Oh Jesus ******** Christ.

[HMS Thunder Child]

black_wing_angel

HMS Thunder Child

black_wing_angel

HMS Thunder Child

CuAnnan

No. He compared rapists to mindless animals.
You just compared all men to rapists.
Which I am appalled by, but not surprised by.


You said it once, not a million times. Amid multiple instances of stating what, in specific detail, your problems with the product were.
Let's add "bare-faced liar" to the list of charges against you, shall we?


Dudes don't rape.
That's what we do.

Dude rapists are dudes. Dude rapists are mindless animals. Dudes are mindless animals. Transitive property again. I don't like it when people say that stuff because a) it reduces responsibility on the guilty party because "they don't have human reasoning capacity" which is bull, b) it allows members of the group to distance themselves from responsibility by saying they are not actually from the group, and c) because it's a rather harsh and untrue indictment against men.

I said it at least twice, but yes, I'm a liar because they apparently don't have hyperbole in Ireland anymore.

Except they do. Not all dudes, but even the ones who don't make excuses for the ones who do, so that's a problem, too. Dudes could stop defending rapists. Big step, easy step. Wish I didn't have to spell it out for people.

Black muggers are black. Black muggers are criminals. Blacks are criminals.

See how that logic fails? You can't reasonably lump all members of a broad group together, and apply the faults of the few onto the many. That's a Fox News level fail.

And can you actually prove that all, or even the majority of men "make excuses" for criminals? Because I'm pretty sure we don't. Being a 28 year veteran of the team, I think I would've gotten that memo...

Fine, whatever, it was a stupid analogy I made, and I rescind it. But the letter points afterward stand. It's pointless to say [x] aren't rapists, MONSTERS are rapists. People are monsters. Distancing yourself and your group from a crime counts as apologizing for it. Dudes have a problem with rape. Even if most don't. The group, being in most positions of judicial power, are able to (but not willing) to change things to improve the situation. And so forth.

Ok, let's make this simple. Why don't you go ahead and tell us men how exactly we're supposed to be able to do that. What exactly do you believe it is that we can do, but simply "won't"?

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And dude, I've heard you do it.

You've heard whatever you wanted to hear. Not whatever was actually said.

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Part of the problem is that people don't think they're making excuses when they are. Thing about most behaviors is that people don't have to know they're doing it to do it. If someone asks what a victim was wearing, that's making excuses. So on and so forth.

I don't see that as making excuses for criminals, at all. It's more looking for ways to proactively prevent the issue, in the future. Learning and improving, as businessmen say.

Just like how, some 8 or 9 years ago, my dad's house got broken into, and some s**t stolen from it. My first question (as I've known this guy for a long enough time...) was "did you lock the door?" No, he didn't. He never does. Mostly because he lives in an almost remote location so far off the grid, that it's amazing he even gets electricity. But someone stumbled upon his place, and apparently got the idea to see if he had anything valuable. And he didn't exactly make it difficult for them. My response? "Well, I recommend you start locking up, in the future."

Sure, maybe it can be seen as victim blaming, in some ways. I don't deny that. But at the end of the day, everyone has a certain amount of personal responsibility to take preventative measures against dangers to themselves. Like wearing a seatbelt, keeping a fire extinguisher in the kitchen, locking your doors, not wandering into bad neighborhoods if at all avoidable, and not making yourself a shiny target for humanity's b*****d children. Because let's face facts. People suck, and the world is neither kind, nor fair. It doesn't mean it's your fault when something bad happens. It's not. It's the fault of whoever victimized you. Solely. Because they chose to exploit you in some fashion. But you still need to do whatever you can to reduce your susceptibility to such exploitation, because we don't live in a Utopian society.

Stop making rape jokes, stop taking advantage of drunk women, stop victim blaming. Attend classes that teach about consent. That's a big one, and according to someone's link in this thread, it has been substantively proven to lower rape rates. Mostly because people think rape is dragging people into an alley and so forth, when rape can be as simple as ignoring, assuming, or coercing consent. Note that everyone would benefit from a better understanding of consent for both sides of the coin.

And you hear what you want to hear. This is where education comes in. Most people who say rapist apologistics don't think they're saying rapist apologistics. They are.

And how does that help with rape victims? It's not like clothes are armor. Rapists take advantage of people wearing full frickin' parkas, so clothes don't matter. And besides, it doesn't matter if your door is locked or not, it's still treated as a crime by police.

And police was who I was addressing when I made the analogy you misunderstood in that other post. If people spend so much time and effort securing their houses but the police don't do their part, then the people are right to be mad at the police, yes? I don't have a problem with people taking steps to protect themselves. I have a problem with people expecting that to be the only response when the system can do so much more.

And PS: Equating dudes with penises is cissexist, and while that's popular in a few branches of feminism, it is not feminist at all. I'm a chick, gots a p***s.

[The20]

CuAnnan

HMS Thunder Child

Just that it's one more thing women can do and we're still waiting to hear about what dudes can do.

Dudes don't rape.
That's what we do.

It's kinda funny if you think about it. When it comes to reproductive rights dudes are told their choice is not to have sex and that's it. Don't even try to argue about having so much as an opinion about abortion or anything, just stay the ******** out of womens reproductive rights (pun intended). But when it comes to rape we're suddenly supposed to protect all women and involve ourselves with their affairs.
Talk about double standards ...

[The20]

HMS Thunder Child

People don't mind another reactive solution but the critique is that we have another reactive solution but yet still no proactive solutions on the horizon.

Well, what do you suggest we do? There simply is no (practical) proactive solution.

[HMS Thunder Child]

The20

HMS Thunder Child

People don't mind another reactive solution but the critique is that we have another reactive solution but yet still no proactive solutions on the horizon.

Well, what do you suggest we do? There simply is no (practical) proactive solution.

Education.

[R.I.P.resurrection]

HMS Thunder Child

The20

HMS Thunder Child

People don't mind another reactive solution but the critique is that we have another reactive solution but yet still no proactive solutions on the horizon.

Well, what do you suggest we do? There simply is no (practical) proactive solution.

Education.

education is a subjective tool; it increases the percent-chance possibility that more people will get the message that rape is wrong, but then again being educated and raised in model environments has never stopped ******** up people from being ******** up.

Education is a good start, and one of the best solutions, but it is far from an absolute measure.

[black_wing_angel]

HMS Thunderchild

Stop making rape jokes,

I don't know many who do.

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stop taking advantage of drunk women,

I don't know any who do.

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stop victim blaming.

I call it like I see it. And the term "victim blaming" is very loosely defined. To the point of even comments made regarding hindsight, such as, "Yeah....you probably shouldn't have been in such a rough neighborhood, alone..." is seen as "victim blaming". Basically, the term "victim blaming" is little more than a term used vitriolically by feminists to remove any and all traces of personal responsibility from women. At this point, if a woman gets into an accident, because she barreled through the red light while using her rear view mirror to apply make-up, telling her that she should've been watching the damn road, is "victim blaming".

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Attend classes that teach about consent.

Most of us don't need those. It's pretty well common sense. Just like how I don't need to take a class to tell me not to put the barrel of a loaded gun in my mouth. And I would surmise that the stark majority of those who do rape, would not benefit from the classes, either, since they do it with full intention.

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That's a big one, and according to someone's link in this thread, it has been substantively proven to lower rape rates. Mostly because people think rape is dragging people into an alley and so forth, when rape can be as simple as ignoring, assuming, or coercing consent. Note that everyone would benefit from a better understanding of consent for both sides of the coin.

But you only want men to take that class, right?

Where's the woman's responsibility, in this? Last I checked, it takes 2 to tango...

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And you hear what you want to hear. This is where education comes in. Most people who say rapist apologistics don't think they're saying rapist apologistics. They are.

And how does that help with rape victims? It's not like clothes are armor. Rapists take advantage of people wearing full frickin' parkas, so clothes don't matter. And besides, it doesn't matter if your door is locked or not, it's still treated as a crime by police.

And rape is, as well, is it not?

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And police was who I was addressing when I made the analogy you misunderstood in that other post. If people spend so much time and effort securing their houses but the police don't do their part, then the people are right to be mad at the police, yes?

Depends on what is actually the police's responsibility. It's actually not as cut and dry as you would think. Technically, they don't even have to respond, so far as I'm aware.

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I don't have a problem with people taking steps to protect themselves. I have a problem with people expecting that to be the only response when the system can do so much more.

What system?

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And PS: Equating dudes with penises is cissexist, and while that's popular in a few branches of feminism, it is not feminist at all. I'm a chick, gots a p***s.

Now you're just splitting hairs....