May be spoilers if you haven't seen the latest ep.
Something I've noticed throughout my exploration of this fandom is the hatred of female characters I see going around.
I mean, obviously Arya is a fan favourite. How could one not love a cute little girl who wants to be a fighter? Who would rather go out and do masculine things, as opposed to behaving the way a lady is expected?
Aside from Arya, though, (and maybe Ygritte), I don't see much love for female characters in this show. Looking around the forums (and not only these forums), I see people expressing joy that Catelyn is dead; Catelyn, who, aside from scorning Jon (understandably), has really done no one any wrong? She was a loving mother who would do anything for her children, she loved her husband and would do whatever she could to make him happy, she cared for her sister and father and uncle and brother, she was just overall very compassionate. She was also quite smart and worked well as an advisor. Yes, in some situations she would allow her emotions to get the best of her; but if your husband was murdered and your children were being held hostage, at war, or assumed dead, wouldn't you be terribly emotional? I don't understand the hate her character gets.
Another character that is quite hated in this fandom, is, of course, Sansa. Sansa happens to be my favourite character, and sure, she's not without her faults. But she's a little girl- 13 when the series begins! Of course she's going to have wild fantasies, of course she's going to want to marry the gorgeous prince and expect to have a happily ever after, of course she's going to be upset when she doesn't get her way. She's a little girl. Just because she isn't a tough, fiery little girl like Arya, just because she makes mistakes, she has become on of the most hated characters in this fandom. Just because she acts the way a little girl would act. I don't get it.
And then of course we have Cersei. I've seen people who claim to love all the Lannisters, and then make an exception for Cersei. Really? What she has done is no more contemptible than what Jaime or Tyrion have done; why does Jaime get to be redeemed? Why is Tyrion a fan favourite? Cersei wanted to be a man when she was younger too. She was a tomboy like Arya; of course, her father put an end to that, and she was taught how to rule as a lady. She's incredibly intelligent, conniving, and she's fighting to stay on top. Why is it that male characters with these characteristics are given more love than she is? She's even a loving mother, more than I can say for Jaime. Yes, she knows Joffrey's a little s**t, but she loves him as only a mother could. She cares for Tommen and Myrcella more than anything in the world. She is no better or worse than her two brothers, so why is it she gets so much hatred?
These are only three of the female characters I've noticed getting hatred, though there are quite a lot more.
I think GRRM does an excellent job with the way he portrays women. They're strong, capable, and still retain their femininity. I just don't understand why the fandom hates them so much.
I KNOW! It infuriates me with how much hate goes around on the female characters within the series. I've never really understood why that is the case, though. A lack of understanding the multi-dimensionalism of the characters, I suppose.
True. In most cases, if a female isn't out there kicking a**, they're going to get hate. And if they show too much femininity doing it, they'll probably still get hate. (Buffy being an exception.)
It's a shame, I like Skyler. I think she's pretty cool.
.D.r.e.A.m.e.R.
True. Honestly, I forgot all about Dany haha.
Though something tells me, after the sacking of Astapor, she probably won't be so popular. Once she stops acting like the badass Queen of Dragons and starts acting like a lost little girl who doesn't know as much about war as she let on, she'll probably get a lot more hate.
Adonia Lambros
Exactly. It goes to show why Khal Drogo is so popular. He's a hot, badass dude. Nevermind the woman who sacrificed her life to have him killed in order to avenge her village. (Not that I particularly liked Mirri Maz Duur or anything, I just think people misunderstand her too much.)
people who hate women characters souly because they are women are misogynists
people who hate women characters because they're bad characters... idk
i don't really hate any female characters
Sansa is so sweet. like. still. SHE IS SO SWEET AND KIND AND SOFT and like she saw her
******** father die, and she pretty much gets ******** over left and right
and you know what, she gets up and carry's on and she keeps going so she's a good character
Cerci is a badass b***h from hell. people can hate her all they want but when she said
'if you ever call me your sister again i'll have you strangled in your sleep' i was like 'she's not ******** around'
Daenerys....MOTHER OF DRAGONS!!?!??! if you hate the mother of dragons, the free-er of slaves, and a femanist to a t...idk you haven't been paying attention
Margaery Tyrell i feel like is a genuinely good person, even though she always looks like she's scheming. (her grandmother's a bamf too)
The red woman gets s**t done
Catelyn stark i mean she let jaime lannister go but what do you expect from a grieving mothers whose husband died
and hasn't seen her children in over a year? like i'd be pretty ******** desperate too
idk in my opinion the female characters are the best ones.
Hating on Starks in general is a Thing, because they do stupid things on a consistent basis. It's not just the women.
Ned: Why would he trust Cersei with his plans? If he's worried about giving her time to get away with her kids, tell her that you've sent a raven with the evidence to Oldtown, Dorne, Highgarden, and Storm's End. That way she's got nothing to gain by murder, and her only option is to haul a**.
Catelyn: She's going to start a war over extremely circumstantial evidence? If she cares about her kids, keep them the hell out of danger. Get revenge when you've got proof.
Sansa: There's naive and then there's plain stupid. If she'd kept her mouth shut, she and Arya would be fine.
Jon: I think a lot of the hate for Jon comes from dislike for Kit Harrington, not the character of Jon Snow himself. Harrington is pretty, but he has less range than any other actor on the show. Of course, after the last couple of episodes, plenty of people hate the character himself, too. And there are plenty of other reasons that book readers hate him, which will start being revealed next season or in season 5.
Bran: Not a noticeable moron. I think some people get bored with his storyline.
Arya: Seems super-smart, and she shows more ability to learn from situations than the rest of her family. However, she has no control of her temper.
She's gonna get there, though. Melisandre is right about her.
Honestly, I think the reason some people hate her is because she makes Sansa look even dumber by comparison.
Robb: Has his father's habit of choosing honor over intelligence, and not trying to find a solution that is both honorable and smart.
It can be worse with book readers, because his choice of bride is far less capable and intelligent - she's just pretty, end of story. He has sex with her, then decides that her honor is more important than honoring a sworn oath.
Rickon: So far, his only flaw is being Sir Not Appearing In This Film. Then again, considering what happens to characters that get lines/chapters, this may not be a bad thing.
I should also point out that it's mainly female Starks that get hate. Fans love Daenerys, Lady Oleanna, and Margaery.
Catelyn- Annoyingly fickle and pretty snobby to those outside her social cask.
Sansa- Her naive foolishness. Sandor offers a chance to flee and she turns it down. Apparently 'her place' is to be used like a toy by every house in the court. It's infuriatingly dumb. Plain and simple.
Daenerys- Ehhhh, she's just overrated and far to hotheaded.
Ned: Why would he trust Cersei with his plans? If he's worried about giving her time to get away with her kids, tell her that you've sent a raven with the evidence to Oldtown, Dorne, Highgarden, and Storm's End. That way she's got nothing to gain by murder, and her only option is to haul a**.
Wasn't stupidity, it was honour. He knew full well what he was risking. In his eyes doing that was to far underhanded for his moral code of honour.
Yes, the Starks holding honor above all else is definitely insane, but they have reasons for their actions. I feel like if more people understood the reasoning, they'd get a bit less hatred.
Even if the Starks are hated, the female ones are hated moreso (with the exception of Arya.)
If Sansa had kept her mouth shut she and Arya would be fine? I haven't read the books in about a year, so I'm just wondering what part you're talking about. I can't really think of a situation where Sansa not saying something would have saved them.
I'm a book reader and I still like Jon haha.
As for Robb, well, I think he's worse in the show than in the book. In the show he is actively seeking out this woman, who he could have just let be. She wouldn't have tried to make a move on him of her own accord.
In the book he's in a time of need. Jeyne Westerling is never described as pretty; she's a plain little thing. The reason he slept with her was the stress he was feeling. He needed companionship and she was there to give it to him; after that, he did that silly little thing Starks have the compulsion to do and put her honor above his oath. Yes, it was stupid, but not as stupid as what he did in the show.
Martyr_of_Death
Sansa- Her naive foolishness. Sandor offers a chance to flee and she turns it down. Apparently 'her place' is to be used like a toy by every house in the court. It's infuriatingly dumb. Plain and simple.
I thought she accepted his offer in the books, but something happened? I can't recall. Either way, she thought her freedom was coming regardless. Joffrey was meant to marry Margaery. She thought that meant she'd be freed, because she didn't know how important it was to keep her prisoner. When it comes to the show I don't blame her for not going with the Hound- they didn't have anything close to the dynamic they had in the book.
GRRM portrays women, as he said, as people.
It's sad because alot of fandoms are pretty sexists and can't appreciate women who don't have the typical (masculine) form of strength.
Cat, Sansa & Cersei are each strong in their own way, and each keep their femininity as well, still they are called bitches and stupid by the fandom.
But then you could mention Arya, Brienne or Dany and people would love them for being ~badass~ despite of them committing mistakes as well, and being just as human as the other three mentioned.
To a lot of people, unconsciously, the only type of power there is is the masculine one and thus can only appreciate that.
It's pretty sad because all characters are very deep and well-done and people refuse to see the depth in some of them :/
Because everything is catelyn's fault.
She's an idiot. I don't care if she was doing what she thought was right for her family. She ******** it all up. SHE KIDNAPPED THE THE SON OF THE RICHEST FAMILY IN THE 7 KINGDOMS. SHE EMBARRASSED THE LANNISTER NAME. THUS FORCING THE CONFRONTATION OF JAIME AND NED. Ned then wasn't able to leave King's Landing because of his leg wound and was imprisoned
and executed.
Sansa is naive and timid. She doesn't have much intrigue, she's a pity character.
Everybody loves Arya <3
Dany used to be unrightfully arrogant, but now that arrogance is well deserved.
Regarding the lannisters
I understand why some people may hate some lannisters more than others. Cersei is just downright terrible. Extremely Bitter and extremely vindictive. She's the walder frey of the south. She's a good mother but a terrible person.
Joffrey is over-cruel. The cruelest of the cruel.
Tyrion is clever and plays on the sympathetic side of peoples emotions. He can easily outwit people and he always has interesting dialogue. In the books we get to see how he thinks and it's extremely interesting.
Jaime goes full redemption mode and because an extremely likeable character. Basically because Brienne traveled with him and the loss of his hand.
ALSO MAYBE
JUST MAYBE
PEOPLE HATE CERSEI
BECAUSE SHE GAVE BIRTH TO JOFFREY
She and jaime brought the shitstain to life.
She could have brew some moon tea.
In the end it's all in the eye of the beholder. These are my opinions.
Catelyn- Annoyingly fickle and pretty snobby to those outside her social cask.
Sansa- Her naive foolishness. Sandor offers a chance to flee and she turns it down. Apparently 'her place' is to be used like a toy by every house in the court. It's infuriatingly dumb. Plain and simple.
Daenerys- Ehhhh, she's just overrated and far to hotheaded.
Yes, because in Sansa's case the best thing would be to go with a drunk and angry man who threatened to kill her right there after offering her to take her to the North.
Sandor is pretty emotionally unstable (specially in that part where he just broke down AND is completely drunk) and all characters as well as readers know this :/
Sansa going with him would have only turned things for worse for both of them.
Had Stannis won that battle, he'd given her much more respect than the Lannister did, Stannis still sticks by the rules and he's not a cruel man. By that point, it seemed pretty obvious that Stannis was to win. AKA staying with Stannis seemed like a better option than going off with an angry drunk.
Also, I'll remind you that Sansa is not in the court by choice. How is it dumb if she's being forced to it?
I agree with you on Dany tho.
She's overrated and hot headed, but that's part of her realism. SHE'S ******** 16 YRS OLD.
As for Cat, I remember her worrying over Robb's men. Soldiers and other low ranks.
Wow what an a**, she's worrying for peasants omg how dare she?
I thought she accepted his offer in the books, but something happened? I can't recall. Either way, she thought her freedom was coming regardless. Joffrey was meant to marry Margaery. She thought that meant she'd be freed, because she didn't know how important it was to keep her prisoner. When it comes to the show I don't blame her for not going with the Hound- they didn't have anything close to the dynamic they had in the book.
No, as I recall, he offers to take Sansa away, but she refuses, so he then holds her at knifepoint demanding she sing Florian and Jonquil, but she freaks and starts singing the hymn to the Mother, then Sandor slips out quietly.
Yes! As long as people could understand the depth of the characters, I wouldn't even mind if they still hated them. It's one thing to say you don't like a character because of their personality, it's another to say you don't like a character because they're "stupid" and leave it at that.
(by the way I love your avatar)
Of House Stark
ALSO MAYBE
JUST MAYBE
PEOPLE HATE CERSEI
BECAUSE SHE GAVE BIRTH TO JOFFREY
She and jaime brought the shitstain to life.
yes, because we should all have abortions just in case the kid we have happens to be like Joffrey. we should all expect something like that to happen.
If Cersei was given a redemption arc the way Jaime was, she could easily be a likeable character. It's not her fault she had Joffrey. Both Tommen and Myrcella turned out fine. Joff just happened to look up to his father more than they did. (His father by law, Robert Baratheon, that is.)
Martyr_of_Death
Ah, yeah, that's right. I remember now.
Still, going off with Sandor wouldn't have been the safest option, especially with the state he was in.
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