Top Fishers December 2010 [Contests!]

[Gaidin]

Maduo2

well It's a double sided coin really..
sure, if they make it easier to get then alot more people will have it.. but it will also bring some money back into the fishing community..

imagine fish prices going up 10 fold overnight.
That will surely help any fisher out, pro or newbie.

besides, 500 of each fish wouldn't be THAT easy to get wink
imagine trying to get 500 black rosque off the fly.. I'm sure some of us might have exactly 500 of each fish, but I don't think that each and every fisher here has that many of each type.

I guess maybe to lengthen the idea though, have something like a "certificate" to anyone that qualifies in the top 50 for fishing on any specific month in any lake or overall.. though, People would complain about an item that they cannot get simply because they don't have the time.

I still think 500 of each would be enough to be honest..
I mean.. that's 13,500 fish total.. for a single rod..

I dunno, I was always of the opinion that it should take months of work to get. After all, it was originally intended to be a prize for a quest nearly as epic as backwings. We all know just how far that has come, which isn't very. The next best thing to me would be something that you couldn't just buy your way to. I'm not just thinking about Fishers, but I'm thinking of them first and foremost.

Take for example, rares. If you follow rare questing, or ever really have, you know that exchangers try to stick their nose in it all the time, trying to jack prices or even just doing it unintentionally by throwing gold around without learning the prices despite the irony of such a move. If the Angelic Rod were available via a mere 500 of each fish, exchangers could buy them up (Killing supply since the fish would be deleted when getting the rod) and then try to control Angelic Rod prices. Sure, they'd probably try it regardless of how the thing is earned if it's not soulbound (I so hope it isn't), but if it required fishing in some capacity then it would be first and foremost the Fishers who controlled it, as I personally feel it should be if anyone is to control any prices.

But back more on the track of the fish, well, 13.5k isn't that much from a trophy fisher standpoint. Gold takes typically 20k+ fish. That means people are doing the fish total in a single month in some cases, and if they were using A bait they'd probably meet the requirements for the smalls AND mediums, if not the larges unless they did only one lake. Sure, that's also the more hardcore end, but the rod WAS supposed to be something epic. An SRP that can cast 100ft? Hell yeah that's epic. It's like, the Durem dream rod.

ruby - surprised Trophies show up now too? I hadn't even thought of that. It makes sense considering they fixed it for everything, but that's just awesome. As for the Angelic Rod for a trophy, yeah, that'd be kind of unfair. It would also make it "too easy" to many. Bronze isn't exactly a huge accomplishment in say, Bass'ken some months.

[Idfection]

rubyaileen

so just to make convo..am wondering others thoughts on trophies actually showing in the fishing rooms....I personally like it.

as for the a-rod discussion..at one time I had thought it should be a reward for getting a trophy..but then thought that could be unfair.

I like the idea of the angelic rod being obtained only if you at least realize there is a fishing competition. There are Gaians who fish and don't even know about the leader boards. But I also agree that only getting one with a trophy would be kind of unfair.

Maybe like this; A certain amount of each fish, like the above posters were saying, plus 3 unique certificates. You get one soulbound certificate for each lake you finish in the top 50. That way you have to work for it, but it isn't impossible.
It has some nice benefits, too. New fishers will be more likely to become familiar with the leader boards, and there would also hopfully be more competition for even the low slots of the top 50.
Countless times the bottom 50 in Durem hardly fished at all. By getting certificates this way, hopefully the whole 50 will be filled with people competing.

[gutszi wrongfully banned]

Gaidin

But back more on the track of the fish, well, 13.5k isn't that much from a trophy fisher standpoint. Gold takes typically 20k+ fish.

my stats

Number Times Fished 939
Total Fish 15900
Total Score 187560
Total Time Fishing 9d 17h 47m 27s

and thats a gold and bronze at bassken xp .... and this month with Im above 10k

[Gaidin]

gutszi wrongfully banned

Gaidin

But back more on the track of the fish, well, 13.5k isn't that much from a trophy fisher standpoint. Gold takes typically 20k+ fish.

my stats

Number Times Fished 939
Total Fish 15900
Total Score 187560
Total Time Fishing 9d 17h 47m 27s

and thats a gold and bronze at bassken xp .... and this month with Im above 10k

Your score wasn't exactly super high for that gold >.< Even in say, the past 5 months worth of score, most gold placings were getting 15k+ fish. There were some notable exceptions, but few, and almost every single one had over 10k fish. That's also why, as it shows in my quote, I used "typically". That is, it's closer to the norm to get 20k fish than 7.5k fish going for a Gold.

[gutszi wrongfully banned]

I know I was just pointing out some months are worse than others... just happened to be 2 really glitched months. I also hope that the upgrade is done simular are badges in zOMG.... like 15k fish for basic and 150k for upgrade.

[Maduo2]

Gaidin

Maduo2

well It's a double sided coin really..
sure, if they make it easier to get then alot more people will have it.. but it will also bring some money back into the fishing community..

imagine fish prices going up 10 fold overnight.
That will surely help any fisher out, pro or newbie.

besides, 500 of each fish wouldn't be THAT easy to get wink
imagine trying to get 500 black rosque off the fly.. I'm sure some of us might have exactly 500 of each fish, but I don't think that each and every fisher here has that many of each type.

I guess maybe to lengthen the idea though, have something like a "certificate" to anyone that qualifies in the top 50 for fishing on any specific month in any lake or overall.. though, People would complain about an item that they cannot get simply because they don't have the time.

I still think 500 of each would be enough to be honest..
I mean.. that's 13,500 fish total.. for a single rod..

I dunno, I was always of the opinion that it should take months of work to get. After all, it was originally intended to be a prize for a quest nearly as epic as backwings. We all know just how far that has come, which isn't very. The next best thing to me would be something that you couldn't just buy your way to. I'm not just thinking about Fishers, but I'm thinking of them first and foremost.

Take for example, rares. If you follow rare questing, or ever really have, you know that exchangers try to stick their nose in it all the time, trying to jack prices or even just doing it unintentionally by throwing gold around without learning the prices despite the irony of such a move. If the Angelic Rod were available via a mere 500 of each fish, exchangers could buy them up (Killing supply since the fish would be deleted when getting the rod) and then try to control Angelic Rod prices. Sure, they'd probably try it regardless of how the thing is earned if it's not soulbound (I so hope it isn't), but if it required fishing in some capacity then it would be first and foremost the Fishers who controlled it, as I personally feel it should be if anyone is to control any prices.

But back more on the track of the fish, well, 13.5k isn't that much from a trophy fisher standpoint. Gold takes typically 20k+ fish. That means people are doing the fish total in a single month in some cases, and if they were using A bait they'd probably meet the requirements for the smalls AND mediums, if not the larges unless they did only one lake. Sure, that's also the more hardcore end, but the rod WAS supposed to be something epic. An SRP that can cast 100ft? Hell yeah that's epic. It's like, the Durem dream rod.

ruby - surprised Trophies show up now too? I hadn't even thought of that. It makes sense considering they fixed it for everything, but that's just awesome. As for the Angelic Rod for a trophy, yeah, that'd be kind of unfair. It would also make it "too easy" to many. Bronze isn't exactly a huge accomplishment in say, Bass'ken some months.

well gidi, regardless of how it's done, venders are going to abuse it, and jack up the prices.
that is something that is going to be unavoidable.

I know venders stick their nose in rares all the time, but what you're suggesting isn't any different, to be truthfully honest. You're suggesting that the angelic rod have "something" to do with fishing.. all that means is that the venders need to get "something" and then sell it, jack up the prices, and resell it again.

I think that on an overall scale, if the items were common, like the fish we are all used to catching, were to be used in mass quantities, that the venders would at least have trouble getting them after a while, seeing as they themselves will not be fishing, but instead buying the fish from the fishers or those who have no use for the fish (newbies).

if you truly wanted it to be "epic rare" why not just send a mail to lanzer asking him to make it a RIG stare

besides that.. you pretty much would need A bait for obtaining the large fish for the lakes.. and that would come to quite a hefty amount. getting 500 green striper, 500 blue striper, and 500 gray striper would not be an easy task as it would just devour your gold stash.

I'm just going to say this once again though, because you seem fixated on the topic. Exchangers, as you call them, ARE going to screw with the prices of the angelic rod, regardless. No matter what it costs or what the circumstances are, they will screw with it.
they'll get newbs, kiddie scripters, etc etc etc, to do all their dirty work, then they will profit by vending. That is why trophies were made soul bound in the first place, correct?

I believe that mass amounts of fish is the way to go. there can't be THAT many fish on the market.. logic states that if such a system was put in, the market would dry extremely rapidly and fish prizes would soar through the roof. Venders would then buy fish and resell them at higher prices. In this manner, instead of the venders feeding off of the fishers, the fishers could feed off the venders.

gutszi wrongfully banned

I know I was just pointing out some months are worse than others... just happened to be 2 really glitched months. I also hope that the upgrade is done simular are badges in zOMG.... like 15k fish for basic and 150k for upgrade.

ROFL! 150k fish! evil gutszi is still evil I see =p
long time no see cool

[Gaidin]

Maduo2

well gidi, regardless of how it's done, venders are going to abuse it, and jack up the prices.
that is something that is going to be unavoidable.

I know venders stick their nose in rares all the time, but what you're suggesting isn't any different, to be truthfully honest. You're suggesting that the angelic rod have "something" to do with fishing.. all that means is that the venders need to get "something" and then sell it, jack up the prices, and resell it again.

I think that on an overall scale, if the items were common, like the fish we are all used to catching, were to be used in mass quantities, that the venders would at least have trouble getting them after a while, seeing as they themselves will not be fishing, but instead buying the fish from the fishers or those who have no use for the fish (newbies).

if you truly wanted it to be "epic rare" why not just send a mail to lanzer asking him to make it a RIG stare

besides that.. you pretty much would need A bait for obtaining the large fish for the lakes.. and that would come to quite a hefty amount. getting 500 green striper, 500 blue striper, and 500 gray striper would not be an easy task as it would just devour your gold stash.

I'm just going to say this once again though, because you seem fixated on the topic. Exchangers, as you call them, ARE going to screw with the prices of the angelic rod, regardless. No matter what it costs or what the circumstances are, they will screw with it.
they'll get newbs, kiddie scripters, etc etc etc, to do all their dirty work, then they will profit by vending. That is why trophies were made soul bound in the first place, correct?

I believe that mass amounts of fish is the way to go. there can't be THAT many fish on the market.. logic states that if such a system was put in, the market would dry extremely rapidly and fish prizes would soar through the roof. Venders would then buy fish and resell them at higher prices. In this manner, instead of the venders feeding off of the fishers, the fishers could feed off the venders.

I'm fully aware that exchangers are going to try to mess with it no matter what as long as it's tradeable. This is why I'd think it should be based on actual fishing, not just fish themselves. I think that's the part you missed in my post, because you keep going back to how exchangers will essentially buy the rod from the start, which is not how I'd have it able to happen were I making the grant. If you HAVE to fish to get it, then Fishers first and foremost decide what happens with the rod, and if the requirements are hefty, then newbs and bots won't get the rod. Newbs wouldn't because they don't fish enough, and bots 'cause they'd get banned before they reached the requirements, assuming they were set well enough.

That said, I think you have my viewpoint wrong. I'm not wanting it to be epic rare, I'm wanting it to require "epic" EFFORT. There's a very, very big difference between something being rare due to stupid odds (see: RIGs, rare fish) and being rare because it takes time and effort to obtain (Like say, a fish item requiring 300+ larges). Epic effort means the item is only as rare as the people willing to devote themselves to getting it. Those that think it's worthwhile, or will be doing the requirements anyway will get it, those that don't, don't.

Trophies were made soulbound because they are achievement items. Much like how Gaia decided that the Oni Set should be soulbound as a nod to "one's failure being one's own", the trophies were soulbound because Gaia decided that we shouldn't be able to sell those particular achievements, that they should stay with the person who earned them. I still disagree with that actually, even if I'd never sell any of my trophies. I still think people should have the option to sell them, so that others who don't have the time can enjoy a shiny trophy equip item. But that's neither here nor there in terms of the discussion.

All that said, I'm not saying a bunch of every fish is a BAD way to go about getting the rod either. I'm just saying I'd prefer it to be something you can't just buy straight off. Sure, fish would still mean fishing was critical to the obtaining of the rod, but it would also allow the rod to essentially be bought without ever loading a game. In the end, we're just tossing around ideas anyway. I assume we'll find out soon enough how it's obtained.

[gutszi wrongfully banned]

Maduo2

ROFL! 150k fish! evil gutszi is still evil I see =p
long time no see cool

hey, Im only here for the update ninja ....well seriously if the stats on the rod I remember from back when are true... then 15k fish caught for a SRP that can cast 90-100ft is worth it cause the rods not anything special... and then getting the extra wide lines should be a super feat xp

[Maduo2]

Gaidin

Maduo2

well gidi, regardless of how it's done, venders are going to abuse it, and jack up the prices.
that is something that is going to be unavoidable.

I know venders stick their nose in rares all the time, but what you're suggesting isn't any different, to be truthfully honest. You're suggesting that the angelic rod have "something" to do with fishing.. all that means is that the venders need to get "something" and then sell it, jack up the prices, and resell it again.

I think that on an overall scale, if the items were common, like the fish we are all used to catching, were to be used in mass quantities, that the venders would at least have trouble getting them after a while, seeing as they themselves will not be fishing, but instead buying the fish from the fishers or those who have no use for the fish (newbies).

if you truly wanted it to be "epic rare" why not just send a mail to lanzer asking him to make it a RIG stare

besides that.. you pretty much would need A bait for obtaining the large fish for the lakes.. and that would come to quite a hefty amount. getting 500 green striper, 500 blue striper, and 500 gray striper would not be an easy task as it would just devour your gold stash.

I'm just going to say this once again though, because you seem fixated on the topic. Exchangers, as you call them, ARE going to screw with the prices of the angelic rod, regardless. No matter what it costs or what the circumstances are, they will screw with it.
they'll get newbs, kiddie scripters, etc etc etc, to do all their dirty work, then they will profit by vending. That is why trophies were made soul bound in the first place, correct?

I believe that mass amounts of fish is the way to go. there can't be THAT many fish on the market.. logic states that if such a system was put in, the market would dry extremely rapidly and fish prizes would soar through the roof. Venders would then buy fish and resell them at higher prices. In this manner, instead of the venders feeding off of the fishers, the fishers could feed off the venders.

I'm fully aware that exchangers are going to try to mess with it no matter what as long as it's tradeable. This is why I'd think it should be based on actual fishing, not just fish themselves. I think that's the part you missed in my post, because you keep going back to how exchangers will essentially buy the rod from the start, which is not how I'd have it able to happen were I making the grant. If you HAVE to fish to get it, then Fishers first and foremost decide what happens with the rod, and if the requirements are hefty, then newbs and bots won't get the rod. Newbs wouldn't because they don't fish enough, and bots 'cause they'd get banned before they reached the requirements, assuming they were set well enough.

That said, I think you have my viewpoint wrong. I'm not wanting it to be epic rare, I'm wanting it to require "epic" EFFORT. There's a very, very big difference between something being rare due to stupid odds (see: RIGs, rare fish) and being rare because it takes time and effort to obtain (Like say, a fish item requiring 300+ larges). Epic effort means the item is only as rare as the people willing to devote themselves to getting it. Those that think it's worthwhile, or will be doing the requirements anyway will get it, those that don't, don't.

Trophies were made soulbound because they are achievement items. Much like how Gaia decided that the Oni Set should be soulbound as a nod to "one's failure being one's own", the trophies were soulbound because Gaia decided that we shouldn't be able to sell those particular achievements, that they should stay with the person who earned them. I still disagree with that actually, even if I'd never sell any of my trophies. I still think people should have the option to sell them, so that others who don't have the time can enjoy a shiny trophy equip item. But that's neither here nor there in terms of the discussion.

All that said, I'm not saying a bunch of every fish is a BAD way to go about getting the rod either. I'm just saying I'd prefer it to be something you can't just buy straight off. Sure, fish would still mean fishing was critical to the obtaining of the rod, but it would also allow the rod to essentially be bought without ever loading a game. In the end, we're just tossing around ideas anyway. I assume we'll find out soon enough how it's obtained.

well, it's kinda a moot point regardless.. because as you've said, you would like the angelic rod to NOT be soul bound.. which means it would be able to be bought... and there is NO doubt in my mind that venders are perched on their chairs waiting for it to drop into the game so they can scam any newbie they come across for the items required to get it in order to sell it for as much as humanly possible.

I never missed your point, but I am thinking of the after-effects of what you're trying to say. you're essentially saying you want a "rare" item that is hard to get for non-fishers.. but the thing you're missing is that non-fishers will see this "super rare" item that they don't have and will go nutz getting it and jacking up the prices like crazy. It's just a recipe for disaster IMO. That's why I say the rod should be newbie accessible, but at a steep cost. look at the paper bag face for example. paper bags can only be obtained through towns but you need alot of them for the hat. you don't see too many venders bothering to give their time of day with the paper bag, even when it was new way back in the day. why? because it was an easy to get item that just required time to get. The same could be said of fishing. If the items are easy enough to get (fish) then the venders won't see it as much of an investment and will turn back to their RIGS and MC's. The prices will stabalize after that and there will be little to no inflation.

One thing I don't agree with you on is that only fishers should be able to get the angelic rod. Speaking from an ex-fisher standpoint, I will probably never trophy run again, but I still would like an angelic rod for my occasional fishing trip now and then. Does this mean because I simply don't have the time to do a trophy run (or even get in the top 50) that I shouldn't be able to get an angelic rod?

I see no problem with a quest, or even some type of trivia, but, regardless of what you do, If you make it REQUIRE additional fishing, then you're ousting people, possibly good, well intentioned people, for absolutely no reason other than wanting less people to have it.

And lets truly face the facts here..If these were the conditions of getting the angelic rod, then most of the people who would be getting it would not even need it in the first place. It would be like giving superman a nuclear warhead. He's already superman, he doesn't need any extra help defeating the bad guy.

Thus I have come to one and only one logical conclusion. The angelic rod must never touch gaian soil! It shall remain a myth for all eternity =)

[/rantings]

[Gaidin]

Maduo2

well, it's kinda a moot point regardless.. because as you've said, you would like the angelic rod to NOT be soul bound.. which means it would be able to be bought... and there is NO doubt in my mind that venders are perched on their chairs waiting for it to drop into the game so they can scam any newbie they come across for the items required to get it in order to sell it for as much as humanly possible.

I never missed your point, but I am thinking of the after-effects of what you're trying to say. you're essentially saying you want a "rare" item that is hard to get for non-fishers.. but the thing you're missing is that non-fishers will see this "super rare" item that they don't have and will go nutz getting it and jacking up the prices like crazy. It's just a recipe for disaster IMO. That's why I say the rod should be newbie accessible, but at a steep cost. look at the paper bag face for example. paper bags can only be obtained through towns but you need alot of them for the hat. you don't see too many venders bothering to give their time of day with the paper bag, even when it was new way back in the day. why? because it was an easy to get item that just required time to get. The same could be said of fishing. If the items are easy enough to get (fish) then the venders won't see it as much of an investment and will turn back to their RIGS and MC's. The prices will stabalize after that and there will be little to no inflation.

One thing I don't agree with you on is that only fishers should be able to get the angelic rod. Speaking from an ex-fisher standpoint, I will probably never trophy run again, but I still would like an angelic rod for my occasional fishing trip now and then. Does this mean because I simply don't have the time to do a trophy run (or even get in the top 50) that I shouldn't be able to get an angelic rod?

I see no problem with a quest, or even some type of trivia, but, regardless of what you do, If you make it REQUIRE additional fishing, then you're ousting people, possibly good, well intentioned people, for absolutely no reason other than wanting less people to have it.

And lets truly face the facts here..If these were the conditions of getting the angelic rod, then most of the people who would be getting it would not even need it in the first place. It would be like giving superman a nuclear warhead. He's already superman, he doesn't need any extra help defeating the bad guy.

Thus I have come to one and only one logical conclusion. The angelic rod must never touch gaian soil! It shall remain a myth for all eternity =)

[/rantings]

Yes, I did say I'd prefer it to be tradeable. And yes, this means that eventually, even if you couldn't buy the rod straight up, exchangers would get it. But it would also mean that the fishers set the price and decide whether or not they even want to put it out there. Even in this first paragraph of yours, I still see you assuming that it will be an exchange of some sort. If that's the case, then yes, exchangers will try to control it, and to some degree succeed at it. If it's NOT however, and they can't just buy it, then what? If Logan made you CATCH 500 of each fish (Like say, you had to have those numbers on your stats page), then what? Exchangers can't buy that, and newbies can't sell it to them. The only people who could get it are people who would know enough to make an educated decision as to whether or not to sell (Which touches on your superman point, I'll get to that later).

My point isn't quite that. I want a challenge item, not a rare one. I fully expect and hope that eventually seeing an Angelic Rod becomes known not solely as a bot spotter, but as a way to tell an experienced Fisher generally speaking. I'm still wondering where your disaster comes in if the item isn't an exchange. Your theory seems based on the preface that it would come from something that can be bought. If that's true, then yes, I agree there'd be "disaster" regardless of the numbers required. That's why I'd argue for a method that can't be bought. The only way it wouldn't be "disastrous" is if the requirements were so low that price manipulation were not possible because the supply was too high-- and that would defeat the purpose of the Angelic Rod being special. So I guess I'll ask you straight how: How do you think the rod would be manipulated if it was granted based on something that was impossible to buy?

For your fourth paragraph: This shows me you really don't quite get my reason after all. I don't simply want it to be rare, I want it to be earned. Best case scenario, past fishing would be taken into account. People who then fished a lot prior could earn it straight up at release, others could work for it if they hadn't reached the requirements. Yes, people will be excluded, and yes, that sucks. However, if the rod is supposed to be special, it makes sense that it would be something that you can't just buy for 100k and upgrade for another 150k gold or something.

Regarding superman... Yes, exactly. But remember the rods stats, shall we? The normal form is an SRP that casts 100ft. We already have a rod that casts 100ft, and we already have a rod that has the lines of the SRP-- The DRP and SRP respectively. That part of the rod is nothing new, it's just added convenience. Likewise, the widening of the lines for the upgraded form is also just a convenience. As long as none of the new fish are so difficult that it actually REQUIRES the ARP in the hands of the most skilled fishers, the Angelic is just going to be a luxury item. At the same time though, I think such a thing should be earned. I don't think a rod that is literally the best all around should be something you can just up and buy from Logan straight off. Right now every rod has distinct pros and cons. Being able to buy a rod that ousts them all and bypasses all of that pretty much nullifies the original 4/8 rods from the start.

I get that we seem to have different views on how it should come out, and that's fine. Everyone is different. I just happen to think that making SOMETHING big and special as a reward for actually playing the game is a good idea. Everything that currently exists save trophies in Fishing can be bought, and even trophies have the requirement of X time in Y timeframe, which is less a prize for effort over time and more a prize for having enough time in a month.

[LordVada]

its nice to know that some things never change, like Gidi's walls of text >.>

Any update on the update? As in, updated release date or anything?

[Idfection]

Gaidin

Right now every rod has distinct pros and cons. Being able to buy a rod that ousts them all and bypasses all of that pretty much nullifies the original 4/8 rods from the start.

The more you talk about this, the more I feel I'm going to be disappointed. I really fear something like a 99 Cash rod, with a 299 Upgrade price. I seriously feel like we might see the end of the other rod's use.

I do have one nitpick with your idea. If, when you get say 100k fish caught total, Logan gives you an Angelic Rod, does that mean that each account can only ever get one through that method?

[Maduo2]

Gaidin

Maduo2

well, it's kinda a moot point regardless.. because as you've said, you would like the angelic rod to NOT be soul bound.. which means it would be able to be bought... and there is NO doubt in my mind that venders are perched on their chairs waiting for it to drop into the game so they can scam any newbie they come across for the items required to get it in order to sell it for as much as humanly possible.

I never missed your point, but I am thinking of the after-effects of what you're trying to say. you're essentially saying you want a "rare" item that is hard to get for non-fishers.. but the thing you're missing is that non-fishers will see this "super rare" item that they don't have and will go nutz getting it and jacking up the prices like crazy. It's just a recipe for disaster IMO. That's why I say the rod should be newbie accessible, but at a steep cost. look at the paper bag face for example. paper bags can only be obtained through towns but you need alot of them for the hat. you don't see too many venders bothering to give their time of day with the paper bag, even when it was new way back in the day. why? because it was an easy to get item that just required time to get. The same could be said of fishing. If the items are easy enough to get (fish) then the venders won't see it as much of an investment and will turn back to their RIGS and MC's. The prices will stabalize after that and there will be little to no inflation.

One thing I don't agree with you on is that only fishers should be able to get the angelic rod. Speaking from an ex-fisher standpoint, I will probably never trophy run again, but I still would like an angelic rod for my occasional fishing trip now and then. Does this mean because I simply don't have the time to do a trophy run (or even get in the top 50) that I shouldn't be able to get an angelic rod?

I see no problem with a quest, or even some type of trivia, but, regardless of what you do, If you make it REQUIRE additional fishing, then you're ousting people, possibly good, well intentioned people, for absolutely no reason other than wanting less people to have it.

And lets truly face the facts here..If these were the conditions of getting the angelic rod, then most of the people who would be getting it would not even need it in the first place. It would be like giving superman a nuclear warhead. He's already superman, he doesn't need any extra help defeating the bad guy.

Thus I have come to one and only one logical conclusion. The angelic rod must never touch gaian soil! It shall remain a myth for all eternity =)

[/rantings]

Yes, I did say I'd prefer it to be tradeable. And yes, this means that eventually, even if you couldn't buy the rod straight up, exchangers would get it. But it would also mean that the fishers set the price and decide whether or not they even want to put it out there. Even in this first paragraph of yours, I still see you assuming that it will be an exchange of some sort. If that's the case, then yes, exchangers will try to control it, and to some degree succeed at it. If it's NOT however, and they can't just buy it, then what? If Logan made you CATCH 500 of each fish (Like say, you had to have those numbers on your stats page), then what? Exchangers can't buy that, and newbies can't sell it to them. The only people who could get it are people who would know enough to make an educated decision as to whether or not to sell (Which touches on your superman point, I'll get to that later).

My point isn't quite that. I want a challenge item, not a rare one. I fully expect and hope that eventually seeing an Angelic Rod becomes known not solely as a bot spotter, but as a way to tell an experienced Fisher generally speaking. I'm still wondering where your disaster comes in if the item isn't an exchange. Your theory seems based on the preface that it would come from something that can be bought. If that's true, then yes, I agree there'd be "disaster" regardless of the numbers required. That's why I'd argue for a method that can't be bought. The only way it wouldn't be "disastrous" is if the requirements were so low that price manipulation were not possible because the supply was too high-- and that would defeat the purpose of the Angelic Rod being special. So I guess I'll ask you straight how: How do you think the rod would be manipulated if it was granted based on something that was impossible to buy?

For your fourth paragraph: This shows me you really don't quite get my reason after all. I don't simply want it to be rare, I want it to be earned. Best case scenario, past fishing would be taken into account. People who then fished a lot prior could earn it straight up at release, others could work for it if they hadn't reached the requirements. Yes, people will be excluded, and yes, that sucks. However, if the rod is supposed to be special, it makes sense that it would be something that you can't just buy for 100k and upgrade for another 150k gold or something.

Regarding superman... Yes, exactly. But remember the rods stats, shall we? The normal form is an SRP that casts 100ft. We already have a rod that casts 100ft, and we already have a rod that has the lines of the SRP-- The DRP and SRP respectively. That part of the rod is nothing new, it's just added convenience. Likewise, the widening of the lines for the upgraded form is also just a convenience. As long as none of the new fish are so difficult that it actually REQUIRES the ARP in the hands of the most skilled fishers, the Angelic is just going to be a luxury item. At the same time though, I think such a thing should be earned. I don't think a rod that is literally the best all around should be something you can just up and buy from Logan straight off. Right now every rod has distinct pros and cons. Being able to buy a rod that ousts them all and bypasses all of that pretty much nullifies the original 4/8 rods from the start.

I get that we seem to have different views on how it should come out, and that's fine. Everyone is different. I just happen to think that making SOMETHING big and special as a reward for actually playing the game is a good idea. Everything that currently exists save trophies in Fishing can be bought, and even trophies have the requirement of X time in Y timeframe, which is less a prize for effort over time and more a prize for having enough time in a month.

lol, but your 3rd paragraph is mistaken =)

You see, I'm already assuming 2 possible outcomes (most likely outcomes) for this rod and trying to persuade the general tone of gaia into the direction of non-conformation. As we all know, the angelic rod, if it's ever release, is either going to be 1 of 2 situations.

A) it will be a "rare" rod that will be sold at logan's shop for ~50k gold.
or
B) it will be a "quest" rod that will be soul bound.

If it's a quest rod, it probably won't be based on past experiences, but if it is, then more than 1 person will be disappointed. I know there are several people around here that could easily be defined as good, well deserving fishers, yet, like me, they have changed their accounts from time to time and have not touched fishing on said new accounts. I mean.. heck, look at the past instances of this they've done, making trophies soul bound. all my trophies are on a mule account right now, for me, but the game doesn't recognize this account or my original as me simply because they are "soul bound".
I can only imagine the resentment towards gaia if the same thing occured for angelic fishing rods..
(Player A: oh, wdf, my old account that was hacked has an angelic fishing rod? WDF GAIA~!!!) and so on, and so on... stuff like that.


as for your coupon idea of "CATCHING 500 FISH", that one is easy.. they come out with better bots =p
you keep trying to think up ways to avoid it becoming an issue with the venders, but I keep saying there is no avoiding it, so why not make it just a lesser impact for them? I mean, 500 of each would still be hard for a newbie.. the venders are SOMEHOW going to get their hands on it and jack up the price.. so why not ride along with it and make some profit along the way?
As long as X amount of fish are used in the creation (even 100) then it's a big win for the fishers as the price of fish will rise.

besides... I hate to disappoint you, but the angelic rod might not even be worth that much...

I mean.. it only has to cost a tiny bit more than the distance and strength combined...

[Erynnis_Tristis]

Idfection

Gaidin

Right now every rod has distinct pros and cons. Being able to buy a rod that ousts them all and bypasses all of that pretty much nullifies the original 4/8 rods from the start.

The more you talk about this, the more I feel I'm going to be disappointed. I really fear something like a 99 Cash rod, with a 299 Upgrade price. I seriously feel like we might see the end of the other rod's use.

I do have one nitpick with your idea. If, when you get say 100k fish caught total, Logan gives you an Angelic Rod, does that mean that each account can only ever get one through that method?

Would that be a bad thing?

If the Angelic Rod was a one time only grant per account, with an 'epic effort' required to earn the grant, then the grantee would have to choose whether to keep or sell, and could only obtain another after putting in the same 'epic effort' again on a new account. It would help to limit the exploitability in the market.

It works for zOMG items like the EB recipes and event items that are one time only grants, as no one can 'have their cake and eat it too'. While zOMG has certain requirements like rings and CL levels and fishing doesn't, depending on what the fishing based requirement is, it could work in the same way as a limiting factor preventing exploitation.

[Idfection]

Erynnis_Tristis

Would that be a bad thing?

After hearing your argument... no. I think, given tons of ways they could release the Rod, I am now convinced this would be the method I would most prefer.