This is a Fantastic Four thread.

[Chaindragger]

Teatime Brutality

I don't even think the narrative happens in the comics.

Evil Douche Reed's a product of the fact that there're less people who read Fantastic Four than there are people who see out of context panels on livejournal, tumblr and 4chan. That and the fact that he's awful in Civil War and Civil War still seems to be an entry point for a lot of people (actually, that's one of the best things about AvX, now I think about it, is that it'll probably displace Civil War in that regard).

Evil Douche Reed's a thing that becomes a Thing Everyone Knows Is True regardless of the comics, and that the comics have to fight against. Hickman's made a very good go at it and, ironically, one of the most effective things he did was to use a Reed who actually was an Evil Douche in his Ultimates run so that people could compare and contrast.

I had heard that Ultimate Reed was officially an evil douche, and had asked if that was a Reed the anti-Reed crowd was referring to. They pretty much stand by all Reed is bad Reed. Their argument is this is the guy who took all his friends on a rocket ride and got one of them horribly mutated, and his experiments and inventions are typically the source of all the problems. You and I both know that's not the case, but I was honestly wondering if there was some ongoing character trend. I did know that he was involved in imprisoning people during at Civil War thingie which is pretty douchey, but then again the majority of the story involved characters that we're supposed to like being utter tools.

[Wally_West]

It seemed for a while there that the concept of "Reed as an out-of-touch-near-megalomaniac" that people who don't read FF comics say he is was what was informing the text itself. Civil War is, of course, the main result of this.

Someone needs to start a meme showing all the times Reed has been jaw-droppingly awesome.

[Chaindragger]

Wally_West

Someone needs to start a meme showing all the times Reed has been jaw-droppingly awesome.

Don't you need a Tumblr to do that? Doesn't Richard have a Tumblr?

[Wally_West]

Tumblr is a poor tool for espousing anything positive or not having to do with imagining entertainment characters having copious amounts of sex with each other.

[Teatime Brutality]

Wally_West

Tumblr is a poor tool for espousing anything positive or not having to do with imagining entertainment characters having copious amounts of sex with each other.

Aw, that's like when people criticise the Kindle for just being an e-reader. Certainly it's only good for one purpose, but it's so very well built for that one purpose.

Kyoujin Tsuru

Doesn't Richard have a Tumblr?

I do! But since it's mostly just communiques from my domestic life and Cute Things My Daughter Has Said, and since it only really concerns itself with imagining entertainment characters having sex during the months Big Brother UK is running, then it's only read by about nine people. All of whom like Reed already. It will not turn the tide.

[Chaindragger]

Hm. I guess its up to my and Blogger then. I'd need help with some ammo though.

Possibly a chart.

[Teatime Brutality]

You can't ask that of me. I'm in recovery.

What my tumblr can offer the the world though, are three more DeFalco commentaries...
#360
#361
#362

[Wally_West]

Don't worry. It gets worse. You'll know when you've reached the zenith. You'll just know.

[Teatime Brutality]

Wally_West

Don't worry. It gets worse. You'll know when you've reached the zenith. You'll just know.

My reading's ahead of my write-ups so I know this to be true.

#366 seems to be the turning point from "boringly bad" to "enragingly bad." I might even try and narrow it down to one panel ("Our adventures may actually be a subtle and insidious form of CHILD ABUSE!" ) and it all goes downhill from there.

That issue's very relevant to Reed Derailment, as it is mostly people queuing up to tell him that he's a disgusting human being because of [all fandom's rubbish reasons] and Reed for the most part agreeing.

By this point then we've seen Claremont play with the idea that Reed's a disgusting human being in that Fantastic Four Versus X-Men mini and Englehart do weird meta stuff that amounts to saying Reed's a disgusting human being. But it's here in 1992, if Marty's looking for the Evil Douche Reed arc, that it first becomes the Official Stance of the Fantastic Four comic book magazine that Reed's a disgusting human being.

[Wally_West]

I couldn't tell you the number of the issue that made me just up and stop reading Marvel comics, but it's the last appearance of DeFalco's version of the Frightful Four. I never saw how they fixed Ben's face after it was in a bucket for something like a year and a half.

[Chaindragger]

Wally_West

I couldn't tell you the number of the issue that made me just up and stop reading Marvel comics, but it's the last appearance of DeFalco's version of the Frightful Four. I never saw how they fixed Ben's face after it was in a bucket for something like a year and a half.

Its not in a bucket anymore?

I am so behind.

[Wally_West]

Is it safe to assume that DeFalco's run defeated Richard? I believe it is.

In other news....that Marvel NOW preview has me more happy to see Allred doing supehero work again than I thought possible. heart

[stalungrad]

I'm in the process of finishing off the Hickman run, ready to jump into the Faction Foundation (I'm more excited by his FF than his Fantastic Four, but I'm very open to both right now).

Conveniently, the last issue I've read is also the last one discussed here, so let's approach these in a Richardy way and find Four Things to say about ...

Fantastic Four #609

• This is an issue of resolving things I'd forgotten were still up in the air - specifically, this is a story about dead Galactus and surviving Nu-Worlders. It's lovely, in that it's both a total standalone and completely rooted in this great big thing Hickman's been doing. Like the Point One issue about the Nazi Fantastic Four, this is what I like in Hickman standalone issues. He's so great at writing Moments! within epics that it feels like there's an element missing when he messes about with things like his Willie Lumpkin story.
  
• That said, I think I've lost track of Galactus a bit - there are two dead ones, yes? The one buried by the Council of Reeds, and the one killed by the Defenders? And 616-Galactus is mighty unhappy about both.
  
• Like the F4 equivalent of Godwin's Law, the longer a writer stays on a book, the closer the probability of a Thing/Hulk fight approaches zero. This is a novel approach.
  
• To echo earlier sentiments in this thread, it's a real shame the final image isn't more dramatic. I like the double-page spread image of the Galactus spaceship, but I'd happily sacrifice it to end on a double-page spread image of the future city, with Galactus in the background.
  

[stalungrad]

FF #21

• Oh no! I was disappointed by this one. What looks from the cover like an issue about the heartbreaking situation facing two lovers ... doesn't really have much room to pay attention to either lover. Alright, Crystal finds time to do a cry, but there's more relationshippy stuff for Reed and Sue here than there is for Crystal and Ronan - and Reed and Sue themselves feel peripheral.
  
• So if there's little emotional love stuff, what is there? Well, there's one of my favourite Hickman tricks, where he returns to a scene we assumed we'd seen in its entirety, and reveals that more happened afterwards. Although this let me down too. Something I've loved in Hickman's run is that the various alien civilisations feel distinct but living. It never loses me, never has me thinking "this is just globby alien nonsense" ... until this issue. The Supreme Intelligence/Black Bolt clash didn't capture me.
  
• On the more positive side, I love all the regulars in this. They feel like commentators on the issue, and that's no bad thing. We get to see the kids, Reed&Sue and Johnny&Peter in some lovely, lovely scenes. I like that all three sets of characters have very different concerns about How To Behave In An Alien Royal Court. This appeals to me.
  
• I really like the art! I don't know what the general consensus is on Nick Dragotta, so I'm being brave and putting my opinion out there - this is wonderful! There's something a bit Allred about it at times, but it's very much its own thing too. I like the acting. It's comically extreme at times, but that works here, I think. Spider-Man's acting-behind-the-mask is particularly great.
  

[Chaindragger]

Now, as I'm not reading anything by the big two I find myslef missing reading comics about characters I dearly love. So, once again I have made an attempt to get into the Fantastic Four. The last time was FF #1, which did not go well as the issue was dealing quite a bit with the death of Johnny and felt like walking into a wake.

Fantastic Four #1 went much better. This was obviously a set up issue laying the groundwork of where we are, where we are going, and why we are going there. While this issue does not have me gushing, I did like it a bit. I do have quite a few qualms with the book, but i think I'll be giving this run a few more issues.