Gender Roles are a GOOD THING

[Macodrone]

I've long since held the opinion that feminism seeks to destroy our differences instead of celebrating our diversity.

inb4 (a s**t ton of rhetoric and bullshit)

No, I'm not saying women should be denied the right to follow their dreams. If a woman wants to be a house wife. GOOD FOR HER.
If a woman wants to be a CEO, GOOD FOR HER.


No one should be discouraged from their dreams.



If a woman wants to work, GOOD FOR HER, should she have to by necessity? No, I don't think so.
Should she have every right to pursue her passions? FOR SURE! It would be abhorrent to suggest otherwise.
Should a man, by default, be the provider, protector, defender and leader of his household? I do believe he should.
Should a woman have to obey unreasonable, degrading or otherwise offensive requests from a man if they go against her nature? Hell, ********, no.
Date the guy, if you don't like the way he treats you, or the things he expects from you, dump him until you find a mate you're compatible with.


Gender roles serve a purpose, there are always exceptions to every rule, but I personally believe society functions better, and more smoothly, when we all accept that there are certain things we're good at and certain things we're not.

I can't give birth.
A woman can't lift 50-100 pounds for 8 hours a day without training her body to do so, most men can do this without having to train.

Men, are generally less impulsive during stressful conflicts, or in dangerous situations.
Women are generally better at being sympathetic, empathetic, caring and nurturing.


I will leave you with a quote by Hume.

"One cannot derive an ought from an is" and to put that succinctly, "A person cannot define a value from a fact"

And that is the problem.
Arbitrary value. Saying one thing is better than the other. Acknowledging the differences isn't the problem at all.

[Macodrone]

Please move this thread to ED

[Nuclear Muchacho]

Society would function better if people would focus on doing something productive stead of constantly groaning that "aw, (s)he shouldn't be doing that, that's a (wo)man's job". Who the hell cares if the meal you consume is done by a man or a woman? It should be tasty and not have poisonous/sharp objects in it. But people have too much time so they come up with all those taboos.

What one is suited for in life is entirely up to his capability. To say every man/woman should do what's expected of their gender is like saying wiping yourself afterwards causes death (everyone does it and everyone dies eventually). A woman that's inept at housekeeping won't make a good housewife and a man that ain't a murderous freak won't make a good trooper. Just do what you're good at. I can't lift heavy s*@# either - back problems. And what of it? I got a ton of other skills to utilise.

Things good and suited for some aren't for everyone. Simple as that.

[Very Horrorshow]

Sounds like you're talking out of both ends of your mouth there; you say making people stay in roles is good, yet are quick to say that people should break them if they wish. Roles are pretty pointless then, aren't they, if they're that strictly optional.

Also another elephant in the room you didn't address here or in your last thread; femininity is simply not rewarded nearly as much as masculinity in our culture. You're correct about the pay gap being a myth, but the bottom line is that the traditionally male jobs still pay more, and the humanities pay jack s**t.

[X of Castigation]

Why are any of these "roles" limited to one's gender? What makes anything especially female, or male?

Nobody fits exactly into any gender. Implying such is stupid.

[ratgirl34]

Feminism was originally about gender equality, or so I've heard, back when it first started up. Which was of course when women 'belonged in the kitchen.' It wasn't about removing gender roles, it was about creating the option to go against them if an individual wished to do so, without being treated as less of a person for doing so.

But you are right, it seems today that the majority of feminists talk about equality while trying to put men in a position of subservience. That's not equality, and it is sexist. Hopefully it's actually the minority, and they are just very loud, but it sure seems like there are a lot of man-hating bitches out there. Women are just as fallible as men, and we are just as likely to 'objectify' a man as a man is a woman. The difference is that radical feminists think they are special and that the behavior shouldn't go both ways. They also think that, 'Have a nice day, beautiful.' and a man holding the door for a woman is sexual harassment rolleyes

[Tackle and Tickle]

ratgirl34

Feminism was originally about gender equality, or so I've heard, back when it first started up. Which was of course when women 'belonged in the kitchen.' It wasn't about removing gender roles, it was about creating the option to go against them if an individual wished to do so, without being treated as less of a person for doing so.

But you are right, it seems today that the majority of feminists talk about equality while trying to put men in a position of subservience. That's not equality, and it is sexist. Hopefully it's actually the minority, and they are just very loud, but it sure seems like there are a lot of man-hating bitches out there. Women are just as fallible as men, and we are just as likely to 'objectify' a man as a man is a woman. The difference is that radical feminists think they are special and that the behavior shouldn't go both ways. They also think that, 'Have a nice day, beautiful.' and a man holding the door for a woman is sexual harassment rolleyes

If feminism is about gender equality shouldn't they be fighting to be treated equal in the justice system. As of yet to my knowledge no women in the United States convicted and sentence to death have been executed. There are many more sentences passed by the justice system that give women lighter sentences for the same crime a male commits. If they truly want gender equality they should focus on how the law treats women with a lighter hand in most areas.

[Yoshpet]

Gender roles do not celebrate diversity, they shoehorn diversity into two distinct molds and punish people for being naturally more diverse than the setup. Breaking down gender roles doesn't mean we are all the same, it means we can be a great many ways and that gender roles needlessly restrict us.

Men cannot give birth and women cannot become as muscular, but why should such biological differences preclude women from laboring at all when they can? Why should men not be allowed to raise children when they can be as nurturing as any woman? Gender roles encompass and restrict much more than the simple facts of our biology, and I think you know that.

[ratgirl34]

Tackle and Tickle

ratgirl34

Feminism was originally about gender equality, or so I've heard, back when it first started up. Which was of course when women 'belonged in the kitchen.' It wasn't about removing gender roles, it was about creating the option to go against them if an individual wished to do so, without being treated as less of a person for doing so.

But you are right, it seems today that the majority of feminists talk about equality while trying to put men in a position of subservience. That's not equality, and it is sexist. Hopefully it's actually the minority, and they are just very loud, but it sure seems like there are a lot of man-hating bitches out there. Women are just as fallible as men, and we are just as likely to 'objectify' a man as a man is a woman. The difference is that radical feminists think they are special and that the behavior shouldn't go both ways. They also think that, 'Have a nice day, beautiful.' and a man holding the door for a woman is sexual harassment rolleyes

If feminism is about gender equality shouldn't they be fighting to be treated equal in the justice system. As of yet to my knowledge no women in the United States convicted and sentence to death have been executed. There are many more sentences passed by the justice system that give women lighter sentences for the same crime a male commits. If they truly want gender equality they should focus on how the law treats women with a lighter hand in most areas.

And if it were still about gender equality that would probably have been done by now. Unfortunately it appears that the feminists who would agree with you are in the minority and because of the dominant radicals nobody will listen to them anyway.

I blame the media, they only put on the radical screamers because they get better ratings that way. When was the last time they put a sane and well-balanced woman on there to talk about gender equality? If they have in the last few years nobody will ever remember her anyway, and the media knows it.

[Divine_Malevolence]

Macodrone

Men, are generally less impulsive during stressful conflicts, or in dangerous situations.

Testosterone disagrees.
Men are more likely to be aggressive and dominant. Neither of which are exactly anything other than things that lead to impulsiveness.
It varies from person to person, but at the end of the day it's far more likely that the calmest person in the world's probably a woman.
....
Or a eunuch.

And gender roles are bullshit. Any woman who puts in any time at a job of consistent lifting will find herself adapting to the job and becoming quite capable.


Not that it really matters anymore.
And as technology evolves it matters even less.
Eventually there'll be no merit to lifting strength as the people involved in the lifting are just machine operators.

[X of Castigation]

Tackle and Tickle

ratgirl34

Feminism was originally about gender equality, or so I've heard, back when it first started up. Which was of course when women 'belonged in the kitchen.' It wasn't about removing gender roles, it was about creating the option to go against them if an individual wished to do so, without being treated as less of a person for doing so.

But you are right, it seems today that the majority of feminists talk about equality while trying to put men in a position of subservience. That's not equality, and it is sexist. Hopefully it's actually the minority, and they are just very loud, but it sure seems like there are a lot of man-hating bitches out there. Women are just as fallible as men, and we are just as likely to 'objectify' a man as a man is a woman. The difference is that radical feminists think they are special and that the behavior shouldn't go both ways. They also think that, 'Have a nice day, beautiful.' and a man holding the door for a woman is sexual harassment rolleyes

If feminism is about gender equality shouldn't they be fighting to be treated equal in the justice system. As of yet to my knowledge no women in the United States convicted and sentence to death have been executed. There are many more sentences passed by the justice system that give women lighter sentences for the same crime a male commits. If they truly want gender equality they should focus on how the law treats women with a lighter hand in most areas.

Come the ******** on, that was way too easy.

[Tigress Dawn]

It's a bit pointless to say that gender roles are good, then say do whatever you want. Which is it?

Gender roles define what you should have to do based on your genitals.

Not having gender roles means that you do what suits your strengths.

Unfortunately for many men and women, biology and the way the system is set up makes it hard for both genders to break out. A woman gives birth and naturally needs time at home to heal. A man can continue working, while the woman stays home with the baby and physically heals. Since most average income people don't get paid maternity leave, the father picks up an extra job or extra work. When the woman heals it makes it hard for them both to work, since child care is expensive as s**t. So the woman stays home since the father already has the financial situation figured out. It would be nice for both genders to get parental leave with babies so they could make the best decision for their family without making it based on physical necessity.

Just because this is how it usually works out, doesn't mean it's the best way.

[VeganIncubus]

Macodrone

arrow Feminism isn't about doing away with gender or gender roles. It's about letting people define themselves and what it is they wish to do. If they want to do science or anything that's been given over to the 'masculine' domain of knowledge or w/e, they can go ahead. What we'd like to achieve is to do away with gendering activities or jobs, or saying that so and so needs to do this and this because they were assigned a gender at birth.
Doing away with gender would also destroy the identities of individuals who do not ascribe to culturally acceptable views of gender by Western standards. We can't say that we can do away with two-spirit identity because it's a gender and gender can't exist. Postgenderism is a narrow view rooted in Western white feminism.
This is about letting people be. About not limiting an individual. About respecting and not imposing.

Gender isn't based on genitals, and is as fictional as biological sex, yet they comprise a huge part of who we are.
Can we get to a point where people are allowed to live life and seek out ways of expressing themselves and living that isn't tied to what their doctors assigned or their societies forced upon them? Why must we assume they're always forced?
Just a thought.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Tackle and Tickle

ratgirl34

Feminism was originally about gender equality, or so I've heard, back when it first started up. Which was of course when women 'belonged in the kitchen.' It wasn't about removing gender roles, it was about creating the option to go against them if an individual wished to do so, without being treated as less of a person for doing so.

But you are right, it seems today that the majority of feminists talk about equality while trying to put men in a position of subservience. That's not equality, and it is sexist. Hopefully it's actually the minority, and they are just very loud, but it sure seems like there are a lot of man-hating bitches out there. Women are just as fallible as men, and we are just as likely to 'objectify' a man as a man is a woman. The difference is that radical feminists think they are special and that the behavior shouldn't go both ways. They also think that, 'Have a nice day, beautiful.' and a man holding the door for a woman is sexual harassment rolleyes

If feminism is about gender equality shouldn't they be fighting to be treated equal in the justice system. As of yet to my knowledge no women in the United States convicted and sentence to death have been executed. There are many more sentences passed by the justice system that give women lighter sentences for the same crime a male commits. If they truly want gender equality they should focus on how the law treats women with a lighter hand in most areas.

I recommend you expand your knowledge then. (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/women-and-death-penalty). In the past 100 years, over 40 women have been executed in accordance with state death penalty laws. This took about three minutes to find.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

I am only a very limited fan of gender roles. I definitely don't think it includes presumptions about the emotional or moral dispositions of men and women.

I also think its important to note that the utility of gender roles is, for me, strictly limited to social settings between men and women who are not otherwise in a relationship, romantic or otherwise.