Masculine vs. Feminine: REI Style

[Twinky Dave]

StrawberryZ0mbie

Twinky Dave

StrawberryZ0mbie

Updated the front page with a post that follows current REIs and tracts them as they're still evolving. C=

we need to get this thread noticed, and make it more popular.

Haha. Yeah. I haven't done much advertising for it outside putting it i my signature, really. I linked to it in one of my other threads too. I guess if I see appropriate places, I should link it so more people learn about it. =3

yeah haha, i dont know the numbers get to me.
im a guy, but my avatar even when it is a guy (which it usually is) its a bit feminine to say the least and people get on to me for posting in threads like these, and its like what else am i supposed to do with what im given the same quality isn't going into male items!!! scream

[Elen_Gilthoniel]

Twinky Dave

StrawberryZ0mbie

Twinky Dave

StrawberryZ0mbie

Updated the front page with a post that follows current REIs and tracts them as they're still evolving. C=

we need to get this thread noticed, and make it more popular.

Haha. Yeah. I haven't done much advertising for it outside putting it i my signature, really. I linked to it in one of my other threads too. I guess if I see appropriate places, I should link it so more people learn about it. =3

yeah haha, i dont know the numbers get to me.
im a guy, but my avatar even when it is a guy (which it usually is) its a bit feminine to say the least and people get on to me for posting in threads like these, and its like what else am i supposed to do with what im given the same quality isn't going into male items!!! scream

I considered including recolors with the numbers. That would have jumped the feminine items up to like...28 total. But the male items would have stayed at 4. =w= I decided that was a little too sensationalist so I left recolors out of the final numbers.

I don't know how bad the numbers are when it comes to RIGs and Gold shops but sometimes it feels the only places we get an even number of masculine/feminine items are CS bundles and MCs. ^_^;;;

[Twinky Dave]

StrawberryZ0mbie

Twinky Dave

StrawberryZ0mbie

Twinky Dave

StrawberryZ0mbie

Updated the front page with a post that follows current REIs and tracts them as they're still evolving. C=

we need to get this thread noticed, and make it more popular.

Haha. Yeah. I haven't done much advertising for it outside putting it i my signature, really. I linked to it in one of my other threads too. I guess if I see appropriate places, I should link it so more people learn about it. =3

yeah haha, i dont know the numbers get to me.
im a guy, but my avatar even when it is a guy (which it usually is) its a bit feminine to say the least and people get on to me for posting in threads like these, and its like what else am i supposed to do with what im given the same quality isn't going into male items!!! scream

I considered including recolors with the numbers. That would have jumped the feminine items up to like...28 total. But the male items would have stayed at 4. =w= I decided that was a little too sensationalist so I left recolors out of the final numbers.

I don't know how bad the numbers are when it comes to RIGs and Gold shops but sometimes it feels the only places we get an even number of masculine/feminine items are CS bundles and MCs. ^_^;;;

yes ma'am you're right. it just seems the female cs items/mcs get a bit more effort put into them on quite a few occasions, well comparitively

[Elen_Gilthoniel]

Twinky Dave

StrawberryZ0mbie

Twinky Dave

StrawberryZ0mbie

Twinky Dave

StrawberryZ0mbie

Updated the front page with a post that follows current REIs and tracts them as they're still evolving. C=

we need to get this thread noticed, and make it more popular.

Haha. Yeah. I haven't done much advertising for it outside putting it i my signature, really. I linked to it in one of my other threads too. I guess if I see appropriate places, I should link it so more people learn about it. =3

yeah haha, i dont know the numbers get to me.
im a guy, but my avatar even when it is a guy (which it usually is) its a bit feminine to say the least and people get on to me for posting in threads like these, and its like what else am i supposed to do with what im given the same quality isn't going into male items!!! scream

I considered including recolors with the numbers. That would have jumped the feminine items up to like...28 total. But the male items would have stayed at 4. =w= I decided that was a little too sensationalist so I left recolors out of the final numbers.

I don't know how bad the numbers are when it comes to RIGs and Gold shops but sometimes it feels the only places we get an even number of masculine/feminine items are CS bundles and MCs. ^_^;;;

yes ma'am you're right. it just seems the female cs items/mcs get a bit more effort put into them on quite a few occasions, well comparitively

I've only noticed a difference in actual quality on a few occasions. Last month's MCs are a good example. The male one just didn't seem to have the quality the female one had, at all. It was a great concept, but the execution was kind of bleh. Most of the times, when it comes to items that tend to stay pretty gender balanced, I almost always like the male item better. XD

[GoldSundara]

awesome analysis

<3

[Hi-Potion]

This entire thread is BS xD;;
Nearly every REI is half male and half female.
Anyone could see that just from looking at a completed REI.

[Elen_Gilthoniel]

Hi-Potion

This entire thread is BS xD;;
Nearly every REI is half male and half female.
Anyone could see that just from looking at a completed REI.

LoL. Seriously? "Nearly every?" Riiiiiiight.

I thought the same thing until I tried looking them without being biased or assuming everyone who disagreed was being a whiny jackass--which I did, in fact, start this thread thinking. Most REIs have a lot of small neutral poses, a lot of more significant feminine poses, and usually (but not always) a few more masculine poses. But I feel like REIs tend to be colored by the poses that tend to actually draw people in--the wigs, the face mods, the major clothing articles. If something has three wigs in feminine hairstyles, a female face mod, two dresses, stockings, a purse and girl shoes, ....then even if it has a belt, vest, hat, gloves, two backgrounds, a ring and boots....is it really "half male and half female"--you may think so. I don't. *shrugs*

You're welcome to think it's "BS" if you want, though--lots of people do and I'm completely aware of that. xD;;

Then again, I didn't really make this thread to whine. More just because I thought it was interesting. Thanks for being the first nay-sayer, though. Because...I actually like you pretty well and know you're a generally reasonable person. So I'd rather you pop in and tell me I'm full of crap rather than someone I detest. emotion_awesome

EDIT: I did want to add, though...

All star cheer
Keiko's Cake
Band of Bremen
Daughter of Snows
Rosamund's Revenge/Redemption
Sainte Ciel/Storge/Agape
Lovely/Little Lucie
Le Carousel
Pistolera/Revenge
Trilune's Covenant/Promise

Please tell me how any of these are "half male" ;D I mean, counting the recolors...that is like 18 REIs. So..."nearly every"...? Though, really...if you consider those to be "half male"--I would love to hear your reasons why. I know people are going to look at things differently than me so it's always great to hear why people think that way. C=

[Hi-Potion]

StrawberryZ0mbie

Hi-Potion

This entire thread is BS xD;;
Nearly every REI is half male and half female.
Anyone could see that just from looking at a completed REI.

LoL. Seriously? "Nearly every?" Riiiiiiight.

I thought the same thing until I tried looking them without being biased or assuming everyone who disagreed was being a whiny jackass--which I did, in fact, start this thread thinking. Most REIs have a lot of small neutral poses, a lot of more significant feminine poses, and usually (but not always) a few more masculine poses. But I feel like REIs tend to be colored by the poses that tend to actually draw people in--the wigs, the face mods, the major clothing articles. If something has three wigs in feminine hairstyles, a female face mod, two dresses, stockings, a purse and girl shoes, ....then even if it has a belt, vest, hat, gloves, two backgrounds, a ring and boots....is it really "half male and half female"--you may think so. I don't. *shrugs*

You're welcome to think it's "BS" if you want, though--lots of people do and I'm completely aware of that. xD;;

Then again, I didn't really make this thread to whine. More just because I thought it was interesting. Thanks for being the first nay-sayer, though. Because...I actually like you pretty well and know you're a generally reasonable person. So I'd rather you pop in and tell me I'm full of crap rather than someone I detest. emotion_awesome

Well I think the main problem is that, even though they tend to be half and half, theyre stylized in a way that draws males AWAY from the more masculine poses?
Like the Polar Tear, for example, the male hair, scarf, belt thing, etc were either bulky or coloured in a way they looked feminine, even though the names SAY theyre male. whereas the shoes and sweater could be seen as obviously male. And with the female hair and eyes looking a tad bit more obvious, they overpower the male poses and make the EI look mostly feminine. Whereas it has 6 male poses, 7 if you count the discarded dress (which belongs to the male characters beloved), 5 obviously female poses, and 6 gender neutral poses. The breakdown is pretty equal, and yet the female poses tend to overwhelm the male poses.

And the Song Of Amour, although not completed, seems to be alternating between male, female, and neutral poses.

[Elen_Gilthoniel]

Hi-Potion

StrawberryZ0mbie

Hi-Potion

This entire thread is BS xD;;
Nearly every REI is half male and half female.
Anyone could see that just from looking at a completed REI.

LoL. Seriously? "Nearly every?" Riiiiiiight.

I thought the same thing until I tried looking them without being biased or assuming everyone who disagreed was being a whiny jackass--which I did, in fact, start this thread thinking. Most REIs have a lot of small neutral poses, a lot of more significant feminine poses, and usually (but not always) a few more masculine poses. But I feel like REIs tend to be colored by the poses that tend to actually draw people in--the wigs, the face mods, the major clothing articles. If something has three wigs in feminine hairstyles, a female face mod, two dresses, stockings, a purse and girl shoes, ....then even if it has a belt, vest, hat, gloves, two backgrounds, a ring and boots....is it really "half male and half female"--you may think so. I don't. *shrugs*

You're welcome to think it's "BS" if you want, though--lots of people do and I'm completely aware of that. xD;;

Then again, I didn't really make this thread to whine. More just because I thought it was interesting. Thanks for being the first nay-sayer, though. Because...I actually like you pretty well and know you're a generally reasonable person. So I'd rather you pop in and tell me I'm full of crap rather than someone I detest. emotion_awesome

Well I think the main problem is that, even though they tend to be half and half, theyre stylized in a way that draws males AWAY from the more masculine poses?
Like the Polar Tear, for example, the male hair, scarf, belt thing, etc were either bulky or coloured in a way they looked feminine, even though the names SAY theyre male. whereas the shoes and sweater could be seen as obviously male. And with the female hair and eyes looking a tad bit more obvious, they overpower the male poses and make the EI look mostly feminine. Whereas it has 6 male poses, 7 if you count the discarded dress (which belongs to the male characters beloved), 5 obviously female poses, and 6 gender neutral poses. The breakdown is pretty equal, and yet the female poses tend to overwhelm the male poses.

And the Song Of Amour, although not completed, seems to be alternating between male, female, and neutral poses.

I get what you're saying but I didn't count something as male (or female) just because it's labeled with the male or female character. Scarves, unless they have bows or ribbons, I always count as neutral, not male. It doesn't matter the REI. So in polar tear, the scarf was counted as a gender neutral pose. Using the same example, the scarf in Lady Jayne was also counted as a gender neutral pose because even though it was Jayne's scarf, it's...a scarf. It's not feminine just because her name is attached to it. It's neutral, regardless.

So I guess that is to say that just because a pose belongs to a male character, I don't consider it a masculine pose by default. Just like I don't consider a pose feminine because it belongs to a girl character. I tried to look at the pose itself? I also try to look at the "weight" of a pose.

If the guy gets a scarf and a belt and a pair of gloves. But If the girl gets a wig and a face mod and a dress....well...those poses kind of hold more weight, you know? Major clothing articles hold a lot more significance in the popularity of an REI, and the overall impression, than accessories. Part of the issue is that people get frustrated that the girl characters get a lot of significant poses, where the guy characters often just get accessories. That goes back to what you're saying about how the poses break down into male character/female character pretty evenly, but that doesn't mean it's really evenly masculine or feminine. At least not to me.

That's really why I made the thread. I think a male or female pose is different from a masculine or feminine pose and that's kind of the problem? But it does go both ways. I mean, many people in the "more masculine items" camp consider Apprentice Charm to be a feminine REI just because it involves baby blue, has a dress, and the main character is a girl. But if you look at the poses, even if there isn't a male character, it's actually a pretty neutral REI. I don't consider it girly just because the main character is a girl and most of the poses seem to be for her because the hat, gloves, sleeves, capelet and stuff...whether they're for a girl character or not, they're neutral poses.

I do need to update the bit about Song of Amour on the front page because I was on vacation when we got Friday's update with the poses for the male character and I haven't added that yet. C=

[The Drunken Jester]

StrawberryZ0mbie

I get what you're saying but I didn't count something as male (or female) just because it's labeled with the male or female character. Scarves, unless they have bows or ribbons, I always count as neutral, not male. It doesn't matter the REI. So in polar tear, the scarf was counted as a gender neutral pose. Using the same example, the scarf in Lady Jayne was also counted as a gender neutral pose because even though it was Jayne's scarf, it's...a scarf. It's not feminine just because her name is attached to it. It's neutral, regardless.

So I guess that is to say that just because a pose belongs to a male character, I don't consider it a masculine pose by default. Just like I don't consider a pose feminine because it belongs to a girl character. I tried to look at the pose itself? I also try to look at the "weight" of a pose.

If the guy gets a scarf and a belt and a pair of gloves. But If the girl gets a wig and a face mod and a dress....well...those poses kind of hold more weight, you know? Major clothing articles hold a lot more significance in the popularity of an REI, and the overall impression, than accessories. Part of the issue is that people get frustrated that the girl characters get a lot of significant poses, where the guy characters often just get accessories. That goes back to what you're saying about how the poses break down into male character/female character pretty evenly, but that doesn't mean it's really evenly masculine or feminine. At least not to me.

That's really why I made the thread. I think a male or female pose is different from a masculine or feminine pose and that's kind of the problem? But it does go both ways. I mean, many people in the "more masculine items" camp consider Apprentice Charm to be a feminine REI just because it involves baby blue, has a dress, and the main character is a girl. But if you look at the poses, even if there isn't a male character, it's actually a pretty neutral REI. I don't consider it girly just because the main character is a girl and most of the poses seem to be for her because the hat, gloves, sleeves, capelet and stuff...whether they're for a girl character or not, they're neutral poses.

I do need to update the bit about Song of Amour on the front page because I was on vacation when we got Friday's update with the poses for the male character and I haven't added that yet. C=

EDIT: OMG, Y U quote the wrong person GAIA?
Fix'd

I have a few issues with this.
You say a scarf is just a scarf, then you give qualifications to make it a 'female' type item. But what would it take for you to consider it a male item? Can a scarf ONLY be female or neutral?
It's that sort of thing that makes the argument break down a little IMO.
I tend to find that the people consider the same thing true for things like regular pants and shirts too.
A pair of jeans is just a pair of jeans.... then you put lace on them and OMG "GIRL jeans!"

[Elen_Gilthoniel]

The Drunken Jester

StrawberryZ0mbie

Hi-Potion

This entire thread is BS xD;;
Nearly every REI is half male and half female.
Anyone could see that just from looking at a completed REI.

LoL. Seriously? "Nearly every?" Riiiiiiight.

I thought the same thing until I tried looking them without being biased or assuming everyone who disagreed was being a whiny jackass--which I did, in fact, start this thread thinking. Most REIs have a lot of small neutral poses, a lot of more significant feminine poses, and usually (but not always) a few more masculine poses. But I feel like REIs tend to be colored by the poses that tend to actually draw people in--the wigs, the face mods, the major clothing articles. If something has three wigs in feminine hairstyles, a female face mod, two dresses, stockings, a purse and girl shoes, ....then even if it has a belt, vest, hat, gloves, two backgrounds, a ring and boots....is it really "half male and half female"--you may think so. I don't. *shrugs*

You're welcome to think it's "BS" if you want, though--lots of people do and I'm completely aware of that. xD;;

Then again, I didn't really make this thread to whine. More just because I thought it was interesting. Thanks for being the first nay-sayer, though. Because...I actually like you pretty well and know you're a generally reasonable person. So I'd rather you pop in and tell me I'm full of crap rather than someone I detest. emotion_awesome

EDIT: OMG, Y U quote the wrong person GAIA?
Fix'd

I have a few issues with this.
You say a scarf is just a scarf, then you give qualifications to make it a 'female' type item. But what would it take for you to consider it a male item? Can a scarf ONLY be female or neutral?
It's that sort of thing that makes the argument break down a little IMO.
I tend to find that the people consider the same thing true for things like regular pants and shirts too.
A pair of jeans is just a pair of jeans.... then you put lace on them and OMG "GIRL jeans!"

No, I do understand you. I actually address this issue a lot in my first few posts. Because the main problem with this entire issue is that by Western standards, it is far easier to make something look overtly feminine than it is to make something overtly male.

While feminine fashion overlaps male fashion by a large amount, it doesn't go both ways. While there are men who wear bows in their hair, and wear fishnet stockings and high heels, or skirts with bows and ruffles--this is a minority. Most males would never consider wearing red pumps or a mini skirt. Therefore, when someone sees red pumps and a mini skirt, they say "Well, that's feminine." But girls are pretty much just as likely to wear a suit, or combat boots, or baggy pants as a guy.

So while airy colors and flowers tend to be defined as feminine.....defining masculine is much, much more difficult. Not only do I get that, but I also believe it's part of the issue at hand here. So you're right. I do consider it possible to make a scarf overtly feminine by putting little pink hearts on it, lacy detailing and bows while I think that making a scarf overtly masculine would be much, much more difficult. This is based on current fashion standards for males and females. We can argue about men wearing flowers and pink all day. But we all know that when we walk into the male side of a department store, we're not going to find a sheer, lace trimmed pink scarf with a delicate floral print and bows on the ends, lurking in the men's section. And I guess that is kind of what I use as a standard.

That's also the reason I ranked everything on a scale. I honestly just don't think it's as cut and dry as saying "This is feminine" or "This is masculine" in most cases, with most REIs. Most of the time, it's better to say something like "This is more feminine (in my opinion of course) than it is masculine."

[Kavalis]

Omg you just blew my mind eek
I always knew that most rei tend to be more on the girly side but i never knew how much. Good show.

[Elen_Gilthoniel]

Finally updated. ;~~;

[kewefefe]

I somehow just stumbled onto this thread today and it is amazing. o.o Just wanted to give ya a big old thank you for taking the time to do this.

*subscribes and <3s*

^.^

[Elen_Gilthoniel]

I've updated the in-progress summary of Parcel Post (though it hardly seems needed since the REI is clearly more feminine than masculine or neutral at this point. LoL.

I believe I'm going to go back and note who the artist is on each REI (presuming we know the artists for all of them) since it'll be interesting to see the 'track record' of artists, as far as which gender they seem to prefer as far as REIs are concerned. C=