Batman is not THAT great. Can you convince me otherwise?

[Final Lucius]

....without sounding like a total fanboy?
My case:
I feel like people really like to overplay Batman's "contingency plans". For Superman for example. I mean he has like, a piece of Kryptonite. Okay, so Superman just laser beams him to death....from far away. Then what? But that's just a minor rebuttal I like to use. I'm just wondering, outside of that vague notion that he simply "knows everyones weakness", what real support is there for him to carry out his provisions?

Couple notes:
I said "THAT" great. I think Batman is awesome, just not that awesome.
So why bring it up? Every superhero has a section of their fan base that over blows their power.
While I agree with this, I belevie that Batman specifically has an unprecedented amount of hype, for a completely mortal character. I mean money is all that he's got and some martial arts training.

[DOROHEDOROBRO vIh]

I can't convince you. That's an impossible thing to ask for. Batman is just as mentally unstable as the rest of his rogues gallery. Sure he keeps his body at peak human condition but his mind isn't exactly right. The fact that he has contingency plans is proof of his paranoia and compulsiveness.

But that's just another reason why people love him.

[Final Lucius]

DOROHEDOROBRO v2

I can't convince you. That's an impossible thing to ask for. Batman is just as mentally unstable as the rest of his rogues gallery. Sure he keeps his body at peak human condition but his mind isn't exactly right. The fact that he has contingency plans is proof of his paranoia and compulsiveness.

But that's just another reason why people love him.

I see. So you're saying it's more of the, broody "cool" nature of the character himself rather than his abilities in contrast to the others?

[Just_Oneofakind]

Compared to the others who have special and unique power, Batman has his whole "normal human" thing going for him. There is some folks who don't like Superman, because of how he's written to be the super being. The whole brooding thing is also something that draw people to him.

[Chismo]

Yea, he has money and martial arts skills, but you forgot his genius level detective skills. His detective skills are actually my favorite attribute of his. He isn't called the "World's Greatest Detective" for no reason. The fact that he's the only human that can compete and even best super humans at their own game is a large reason why he's so popular. He also has to go back to back with maybe the greatest super villain comic books have to offer, being the Joker, on a normal basis. I don't get why it's so hard for you to accept his popularity. He's a much more complex and interesting character than most heroes, and in my opinion he's just a plain badass.

And that Batman vs. Superman riff is super old. Superman is a god, so of course in a straight one on one he would most likely win. Batman is just way too smart to fight Superman one on one fair and square though. His plans and preparations is what gives him equal footing. He wouldn't fight Superman unless he knew he had a high chance he could win, most likely due to a plan he conceived before hand. With that being said though, Superman is still Superman and the odds will always favor him.

I still think Batman's completely great, and would like to know who you think is more worthy than Batman in comparison that you'd even call him out anyways? I just want to know for the sake of argument. Batman isn't even my favorite Superhero, but he can probably take on the best from both DC and Marvel.

[Dark_Maiden_Queen]

Because he is human no weird things happen to make him super hero hes not a alien. Also the fact people might think hes all that great because he has the pity card. His parents were murdered he wants vengeance.

[Revolutionary Rhapsody]

Batman being great is definitely a subjective point of view, and I think everyone else pretty much covered what needed to be said or what could be said. Batman's brain is his home-trained superpower (and one of his weaknesses) and I think people are fascinated and enjoy aligning themselves with a hero that doesn't have super power advantages, he had to work for everything he has given the means (sure the whole rich privilege thing, but so many of the original popular heroes have their mary sue/trope traits). And to be fair, I think people are fascinated with how much Batman does - it's pretty easily accepted that he's taught himself all this engineering know-how and designs his own gear or creates modifications on other designs but that's still Bruce Wayne down in his cave full of lab, security, shop, and computer equipment making databases, analyzing data, keeping tabs on people like the paranoiac he is, and there he can also be found tinkering at a table with black coffee and a protein bar repairing or reworking some weapon or armor piece.

It's fascinating to imagine just how much Batman puts into being Batman.

Also, Batman has a lot of emotional and psychological appeal through his relationships with villains, comrades, and family. He genuinely cares for the Robins, he's shown to care about some villians and even empathize with their plight and isn't out to take them down but to save them from themselves (as well as stop their rampage). Under the Red Hood was a great movie that got you to see some great emotional distress that felt real and in-character for Batman, to basically be forced to face one of his sons (I sincerely do think d**k and Jason are like sons to him) and be faced with heart-breaking accusations.

I think Batman has a strong appeal to those of use that like to see bits of ourselves and our humanness in a hero, and for those of us that like to see characters we love be emotionally tortured and flung this way and that, gifted with good days in between and real successes too. Anyone who watched the Justice League cartoon and saw the Ace episode who didn't feel emotion or connection to Batman or feelings for how he was connected with Ace definitely doesn't understand some of the core elements that make up Batman and make him so entertaining.

He also has the dark and gritty appeal - Supes, WW, GL, AM, Flash - up until more recent incarnations, they weren't exactly the angst or dark babies, Batman's held real estate on that street long enough to be called king of the boardwalk.

As far as versus Superman...I think it's important to note that Batman has to understand his limitations and inherent futility where he to go against Superman, and that's why he'd be so paranoid. In the back of his mind, I really doubt Batman honestly thinks he could take down Superman, especially not easily or without losing some body parts in the process. I would maybe gander that perhaps Superman may be getting some more rounded qualities like weaknesses or vulnerabilities in newer incarnations? I think certain light frequencies can also affect him in a harmful way? I'm not a Supes fangirl so I wouldn't know too much D': But Batman could probably use his brain and strategy skills to his advantage as while I'll accept Superman has an above human intelligence, I really don't think his intellect could beat out Batman in many situations, and taking out unresistable mind control that also forces him to go at full strength, in a situation where he'd be after Batman, Superman is no true killer (except maybe in recent versions lol?) and Batman could use that to his advantage as well. But yeah, Bats vs Supes is old horse meat, Bats vs Iron Man is more amusing and interesting playing field. I'd also like some Bats vs Batwoman, just because I already got my dream team of BW and WW, now I wanna see BW teaming up with Bats for a bit or going head to head ;a;

I hope maybe you can see how some people are really passionate about Batman from some of the posts here though c:

[So As I Pray]

As Dorohedorobro said, I can't convince you otherwise.

Honestly, I'm losing the ability to even convince myself. There was a point where I praised him for being a super hero without "super" powers, but really? Who has that kind of money, a genius intellect, and such a ridiculously close to perfect human physique? It's kind of dumb, really, but I suppose that's why some people like him.

I prefer him from a standpoint where he's not really being played as a hero or villain. Times when you're learning about his damaged psyche, or how he deals with some situations.

I feel like Batman's at his lowest point interest-wise when he's in a series like Justice League, if only because then he's doing ridiculous things like fighting superhuman level things. As I said before, he's still a bit ridiculous, but at least within his own serialization he tends to be up against stuff that's not completely absurd for him to be fighting against.

I think I'm rambling.

[Virgil_Ashwood]

Yeah, I agree. The actual phrase is "With enough prep time, Batman can beat anyone." That doesn't fly for me since the same can be said for just about anyone, though I suppose Bats has the money to make it happen faster. He's not really that cool on paper but here's what I've got:

Generally what makes him awesome is that he's still a real threat despite not actually having any powers. He's at peak physical and mental condition because he made himself that way rather than some freak accident, cosmic power or just not being human. He's pretty much Sherlock Holmes as played by Robert Downey Jr., but with more money and angst.

After that, its really more about the execution of his stories. I find that Batman TAS was the most entertaining he'll ever be for me.

[Miss-dark8607]

I think it was Grant Morrison who said that Batman is the white guy fantasy kind of like James Bond. Thus, considering how the world works and who "rules" it that's why he's super popular. Hmmm has any non-white guys wrote a Bat-book?

[Winniwyn]

So As I Pray

As Dorohedorobro said, I can't convince you otherwise.

Honestly, I'm losing the ability to even convince myself. There was a point where I praised him for being a super hero without "super" powers, but really? Who has that kind of money, a genius intellect, and such a ridiculously close to perfect human physique? It's kind of dumb, really, but I suppose that's why some people like him.

I prefer him from a standpoint where he's not really being played as a hero or villain. Times when you're learning about his damaged psyche, or how he deals with some situations.

I feel like Batman's at his lowest point interest-wise when he's in a series like Justice League, if only because then he's doing ridiculous things like fighting superhuman level things. As I said before, he's still a bit ridiculous, but at least within his own serialization he tends to be up against stuff that's not completely absurd for him to be fighting against.

I think I'm rambling.

I'm not a huge fan of batman on teams either, though for me it comes from more of a characterization standpoint. I feel like too many people take the route of him being this massive a*****e to the rest of the team because of his paranoia, to the point where its starting to feel like people use it as a crutch. They don't know how to write Batman so they make him a jerk because he's the dark, brooding, paranoid guy who spends too much time in his batcave. You know, instead of doing something actually interesting with him.

[Captain Smee]

Im personally not a big fan of him. I dont hate him or anything. He is a pretty formidable person. But the one thin i hate more then anything about him is that he doesn't kill any of his enemies (at least not on purpose anyway)

You know how many people could have saved if he just put a batarang through the Jokers face? And his whole excuse about "not wanting to stoop to there level" Or "I don't want to turn into them" is complete and utter crap. Honestly he's doing more harm then good not killing his enemies. Especially if its people like the Joker

[Captain Talavar]

Let me just get three things out of the way.

1) I am a big Superman fan. Make no mistake, I'm a big Batman fan too, but as a Superman fan, if there's anything I'm tired of hearing, it's that Batman can either A) totally beat Superman in a fight somehow or B) is somehow an inherently better character. I find that a lot of Superman hate is silly and hypocritical, and the idea that Batman has a chance against Superman is laughable.

2) I'm not about to suggest that what makes him special is that he's a superhero without powers. That is not a unique trait. There's a ton of street level superheroes out there who have no powers. I'm also not going to suggest that it's his intellect or his wealth and gadgets, because again, these are not unique things. Prior to Batman, you had a slew of pulp heroes with the same elements, with The Shadow being a big inspiration to Batman specifically. Finally, I'm not going to suggest that it's because he has a colorful cast of memorable villains. That's something Batman picked up from d**k Tracy. People like to pat Batman on the head for having traits that have existed before and after him in many other characters, and that really annoys me.

3) I'm not about to suggest that one version of Batman is superior to all others either. For me the 60s Adam West Batman is just as cool as Scott Snyder's Batman, or Grant Morrison's Batman. I have a soft spot for any version of Batman that harkens back to his 1939 roots as a Shadow-esque pulp hero, of course, but that's a personal treat.

NOW THEN...what makes Batman so special? I think it comes down to a few things.

For starters, Batman is basically a perfect storm of characteristics that have worked in other characters before. The wealthy playboy who masquerades as a vigilante had been done before. But not necessarily with the kind of rogue's gallery he ended up with, which again is a borrowed idea from d**k Tracy. On top of those things, if you really think about it, he exhibits some traits that are almost villainous. Think of how he seemed in 1939. He wore a darker, more colorless outfit than most such characters. He had a secret underground lair underneath a spooky mansion sitting on a cliff on the outskirts of town. Even today you see these traits utilized for villains occasionally. Now consider that he's a detective. And a martial artist with a history of training overseas (something that also comes from the Shadow).

Batman is a combination of ideas that have been fit together just perfectly. Toss in that effective origin of his and you have quite a compelling character.

But, I'd say the Shadow is a compelling character too, so there must be more to it.

For one thing, it's worth mentioning that Batman was not always big kahuna. Superman wasn't either when Captain Marvel (now Shazam, sigh) came on the scene. Superman didn't get big until after Captain Marvel was sued out of existence, but Batman? Batman got big because of the 60s TV show. Don't let anyone fool you. That's what catapulted the character into prominent mainstream media attention. He had a couple serials before then, sure. So did Superman. So did Captain Marvel. So did a ton of characters. He wasn't exactly special. But then, that show came along, and it was a smash success. People like to imagine that it almost killed the character but that's a lie too often told. People also like to imagine that it's responsible for making Batman silly and goofy, another lie.

But I digress. After that show, things died down a little bit, but the launch sequence had already started, and even in the comics Batman was taking off. In the 70s you had the awesome stuff from Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams. You had Steve Englehart and his awesome stuff. Frank Miller came along with The Dark Knight Returns and, in my opinion the far superior, Batman: Year One. Then Tim Burton's movie came out and it was a firestorm of hype. I don't think any film since has had the hype that film had, not even The Dark Knight. And through the 90s there were a few Batman movies. And then starting in 2005 there were three more. And between 1992 and now, Batman has had four animated series, not counting prominent roles in two Justice League shows (which for some reason everyone likes to remember as one show) and a Young Justice show.

Toss in all the video games and toys and my next point is pretty clear: part of Batman's popularity comes from the simple fact that over the years, there has been a lot of Batman stuff for people of all ages to absorb and enjoy. He became a marketing juggernaut that simply cannot be knocked down.

However, there's still two other factors. None of those things would be as popular if not for one simple truth: there are a lot of good Batman stories out there. People with a lot of talent and a lot of vision have told some pretty amazing Batman tales over the years. I named a few of them up there, but there's even more than those. Many more. It's not just that there's been a lot of Batman. There's been a lot of good Batman too. A lot of Batman stories that really resonate with people, that mean something to people. Some Batman stories are so good they're practically literary graphic novels.

And why is that? If anything has been shown over the years, it's that Batman is versatile. The 60s Adam West Batman is just as much a true depiction of the character as Christopher Nolan's films, or the 90s animated series. It doesn't matter what kind of superhero stories you like, whether they're dark and gritty and complex, or simple and light and fun, or any other kind in between. There's a version of Batman for you, and for everyone.

Have there been clunkers? Sure. Batman & Robin sucked, we all know that. Even though I'm sure plenty of little kids may have liked it, and maybe a few adults too. Who knows? Either way, Batman has survived crap like that for all the reasons I mentioned above.

Batman just...works somehow. Even I'm not sure exactly how all those pieces managed to fit together so well, but they have. There's no going back. Bob Kane and the incredibly underrated Bill Finger (who is responsible for most of the ingredients of Batman despite getting none of the credit he deserves) changed things. Forever. There's no going back.

Batman's just an awesome character. This year marks his 75th anniversary. I bet the next 75 years are going to be a good run for him too.

Now if I could just get people to appreciate Superman more... sweatdrop

[Islamic Teacher]

nuff said

[lostphrack]

Miss-dark8607

I think it was Grant Morrison who said that Batman is the white guy fantasy kind of like James Bond. Thus, considering how the world works and who "rules" it that's why he's super popular. Hmmm has any non-white guys wrote a Bat-book?

Dwayne McDuffie did a few arcs on the old Legends of the Dark Knight series.