Looking for: Mangaka Mentor

[mindalt]

So i'm getting really into manga recently, but I know there's a lot to learn and understand before i can really understand the culture of the art, the way everything works, plotting, drawing of course, tools, manga studio (editing, TONING, adding text, editing on the computer basically, etc.) I also need help with developing characters and plots CORRECTLY, per se. How to make a story that could go long- Just things that are important to know. If you can help me with ANY of those please reply or PM me smile I don't want to just JUMP INTO IT you know? I want to make REAL places, and PEOPLE you CONNECT to, not just flat characters- I want a plot developed and intricate enough to allow for anything.

So if you'd like to share you're knowledge with someone, or brag about you work, what you do- anything related to manga, I'd love to hear it. I want to soak in as much as it as i can to become a viable manga artist. I have a strong artistic background, but just now taking manga seriously- though have enjoyed it forever. Tell me what you know, or whatever you want to tell me that you feel is important about manga. Regaurding publishing, story, characters, ART, supplies, computer editing, toning, past experience, references, anything.

I'd love to work with someone also, someone that i can exchange drawings with for critique to help improve my style with someone that knows what they're doing.

If you can help me with any of those things, i'd really appreciate it! <3 Just post what you know, or what you want to say about manga below!

Maybe other people can benefit from this forum-

Come masters, and novices alike! Post as a mentor, or an apprentice, or just post what you know about manga. That way other people can share their knowledge with other people that are looking for it- we can all agree that manga is difficult to get into.

Bump this thread if you like that idea ^

go go go!

[Kyousouka]

If you're just starting out with making comics, I recommend that you start with some short stories. That way, you can try a number of different storytelling styles (visual and narrative). Doing several shorter comics (5-30 pages) will allow you to experiment much more than an equivalent single long story, and experimentation makes for faster improvement.

Writing shorter stories will also allow you to practice writing something many longer stories never even get to - endings. Knowing how to write a good ending can make for better indefinite-length stories though, and you will probably see why once you've got a few stories under your belt.

Lastly, it seems like you see indefinite-length stories as some sort of noble goal. Why? In the Japanese manga industry, such stories happen because editors need stories to go on as long as readers are willing to shell out money for them, usually to the detriment of the actual story, and the successful writers are those who can meet this demand, not necessarily those who can craft a good overall story. If that's not the environment you're working in, why adapt its flaws?
It's fine to want to make a very long comic if you feel you have a lot of story to tell, but that's the point - only do it if you already know you have a long story in you. Figure it out before you start drawing it, spare yourself a lot of headaches later on.


Also, would you mind using an easier-to-read posting style? Tiny, light-coloured text is murder on my eyeballs.

[mindalt]

Kyousouka

If you're just starting out with making comics, I recommend that you start with some short stories. That way, you can try a number of different storytelling styles (visual and narrative). Doing several shorter comics (5-30 pages) will allow you to experiment much more than an equivalent single long story, and experimentation makes for faster improvement.

Writing shorter stories will also allow you to practice writing something many longer stories never even get to - endings. Knowing how to write a good ending can make for better indefinite-length stories though, and you will probably see why once you've got a few stories under your belt.

Lastly, it seems like you see indefinite-length stories as some sort of noble goal. Why? In the Japanese manga industry, such stories happen because editors need stories to go on as long as readers are willing to shell out money for them, usually to the detriment of the actual story, and the successful writers are those who can meet this demand, not necessarily those who can craft a good overall story. If that's not the environment you're working in, why adapt its flaws?
It's fine to want to make a very long comic if you feel you have a lot of story to tell, but that's the point - only do it if you already know you have a long story in you. Figure it out before you start drawing it, spare yourself a lot of headaches later on.


Also, would you mind using an easier-to-read posting style? Tiny, light-coloured text is murder on my eyeballs.

I lost all my codes for the colours i usually use lol i'm sorry. And i love long stories- it's what i'm good at, but i don't even know where to start as far as comics. Could you give me a super simple example of a 5 paged story that actually is interesting and could be told in manga? I've written short stories that i think are quite good, but they were all very metaphorical and not even sort of portable to manga, if you know what i mean. smile I'd love to start with shorter stories to work out my ideas like you said, i just don't know much about the story writing process as far as manga goes. I feel like such a noob haha.

[Kyousouka]

First thing I want to get out of the way: "manga" are simply comics. What you'll find on the pages of Shounen Jump and Gangan are only scratching the surface of what manga can be, because of the circumstances under which those comics are made. I use "comics" as my preferred term, but please keep in mind that I include manga under that term as well.

Second: when I said 5 pages, I meant 5 comic pages, not 5 prose pages. I'm not sure that came across clearly, it sounds like you're speaking in terms of prose pages.


Something as simple as a character blundering into a weird situation can make for a super-short story that's interesting, although it's up to you, the writer to make it so. Five pages can have more impact in the hands of a good writer than five hundred in the hands of a hack. Fuan no Tane is a good example of this, it's a horror series where each chapter is only a few pages long and there's hardly any character development, but they imply a lot of story that there's no room to show with the events and visuals, and even though many are open-ended, they're often quite interesting. There are also many other examples of interesting ~10-page stories in manga and elsewhere, usually in the form of anthologies.

If you're the type who likes really well-defined stories and can't stand the open-endedness you'll likely need for a very short story, then start with some 20-30 page stories. Instead of setting up for epics, focus on one-two characters at a time, jump right into whatever odd situation you're putting them in. You don't have to resolve everything, often it's what you don't explain that's the most interesting. Short stories will teach you about building a sense mystery, a valuable asset to any story of any length.

I can't tell you how you can make good stories, because every creator has their own ways, their own stories. What I find interesting might put you to sleep, and vice versa. The best way to learn is to read a lot of different stories (including ones you wouldn't normally want to read!), and to write a lot of different stories too. There's no shortcut. There are many books out there on story structure, on sequential art, etc, but these can only show you some possible ways to work, not your way to work.
That said, I recommend reading Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics and Making Comics (in that order). Though they focus more on the sequential art side of things and don't talk much about story structure, they should be useful because if you know how comics work, then you'll know how to write for comics. Writing a (non-crap) comic isn't as simple as taking a prose story and drawing pictures that show what's happening.

I wish I could offer more concrete help than this, but I don't know what you know and what you don't know. A lot of story structure stuff feels like common sense once you know it, even though it might not occur so easily to most people.
Check out Robert McKee's Story or another book/article on screenwriting. Take them with a grain of salt since those books are written with films in mind rather than comics and they tend to be more prescriptive than they could be. Because films are a bigger investment, film creators don't usually have the luxury to experiment/take risks, but as an independent comic creator, you do have that luxury. So, don't think of film structure as a guideline to follow, but instead think about why the guideline exists and why it makes films better, then apply the relevant parts to your comics.
Because there are so many guides to story structure (both in book form and online for free), I will not repeat the basics. I trust you can find them, as googling and finding resources is a necessary skill for any writer in any medium.

[mindalt]

Kyousouka

I'm totally on the same track, and had most of those things in mind earlier. Could you point me in the direction of a source of multiple short stories i could read? I was planning on doing that sort of first experience research as well, but i'm still trying to learn as much as i can now, ya know? I just haven't read enough, i know that already- but i didn't know how to get started. Reading short stories and making my own is a great idea smile What are some that you like? Or is there like a mangacloud but for short stories?

Thanks for all the help btw!

[Kyousouka]

mindalt

Kyousouka

I'm totally on the same track, and had most of those things in mind earlier. Could you point me in the direction of a source of multiple short stories i could read? I was planning on doing that sort of first experience research as well, but i'm still trying to learn as much as i can now, ya know? I just haven't read enough, i know that already- but i didn't know how to get started. Reading short stories and making my own is a great idea smile What are some that you like? Or is there like a mangacloud but for short stories?

Thanks for all the help btw!

There is not a large source of short stories that I know of, but I'm sure even general manga sites have anthologies and the like. Try searching for "anthology" or "short stories".

If you like horror: Fuan no Tane (aka Seeds of Anxiety) should be easy to find, and if you look up Junji Ito, you'll probably find his shorts alongside his longer stories.
Sleep of Reason is a horror anthology organized by Spike, who pops in on this forum sometimes. I haven't read it, but her previous anthology had more good comics than otherwise, so it's likely that Sleep of Reason is a worthwhile purchase too.

The Spera and Flight anthologies are worth looking into, and tend to be of overall higher quality than most due to the more rigorous selection process. I haven't read any Spera stories and can only go based on friends' recommendations, but the Flight books tend to have a more visual focus, so many of the stories are great examples of how to fully use the comic medium.
You can find these on Amazon, most likely.

There are also many webcomics out there that have short-story style formats (episodic related stories, or independent stories), but sadly there's no easy way to search for those. Webcomics in general should also make up a part of your comics diet, don't ignore them xP