretty sure you don't even have to prove you are a US citizen to get a student ID.

On the other hand I have my concealed carry permit from WA state.
To get it I had to provide government issued photo ID, a full set of fingerprints and submit to local and FBI background checks. And yes, it has my address on it.
I don't use it to vote with but between that and a student ID I can see why it would be more likely to qualify. It has nothing to do with whether or not I am conservative. It has to do with what was required to get the two IDs.

This is really mountain out of a mole hill. It may be one of the approved forms of ID for voting but I seriously doubt many folks are using it. Most folks with a carry permit also have a driver's license. Likewise, most students have or should have either a DL or a state issued ID. It's difficult to function in life without one since they are required for opening bank accounts, cashing checks, buying booze and so on.

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

Mei tsuki7

Old Blue Collar Joe

Mei tsuki7

Old Blue Collar Joe

Mei tsuki7

Old Blue Collar Joe

The other thing they aren't looking at is that a CCL is government issued. Same as a drivers license, whereas student ID's are NOT government issued, and many universities will enroll even illegals, therefor attempting to claim that said student ID is 'valid' is hoping that no one will think this through and realize that the ID's are not legal forms of identification.
The whole cornerstone of this debate is about government issued forms of ID vs. non-government issued.
And I have yet to hear any more than speculative numbers, nothing concrete to back them up, but a s**t ton of fear mongering going on.
Once again, the simplest solution would be a free, state issued voting license, that one must provide proof of citizenship to obtain, and does nothing but note that person 'X' is a registered voter and legal to vote.
Can't cash checks with it, can't use it to buy booze. Just vote.
I am still waiting for a legitimate objection to someone being required to provide an ID to vote.

I would agree with the bolded IF it was easily obtainable. As in, you can get it through your college, a post office or something of the sort. The documents needed to get the free ID must ALSO be free as well including replacement documents.

The issue is actually about undue hardship. A state cannot make voting an undue hardship. Which means it cannot have things such as grandfather clauses, a poll tax (I personally see only allowing paid for IDs to vote as a poll tax), requiring people to all go to one place far away from where they live, requiring them to go to their legal residence to vote, etc. The legality of all voting laws are based on that measurement.

Which is why I state free. But only from government sources. A college ID is worthless. And no, I don't see a reason for grandfathering the law.
Requiring them to give their legal residence I have no issue with. You want to vote, you prove you are eligible. Not that difficult a concept. The honor system has turned into a joke.
I have no issue with multiple locations established to vote. But I definitely feel an ID is not an issue as far as paying goes. It should be free, but again, only for the purpose of voting.

My point is to allow colleges to give out free voter IDs. I mean, if you want to get technical then all public schools are governmental sources anyway. Plus most tend to have USPS offices which are also governmental. I'm not saying that college IDs should be able to be used UNLESS the college is allowed to put a special voter stamp on those IDs for students to use.

The Grandfather clause I'm talking about was part of Jim Crow laws that stated that you had to prove your grandfather voted to be able to vote. I'm not talking about grandfathering the law.

Private institutions should not be able to give those stamps. Oddly, when I registered to vote the first time, my high school did it, because it was public, but I still had to show who I was.
So no, stamps are too easily forged and thus should not be accepted. A proper ID should be required, but again, free.
Jim Crow laws no longer apply, and is irrelevant to the discussion. If someone is legally able to vote, their ancestry should mean jack and s**t.

Why?

I registered at my HS too. I didn't have to show who I was and I registered in class. You can do it through the mail in NYS.

A student ID can easily become a proper ID if certain measures are taken.

I only used them as an example of undue hardship requirements to vote. It was to illustrate that the legality of voting laws is based on the view of undue hardship.

Undue hardship? That is some cockamamie sack of s**t excuse. What? I have to get off my a** and not play my game console but catch a bus/ride and go four or so miles and waste a day to get an ID? The horrors!!!
******** that s**t. Get them off their a**.

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

Shama_okami

Old Blue Collar Joe

I am still waiting for a legitimate objection to someone being required to provide an ID to vote.

Because the number of cases involving in-person voter fraud is so ridiculously low that any such requirement can only do more harm than good. If you prevent 100 people from voting to stop 1 fraudulent vote you are not protecting the integrity of the process, you are destroying it.

So we're going to run down the slippery slope of a mythical situation that it makes it hard to vote because they need an ID? Seriously? It's also why I stated that we should give a voting only ID to citizens to allow them to vote.

[NyleveSivad]

One would think that our law makers would try to encourage young voters.

[Omnileech]

David2074

"So to put it simply, this is a law that clearly attempts to make it easier for conservatives to vote while it makes it harder for the educated youth to vote. I would love to hear the defense for this nonsensical bullshit."

Well, okay, seems pretty obvious to me though.
The article states that the student IDs don't have the required information on them.
I'm also pretty sure you don't even have to prove you are a US citizen to get a student ID.

On the other hand I have my concealed carry permit from WA state.
To get it I had to provide government issued photo ID, a full set of fingerprints and submit to local and FBI background checks. And yes, it has my address on it.
I don't use it to vote with but between that and a student ID I can see why it would be more likely to qualify. It has nothing to do with whether or not I am conservative. It has to do with what was required to get the two IDs.

This is really mountain out of a mole hill. It may be one of the approved forms of ID for voting but I seriously doubt many folks are using it. Most folks with a carry permit also have a driver's license. Likewise, most students have or should have either a DL or a state issued ID. It's difficult to function in life without one since they are required for opening bank accounts, cashing checks, buying booze and so on.

You don't even have to prove you are a US citizen to get a concealed carry permit.

This isn't a mountain out of a mole hill. Why should you be required to spend any money practice a fundamental right. You aren't required to have an ID. You aren't required to keep your ID current. If someone wishes to live without driving, buying booze, opening bank accounts, cashing checks, etc. Then they CAN. Those aren't constitutional rights and voting is.

If you would look at various articles about which citizens would be inconvenienced by requiring to show Photo ID to vote, then you would see it is a fairly large number. And I have yet to see any proponent of mandating showing photo ID who can even prove that election fraud is an issue under the status quo! They often don't even try because reality doesn't back their beliefs or assertions.

Having worked as an election official for several years, I can see why it's not an issue and there are many failsafes already in place to catch fraud that work just fine to deter election fraud as it's a really obvious crime.

[Seph Valentine]

PantheaMarlon

How is it illegal to say "Show an ID to vote." Sharpies, Spray paint, Booze, Cigerates, Cold medicines, Get on an airplane, hunting a fishing license, All have to have a Vaild ID To Purchase. Even better is States ID for Voting are FREE to that individual. They just up the price for the driver license for everyone else free ID's!

I very tired of people thinking it's okay that we have to recheck, recount all the votes because DUMBO, MICKEY MOUSE, Brat simpson, Jack Sparrow HAVE VOTED 10 TIMES in 7 states. That and the dead voting. When JFK Votes for the 2016 elections there is a Problem.

Actually, I do know someone who changed their name to Mickey Mouse....I also know of a family with the last name of Sparrow, who named their son Jack. Just because a fictional Character has the name, does not mean it is false. Of course I grew up near a family named Jackson whose kid was named Michael.

[Shama_okami]

Old Blue Collar Joe

Shama_okami

Old Blue Collar Joe

I am still waiting for a legitimate objection to someone being required to provide an ID to vote.

Because the number of cases involving in-person voter fraud is so ridiculously low that any such requirement can only do more harm than good. If you prevent 100 people from voting to stop 1 fraudulent vote you are not protecting the integrity of the process, you are destroying it.

So we're going to run down the slippery slope of a mythical situation that it makes it hard to vote because they need an ID? Seriously? It's also why I stated that we should give a voting only ID to citizens to allow them to vote.

No. We're going down the road of facts. Namely the cases of in-person voter fraud (the only type an ID would prevent) is so low as to be virtually non-existent while the number of people being blocked or disenfranchised from voting by voter ID laws is in the thousands.

[jamilee-nicole]

Aaaand cue the democrats going ballistic without gathering any facts.

This sounds crazy, but it's not. Student IDs are ******** plentiful, and are easily gained, stolen, and/or faked. It's not recognized by the government, the students themselves may or may not even be citizens, and might not be old enough to legally vote. Long story short, a student ID is a good option for voters fraud. It actually makes sense to ban those at the booths, for aforementioned security reasons.

Concealed weapons permits, whether you agree with them or not, are much much harder to fake, forge, or steal and are well recognized as a federal/state identification. You may be surprised to find that they are not very easily obtained. I know in my state you are required to take classes if you want one, if you even manage to get accepted.

Between the two, the permit is a more legally valid form of identification. Sorry if it rubs against your delicate sensibilities, but I would take a state issued permit over a mass produced student ID card any day.

[Omnileech]

jamilee-nicole

Aaaand cue the democrats going ballistic without gathering any facts.

This sounds crazy, but it's not. Student IDs are ******** plentiful, and are easily gained, stolen, and/or faked. It's not recognized by the government, the students themselves may or may not even be citizens, and might not be old enough to legally vote. Long story short, a student ID is a good option for voters fraud. It actually makes sense to ban those at the booths, for aforementioned security reasons.

Concealed weapons permits, whether you agree with them or not, are much much harder to fake, forge, or steal and are well recognized as a federal/state identification. You may be surprised to find that they are not very easily obtained. I know in my state you are required to take classes if you want one, if you even manage to get accepted.

Between the two, the permit is a more legally valid form of identification. Sorry if it rubs against your delicate sensibilities, but I would take a state issued permit over a mass produced student ID card any day.

Yet another person who thinks voter fraud is even a problem that must be addressed. Without of cause, you gathering any facts on it at all. So tell me, how many cases of intentional voter fraud have been found in the past 10 years that could have been avoided by photo ID? Can you even name 5?

[Illusion of the Ego]

jamilee-nicole

Aaaand cue the democrats going ballistic without gathering any facts.

This sounds crazy, but it's not. Student IDs are ******** plentiful, and are easily gained, stolen, and/or faked. It's not recognized by the government, the students themselves may or may not even be citizens, and might not be old enough to legally vote. Long story short, a student ID is a good option for voters fraud. It actually makes sense to ban those at the booths, for aforementioned security reasons.

Concealed weapons permits, whether you agree with them or not, are much much harder to fake, forge, or steal and are well recognized as a federal/state identification. You may be surprised to find that they are not very easily obtained. I know in my state you are required to take classes if you want one, if you even manage to get accepted.

Between the two, the permit is a more legally valid form of identification. Sorry if it rubs against your delicate sensibilities, but I would take a state issued permit over a mass produced student ID card any day.

Dont lump all democrats together, Im a registered democrat and think OP is a ******** moron for flying off the handle at a non issue

[Roy Cura]

God Emperor Baldur

Kaiser Khorosho

Student IDs aren't issued by the state, though, are they? So why is this a problem? -_-

Because it takes votes away from educated people instead of making it easier for them.

If these educated people were mildly diligent, they would find ways to vote.

I was a minority (Hispanic) in the state where I went to college. And the college had nearly 90% white kids. I just got an absentee ballot from my home state and mailed my vote. It took marginal effort. If I showed up to vote at a local voting facility with nothing but a student ID, I would have rightfully been laughed out of the vicinity.

[God Emperor Baldur]

Roy Cura

God Emperor Baldur

Kaiser Khorosho

Student IDs aren't issued by the state, though, are they? So why is this a problem? -_-

Because it takes votes away from educated people instead of making it easier for them.

If these educated people were mildly diligent, they would find ways to vote.

I was a minority (Hispanic) in the state where I went to college. And the college had nearly 90% white kids. I just got an absentee ballot from my home state and mailed my vote. It took marginal effort. If I showed up to vote at a local voting facility with nothing but a student ID, I would have rightfully been laughed out of the vicinity.

You don't get it, do you? It purposely makes it difficult to vote. Sure there are students with drivers licenses and passports, but many don't and their right to vote is being taken away because of their situation. Do you honestly think these legislators will make it easier for absentee ballots? North Carolina made it so absentee voting can only happen a week prior to election.

[Roy Cura]

God Emperor Baldur

Roy Cura

God Emperor Baldur

Kaiser Khorosho

Student IDs aren't issued by the state, though, are they? So why is this a problem? -_-

Because it takes votes away from educated people instead of making it easier for them.

If these educated people were mildly diligent, they would find ways to vote.

I was a minority (Hispanic) in the state where I went to college. And the college had nearly 90% white kids. I just got an absentee ballot from my home state and mailed my vote. It took marginal effort. If I showed up to vote at a local voting facility with nothing but a student ID, I would have rightfully been laughed out of the vicinity.

You don't get it, do you? It purposely makes it difficult to vote. Sure there are students with drivers licenses and passports, but many don't and their right to vote is being taken away because of their situation. Do you honestly think these legislators will make it easier for absentee ballots? North Carolina made it so absentee voting can only happen a week prior to election.

What if I showed them my Starbucks rewards card at the ballots? How come that's not a valid voter ID? It's harder for me to vote because I can't show that. But wait. Expecting people to recognize a Starbucks rewards card as proof of my eligibility to vote is nonsense. Showing a student ID given by a university (which might not even be a state-sponsored university) is not the same level of nonsense, but it's still not a reliable standard for voter eligibility.

I'll admit, a concealed weapons permit may not also be the most reliable standard.

But seriously. Government ID is NOT difficult to obtain. If you're too inept and irresponsible to dig up your own person records to prove that you're eligible to vote, then maybe you shouldn't be voting.

[God Emperor Baldur]

Roy Cura

God Emperor Baldur

Roy Cura

God Emperor Baldur

Kaiser Khorosho

Student IDs aren't issued by the state, though, are they? So why is this a problem? -_-

Because it takes votes away from educated people instead of making it easier for them.

If these educated people were mildly diligent, they would find ways to vote.

I was a minority (Hispanic) in the state where I went to college. And the college had nearly 90% white kids. I just got an absentee ballot from my home state and mailed my vote. It took marginal effort. If I showed up to vote at a local voting facility with nothing but a student ID, I would have rightfully been laughed out of the vicinity.

You don't get it, do you? It purposely makes it difficult to vote. Sure there are students with drivers licenses and passports, but many don't and their right to vote is being taken away because of their situation. Do you honestly think these legislators will make it easier for absentee ballots? North Carolina made it so absentee voting can only happen a week prior to election.

What if I showed them my Starbucks rewards card at the ballots? How come that's not a valid voter ID? It's harder for me to vote because I can't show that. But wait. Expecting people to recognize a Starbucks rewards card as proof of my eligibility to vote is nonsense. Showing a student ID given by a university (which might not even be a state-sponsored university) is not the same level of nonsense, but it's still not a reliable standard for voter eligibility.

I'll admit, a concealed weapons permit may not also be the most reliable standard.

But seriously. Government ID is NOT difficult to obtain. If you're too inept and irresponsible to dig up your own person records to prove that you're eligible to vote, then maybe you shouldn't be voting.

A better question is why do you even need one?

[Roy Cura]

God Emperor Baldur

Roy Cura

God Emperor Baldur

Roy Cura

God Emperor Baldur

Kaiser Khorosho

Student IDs aren't issued by the state, though, are they? So why is this a problem? -_-

Because it takes votes away from educated people instead of making it easier for them.

If these educated people were mildly diligent, they would find ways to vote.

I was a minority (Hispanic) in the state where I went to college. And the college had nearly 90% white kids. I just got an absentee ballot from my home state and mailed my vote. It took marginal effort. If I showed up to vote at a local voting facility with nothing but a student ID, I would have rightfully been laughed out of the vicinity.

You don't get it, do you? It purposely makes it difficult to vote. Sure there are students with drivers licenses and passports, but many don't and their right to vote is being taken away because of their situation. Do you honestly think these legislators will make it easier for absentee ballots? North Carolina made it so absentee voting can only happen a week prior to election.

What if I showed them my Starbucks rewards card at the ballots? How come that's not a valid voter ID? It's harder for me to vote because I can't show that. But wait. Expecting people to recognize a Starbucks rewards card as proof of my eligibility to vote is nonsense. Showing a student ID given by a university (which might not even be a state-sponsored university) is not the same level of nonsense, but it's still not a reliable standard for voter eligibility.

I'll admit, a concealed weapons permit may not also be the most reliable standard.

But seriously. Government ID is NOT difficult to obtain. If you're too inept and irresponsible to dig up your own person records to prove that you're eligible to vote, then maybe you shouldn't be voting.

A better question is why do you even need one?

Not sure what you mean.

Why do I need a Starbucks rewards card? I get 10 cents off every coffee I buy. ^_^

Why do I need a government-issued ID to vote? Well, typically, they tend to include accurate information about your birth date and your citizenship status. Whereas things like my Starbucks rewards card do not supply that info (or provide a reasonable guarantee that it is accurate). So, assuming that the people running voting poles need to acknowledge that you're citizen, then government-issued ID's are much more trustworthy. You understand?