Mandatory Service

[GSK Lives]

Queen of Mercury

A lot of what the troll, who has never stepped foot on a military base much less been through boot camp, said was bullshit.

Let's ask somebody on any given barracks who got Code Red'd and see if they can confirm it...

[GSK Lives]

Queen of Mercury

You don't seem to get that vilifying our military for the things that they may have to do in a time of war is an attack. You can sit there with your chip on your shoulder and look down your nose from your place of perceived moral high ground, but don't, for one second, think I'm going to be pleasant towards someone who says the things you have said. You take for granted the rights and privileges you have, rights and privileges that were paid for by the sweat, blood, and lives of our country's military. By vilifying them you are essentially saying '******** you, I don't care that you died so I could be free, you're a horrible person!'

See, this is why despite my fears and horror at the institutionalized beatdowns that would come from military training, I still do harbor jealousy at them and do wish to be in their place. ********, I admire and am in awe at what soldiers do just on a daily basis. I wish I could do it.

Besides that, this perk ALONE would be worth it. I would love for the ability to look down on every other civilian worm and tell them that I risked my a** for their softer a** and fought for their freedom. They are not allowed to talk back or disagree with me, because I fought for them. It is the certified "I AM better than you, punk" card, and it's impossible to argue with. Who wouldn't want that?!

[Queen of Mercury]

GSK Lives

Queen of Mercury

You don't seem to get that vilifying our military for the things that they may have to do in a time of war is an attack. You can sit there with your chip on your shoulder and look down your nose from your place of perceived moral high ground, but don't, for one second, think I'm going to be pleasant towards someone who says the things you have said. You take for granted the rights and privileges you have, rights and privileges that were paid for by the sweat, blood, and lives of our country's military. By vilifying them you are essentially saying '******** you, I don't care that you died so I could be free, you're a horrible person!'

See, this is why despite my fears and horror at the institutionalized beatdowns that would come from military training, I still do harbor jealousy at them and do wish to be in their place. ********, I admire and am in awe at what soldiers do just on a daily basis. I wish I could do it.

Besides that, this perk ALONE would be worth it. I would love for the ability to look down on every other civilian worm and tell them that I risked my a** for their softer a** and fought for their freedom. They are not allowed to talk back or disagree with me, because I fought for them. It is the certified "I AM better than you, punk" card, and it's impossible to argue with. Who wouldn't want that?!

I'm sorry, troll, did you say something? All I hear is 'blah blah blah' coming from you.

[from blue to]

Queen of Mercury

GSK Lives

Queen of Mercury

You don't seem to get that vilifying our military for the things that they may have to do in a time of war is an attack. You can sit there with your chip on your shoulder and look down your nose from your place of perceived moral high ground, but don't, for one second, think I'm going to be pleasant towards someone who says the things you have said. You take for granted the rights and privileges you have, rights and privileges that were paid for by the sweat, blood, and lives of our country's military. By vilifying them you are essentially saying '******** you, I don't care that you died so I could be free, you're a horrible person!'

See, this is why despite my fears and horror at the institutionalized beatdowns that would come from military training, I still do harbor jealousy at them and do wish to be in their place. ********, I admire and am in awe at what soldiers do just on a daily basis. I wish I could do it.

Besides that, this perk ALONE would be worth it. I would love for the ability to look down on every other civilian worm and tell them that I risked my a** for their softer a** and fought for their freedom. They are not allowed to talk back or disagree with me, because I fought for them. It is the certified "I AM better than you, punk" card, and it's impossible to argue with. Who wouldn't want that?!

I'm sorry, troll, did you say something? All I hear is 'blah blah blah' coming from you.

It would have sounded more intelligent had it actually said "blah blah blah."

[GSK Lives]

Queen of Mercury

GSK Lives

Queen of Mercury

You don't seem to get that vilifying our military for the things that they may have to do in a time of war is an attack. You can sit there with your chip on your shoulder and look down your nose from your place of perceived moral high ground, but don't, for one second, think I'm going to be pleasant towards someone who says the things you have said. You take for granted the rights and privileges you have, rights and privileges that were paid for by the sweat, blood, and lives of our country's military. By vilifying them you are essentially saying '******** you, I don't care that you died so I could be free, you're a horrible person!'

See, this is why despite my fears and horror at the institutionalized beatdowns that would come from military training, I still do harbor jealousy at them and do wish to be in their place. ********, I admire and am in awe at what soldiers do just on a daily basis. I wish I could do it.

Besides that, this perk ALONE would be worth it. I would love for the ability to look down on every other civilian worm and tell them that I risked my a** for their softer a** and fought for their freedom. They are not allowed to talk back or disagree with me, because I fought for them. It is the certified "I AM better than you, punk" card, and it's impossible to argue with. Who wouldn't want that?!

I'm sorry, troll, did you say something? All I hear is 'blah blah blah' coming from you.

Wellp, you missed quite a lot then. My point was that you should be PROUD of this fact. I never said any of it was a bad thing except for my own individual hide, which I know is insignificant.

[GSK Lives]

from blue to

Queen of Mercury

GSK Lives

Queen of Mercury

You don't seem to get that vilifying our military for the things that they may have to do in a time of war is an attack. You can sit there with your chip on your shoulder and look down your nose from your place of perceived moral high ground, but don't, for one second, think I'm going to be pleasant towards someone who says the things you have said. You take for granted the rights and privileges you have, rights and privileges that were paid for by the sweat, blood, and lives of our country's military. By vilifying them you are essentially saying '******** you, I don't care that you died so I could be free, you're a horrible person!'

See, this is why despite my fears and horror at the institutionalized beatdowns that would come from military training, I still do harbor jealousy at them and do wish to be in their place. ********, I admire and am in awe at what soldiers do just on a daily basis. I wish I could do it.

Besides that, this perk ALONE would be worth it. I would love for the ability to look down on every other civilian worm and tell them that I risked my a** for their softer a** and fought for their freedom. They are not allowed to talk back or disagree with me, because I fought for them. It is the certified "I AM better than you, punk" card, and it's impossible to argue with. Who wouldn't want that?!

I'm sorry, troll, did you say something? All I hear is 'blah blah blah' coming from you.

It would have sounded more intelligent had it actually said "blah blah blah."

Et tu?

[Aporeia]

Suicidesoldier#1

Aporeia

Suicidesoldier#1

Aporeia

I don't have an issue with mandatory service if you're a neutral country. I actually adore that idea.

What I do have an issue with is a fascist warmongering state like the US drafting unwilling individuals to fight wars they are vehemently against. If I were drafted to serve domestic defense, I wouldn't be too happy, but I'd also understand and let it be. If I were drafted to serve in the offensive for any of the wars we have going on right now, I would either engineer a revolt, or place myself in a position of sabotage worthy of treason because ******** that s**t; if I ever take a life, it will be of my choosing, not someone else's.

lol

Fascist...

It seems fitting, more outward than inward. The only words that accurately describe America's foreign policy in its entirety is "business as usual."

Because you know, freedom of speech (like what you're saying) is gone, the government is in control of corporations, there's no civil rights etc.

Exactly like fascism. xp

Except for the complete lack of core aspects of fascism.

If America doesn't like you, your business, or your skin tone, we bomb the s**t out of you without provocation.

[Fierbird42]

Queen of Mercury

You don't seem to get that vilifying our military for the things that they may have to do in a time of war is an attack. You can sit there with your chip on your shoulder and look down your nose from your place of perceived moral high ground, but don't, for one second, think I'm going to be pleasant towards someone who says the things you have said. You take for granted the rights and privileges you have, rights and privileges that were paid for by the sweat, blood, and lives of our country's military. By vilifying them you are essentially saying '******** you, I don't care that you died so I could be free, you're a horrible person!'

Fierbird42

I'm not going to support anyone - ever - for killing another human being. It doesn't mean I want them dead, nor do I view them as worthless scum. That would make me no better than a killer.

See above, There is absolutely nothing you could ever say that would change my opinion of you. You are scum. You take advantage of all the liberties that 'killers' fought and died for to make sure you had them. You are saying a big ol' ******** you to every soldier who has ever fought for YOUR freedom so you wouldn't have to get off your a** and do it for yourself.

I do care when people die. I'd rather not have anyone die. Which is why I stick to my beliefs. The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views. No matter how you look at it, killing a human is wrong. No matter if you're fighting for freedom or for control, once you kill, you're no better than the enemies you fight.

And I'd rather not have anyone fight for my freedom. It shouldn't take the death of so many good people to decide the freedom of humans.

But on the same topic, here's a quote from one of my favorite series, Doctor Who. “The good things don’t always soften the bad, but vice-versa, the bad things don’t necessarily spoil the good things and make them unimportant.” I'm not saying their deaths are unimportant. I'm not saying their sacrifices are worth nothing. I'm saying that freedom doesn't reduce the price for a man's life. Vice-versa, their sacrifice does mean freedom for america.

The reason I enjoy Doctor Who is because of the character the Doctor is. He strives for peace, and doesn't need to pick up a gun to obtain it. It's the kind of person I'd like to be. Someone who can be a hero, but without shedding blood in the process. War can only bring temporary peace, but at what costs?

[Suicidesoldier#1]

Aporeia

Suicidesoldier#1

Aporeia

Suicidesoldier#1

Aporeia

I don't have an issue with mandatory service if you're a neutral country. I actually adore that idea.

What I do have an issue with is a fascist warmongering state like the US drafting unwilling individuals to fight wars they are vehemently against. If I were drafted to serve domestic defense, I wouldn't be too happy, but I'd also understand and let it be. If I were drafted to serve in the offensive for any of the wars we have going on right now, I would either engineer a revolt, or place myself in a position of sabotage worthy of treason because ******** that s**t; if I ever take a life, it will be of my choosing, not someone else's.

lol

Fascist...

It seems fitting, more outward than inward. The only words that accurately describe America's foreign policy in its entirety is "business as usual."

Because you know, freedom of speech (like what you're saying) is gone, the government is in control of corporations, there's no civil rights etc.

Exactly like fascism. xp

Except for the complete lack of core aspects of fascism.

If America doesn't like you, your business, or your skin tone, we bomb the s**t out of you without provocation.

Right, just like how we killed all those white people in Europe, took out Saddam because he did nothing wrong and it didn't go through U.N. hearings first, just like how we weren't attacked by the Taliban and so on.

Yep, caucasian (yes, the middle east is technically "Caucasian" wink males who attacked the U.S. directly or started massacring thousands of people =/= no provocation and doing it only because of skin tone.


Seriously, when have we ever invaded a country because of skin tone, like literally ever.

[Buki_Actual]

I honestly think that we've gone down the road where some sort of conscription out of high school should be required. Not necessarily military, but just general public service as CuAnnan said early in the thread. Have military as an option, but also just civil service. You get comped with pay as well as higher education; public community college gets written off completely, private university get a big credit. The military option can also work similarly to the current Reserve option, although instead of the "one weekend a month, two weeks a year" deal, should be more often. Two weekends and six weeks? Every weekend maybe?

[Michael Noire]

a civilization incapable of mustering motivation for self defense is unworthy of perpetuation. Just as likely, mobilizing people to a cause should be a symptom of agreement with the cause by the people. If the people are opposed, forcing them to fight is generally uncalled for.

The reason you would want to force people to fight is perhaps because they have grown lazy or uncaring and apathetic. Perhaps they are ignorant of the necessity to defend themselves, or lack intelligence on the matter. The people in the Manhattan project largely operated out of ignorance, and there was resistance because when averaged out, a sequence of options for motivation can range from whimsical to absolutely necessity, yet that only averages to "moderately important". You can't really execute and abduct people for moderately important without coming off as a Despot.

The main problem behind sending draft soldiers off to war, is that most of our wars are unjust.

[Queen of Mercury]

Fierbird42

Queen of Mercury

You don't seem to get that vilifying our military for the things that they may have to do in a time of war is an attack. You can sit there with your chip on your shoulder and look down your nose from your place of perceived moral high ground, but don't, for one second, think I'm going to be pleasant towards someone who says the things you have said. You take for granted the rights and privileges you have, rights and privileges that were paid for by the sweat, blood, and lives of our country's military. By vilifying them you are essentially saying '******** you, I don't care that you died so I could be free, you're a horrible person!'

Fierbird42

I'm not going to support anyone - ever - for killing another human being. It doesn't mean I want them dead, nor do I view them as worthless scum. That would make me no better than a killer.

See above, There is absolutely nothing you could ever say that would change my opinion of you. You are scum. You take advantage of all the liberties that 'killers' fought and died for to make sure you had them. You are saying a big ol' ******** you to every soldier who has ever fought for YOUR freedom so you wouldn't have to get off your a** and do it for yourself.

I do care when people die. I'd rather not have anyone die.

This has jack s**t to do with anything I said.

Fierbird42

Which is why I stick to my beliefs.

Don't expect applause for sticking to beliefs that vilify and demean the sacrifices of others because you're sure as hell not going to get it.

Fierbird42

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views. No matter how you look at it, killing a human is wrong.

You're going to have to prove this. "I believe' is not proof.

Then you are going to have to prove that it is a universal fact.Like you said, this is the ED, you can't just post your opinion and have it be taken as fact.

Fierbird42

No matter if you're fighting for freedom or for control, once you kill, you're no better than the enemies you fight.

I'm not going to repeat myself so just read everything I have already said to you.

Fierbird42

And I'd rather not have anyone fight for my freedom. It shouldn't take the death of so many good people to decide the freedom of humans.

You must have lived in a bubble growing up where you weren't exposed to the real world. Freedoms do not come without a price or a cost. Look at all the countries in the Middle East where they live under Sharia Law and women can be stoned to death if they are perceived to be 'impure' and where if a woman is RAPED she is the one held at fault for it because she dared to leave her home. Without people willing to fight and put their lives on the line, we could very well have had similar restrictions in the US. But you don;t give a damn about that. You have all your liberties and freedoms, so who gives a ******** what anyone has had to do to make sure you didn't have to get off your lazy a** and fight for it yourself.

Fierbird42

But on the same topic, here's a quote from one of my favorite series, Doctor Who. “The good things don’t always soften the bad, but vice-versa, the bad things don’t necessarily spoil the good things and make them unimportant.”

Quoting a work of fiction.. wow, really? How about quoting real people, not fictional characters?

Fierbird42

I'm not saying their deaths are unimportant. I'm not saying their sacrifices are worth nothing. I'm saying that freedom doesn't reduce the price for a man's life. Vice-versa, their sacrifice does mean freedom for america.

I don't think you regularize that by stating 'I don't support them and what they do, they're just killers' means that you ARE saying their deaths, their sacrifices, are unimportant. Because they may have killed someone, they are undeserving, by your own words, of any support.

Fierbird42

The reason I enjoy Doctor Who is because of the character the Doctor is. He strives for peace, and doesn't need to pick up a gun to obtain it.

He's a fictitious character with some otherwordly 'talents'. I see that you do not reside in the real world like the rest of us. I'm wasting my time with you.

[from blue to]

GSK Lives

from blue to

Queen of Mercury

GSK Lives

Queen of Mercury

You don't seem to get that vilifying our military for the things that they may have to do in a time of war is an attack. You can sit there with your chip on your shoulder and look down your nose from your place of perceived moral high ground, but don't, for one second, think I'm going to be pleasant towards someone who says the things you have said. You take for granted the rights and privileges you have, rights and privileges that were paid for by the sweat, blood, and lives of our country's military. By vilifying them you are essentially saying '******** you, I don't care that you died so I could be free, you're a horrible person!'

See, this is why despite my fears and horror at the institutionalized beatdowns that would come from military training, I still do harbor jealousy at them and do wish to be in their place. ********, I admire and am in awe at what soldiers do just on a daily basis. I wish I could do it.

Besides that, this perk ALONE would be worth it. I would love for the ability to look down on every other civilian worm and tell them that I risked my a** for their softer a** and fought for their freedom. They are not allowed to talk back or disagree with me, because I fought for them. It is the certified "I AM better than you, punk" card, and it's impossible to argue with. Who wouldn't want that?!

I'm sorry, troll, did you say something? All I hear is 'blah blah blah' coming from you.

It would have sounded more intelligent had it actually said "blah blah blah."

Et tu?

Are we close enough to warrant that allusion?

Anyway, it's that looking down on civilians paragraph that attracted my remark if you care to know.

[Fierbird42]

Queen of Mercury

Queen of Mercury

Quoting a work of fiction.. wow, really? How about quoting real people, not fictional characters?

He's a fictitious character with some otherwordly 'talents'. I see that you do not reside in the real world like the rest of us. I'm wasting my time with you.

I never cease urging peace, which, however unfair, is better than the justest war in the world.

Everyone looks up to some fictitious character, don't act like that's such a bad thing. Even you look up to a fictional character. And there is nothing wrong with that. They represent the character the weak wish they were and the strong strive to be.

However, you so wish for nonfiction characters, I can do that too. It's not even hard. Two people in history who stand out in my mind are Mahatma Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr. You think a war can't be won without killing your enemy, these two people proved otherwise.

Look at the effects slavery had on the human race. How many people were stripped of their rights, or even killed, because of the color of their skin? Tell me, how was that war won? With the unnecessary killing of their enemies, or with protests and movements?

"No matter what someone else has done, it still matters how we treat people. It matters to our humanity that we treat offenders according to standards that we recognize as just. Justice is not revenge — it's deciding for a solution that is oriented towards peace, peace being the harder but more human way of reacting to injury. That is the very basis of the idea of rights."

Here is a quote from Martin Luther King Jr, read the whole thing, it's quite interesting:
"I am committed to nonviolence absolutely. I am just not going to kill anybody, whether it’s in Vietnam or here. I plan to stand by nonviolence…(because) only a refusal to hate or kill can put an end to the chain of violence in the world and lead toward community where people live together without fear. Humanity is waiting for something other than blind imitation of the past…If we want truly to advance a step further, if we want to turn over a new leaf and really set a new man afoot, we must begin to turn humanity away from the long and desolate night of violence. May it not be that the new person that the world needs is the nonviolent person…A dark, desperate, sin-sick world waits for this new kind of person, this new kind of power.

I have decided I am going to do battle for my philosophy. You ought to believe something in life, believe that thing so fervently that you will stand up with it until the end of your days. I can’t believe that God wants us to hate. I am tired of violence.

What kind of nation is it that applauds nonviolence whenever Negroes face white people in the streets of the United States but applauds violence and burning and death when these same Negroes are sent to the fields of Vietnam."

Quote:

You must have lived in a bubble growing up where you weren't exposed to the real world. Freedoms do not come without a price or a cost. Look at all the countries in the Middle East where they live under Sharia Law and women can be stoned to death if they are perceived to be 'impure' and where if a woman is RAPED she is the one held at fault for it because she dared to leave her home. Without people willing to fight and put their lives on the line, we could very well have had similar restrictions in the US. But you don;t give a damn about that. You have all your liberties and freedoms, so who gives a **** what anyone has had to do to make sure you didn't have to get.

Here's a quote from Albert Einstein, one of the greatest minds in human history:
"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding. You cannot subjugate a nation forcibly unless you wipe out every man, woman, and child. Unless you wish to use such drastic measures, you must find a way of settling your disputes without resort to arms."

There are other ways of obtaining peace. If you think a war will solve the Middle East's problems, you're going to need to kill everyone who ever agreed with their ideas, ever. Which means, if someone thought, even for a blip of a second, that their ideals were right, they would need to be offed alongside even the most devote of followers.

Quote:

I don't think you regularize that by stating 'I don't support them and what they do, they're just killers' means that you ARE saying their deaths, their sacrifices, are unimportant. Because they may have killed someone, they are undeserving, by your own words, of any support.

I don't think you understand. I'm not saying it's unimportant, that would be denying the fact that some good has come from it. There is some importance, and wars have accomplished much in history. What I'm saying is that I will never be the guy who joins the military, or ride around in the car with a "god bless the military" sticker. Because I care for every human life. I don't want to see my family die, I don't want to see my friends die, I don't want to see anyone in the middle east die, I don't want to see you die. Because a war isn't over until everyone who supports the losing side's belief is dead, and I don't want to see that.

"The world has achieved brilliance without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. If we continue to develop our technology without wisdom or prudence, our servant may prove to be our executioner."

[Suicidesoldier#1]

Fierbird42

Here's a quote from Albert Einstein, one of the greatest minds in human history:
"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding. You cannot subjugate a nation forcibly unless you wipe out every man, woman, and child. Unless you wish to use such drastic measures, you must find a way of settling your disputes without resort to arms."

There are other ways of obtaining peace. If you think a war will solve the Middle East's problems, you're going to need to kill everyone who ever agreed with their ideas, ever. Which means, if someone thought, even for a blip of a second, that their ideals were right, they would need to be offed alongside even the most devote of followers.

There are other ways to obtain peace, but they don't always work, just as violence doesn't always work.

But it can be the solution some of the time; no-one saying all of the Middle East's problems will be solved by war, but this one likely can. Some people can't or won't listen to reason, and what then?


You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it think.

At the end of the day, that is up to them.