no good Yuri/Shoujo-ai

[Tsukaira]

Iolanthe Aisling

Malakym777

that could mean anything, just like the Bleach or the Marimite ones were you're pretty sure its that kind of love (or at least a one sided kinda)

and no one gives a rat a** at how long you've been a fan, I've been a fan of Transformers since they came out, doesn't mean I can know everything about them and shut down people like you then too,

In English, yes, it could imply plenty of things. In Japanese, there are specific words for specific degress of closeness. Takeuchi does NOT use words that imply sexual relations. She says they're close friends. She does not say they're in love. She does not say they're shagging like bunnies. They are close friends. End of story. What doujinshika decide to do with them does not change the fact that they are not a canon pairing. There are very few canon pairings in Sailormoon: Usagi and Mamoru, Kunzite and Zoisite, Luna and Artemis, and Chibiusa and Pegasus. The rest are simply speculation and have not been stated.

Just because I tell someone some information that they got wrong doesn't mean I'm shutting them down.

You can -never- be sure of any relationship unless it's stated. Friendship is weighted differently in Japan than it is in the US. What the Japanese consider to be normal friends, we would consider to be too close to be just friends. Considering that all these things are created based on Japanese customs and cultures, it would do you good to learn the difference between Japanese friendship and Japanese sexual relationships.

If a relationship is not stated, you cannot assume, nor can you be sure that it's the way you think it is.

Also, keep in mind, the Japanese do not admit love so easily. That's a mistranslation on subtitler's parts. "(dai)suki desu" does not mean "I love you." "~no koto suki desu" also does not mean "I love you." There is a difference between romantic love and desire. Ai, koi, renai. There are several words, each with different degrees of meaning.

But like in Loveless, Soubi repeatedly says "Suki dayo" to Ritsuka. Was he not saying I love you? They translated it as that every time he said that. Also, why are people closer in Japan as friends and what cultural differences are there from the U.S. I'm just asking, because I'm curious. I know that it's normal to take baths together and stuff, but that's about the only diff. I can think of.

[Iolanthe Aisling]

Tsukaira

But like in Loveless, Soubi repeatedly says "Suki dayo" to Ritsuka. Was he not saying I love you? They translated it as that every time he said that. Also, why are people closer in Japan as friends and what cultural differences are there from the U.S. I'm just asking, because I'm curious. I know that it's normal to take baths together and stuff, but that's about the only diff. I can think of.

In the subtitles, that's what they translate it as, but that's not suki means. It's a common misconception because people confuse "like" with "love" in English, so they assume it means the same thing in Japanese.

When suki is used as an emotion, it's a lot like love, but it's not the love we normally think of. They have specific words for each type of love. When Soubi's saying "suki da yo" to Ritsuka, he's not saying he loves him to the point where he wants to have sex with him. That's where the confusion comes in. He has a strong emotional bond with Ritsuka, and he may be physically attracted to him (a particular ear kissing scene comes to mind), but all he's actually saying to him is that he cares for him deeply.

Relationships, for the most part, progress rather slowly in Japanese society. There may be couples who have never actually said "aishiteiru" to each other, due to the modesty of the society as a whole. Aishiteiru implies sexual desire. It's much more acceptable and polite to say you care for someone deeply rather than you desire them.

A lot of anime characters tell their friends "suki da" or whatever. They're not admitting romantic love. Best friends will say it all the time. It's kind of like if we say "I love you" to a close friend, but mean it in that platonic way. We don't mean that we're in love with our friends, just that we care for them a lot.

Friends in Japan are a lot more touchy feely. It has something to do with their society. They don't stigmatize close friends, they don't label them as homosexuals just because they're close like we end up doing here. It's paranoia on American's parts, which ended up getting passed down through generations. If a child is made fun of for being close to a friend, they grow up with that, and they tell their children the "proper" way to behave around friends. Children of homophobic parents are less likely to hug their playmates than children of open parents. smile

[HonorableShadow]

Revolutionary Girl Utena is one. Utena and Anthy's relationship is heavily implied...if you think about it, out of all the male characters, Utena and Anthy aren't really sutiable with all of them except with each other. Saionji is a [loveable] jerk, Touga made Saionji into a [loveable] jerk and is very power hungry, Akio...is the bad guy XD, and Miki...Miki is too innocent. ^_^ But I don't mind him.

Utena and Anthy kissed several times in the movie. heart

Though I'll enjoy any pair in that series. Even Ruka/Mikage or Juri/Mikage...and those characters never interact. XD

[Iolanthe Aisling]

HonorableShadow

Revolutionary Girl Utena is one. Utena and Anthy's relationship is heavily implied...if you think about it, out of all the male characters, Utena and Anthy aren't really sutiable with all of them except with each other. Saionji is a [loveable] jerk, Touga made Saionji into a [loveable] jerk and is very power hungry, Akio...is the bad guy XD, and Miki...Miki is too innocent. ^_^ But I don't mind him.

Utena and Anthy kissed several times in the movie. heart

Though I'll enjoy any pair in that series. Even Ruka/Mikage or Juri/Mikage...and those characters never interact. XD

As I said before, the kiss in the movie was done by the director. The manga and the movie manga make it pretty clear that Utena's straight. Same with the TV series, as far as Touga and Akio go. smile

It's shoujo for sure, but not shoujo-ai.

[if you seek a me]

Well how far can a friendship in Japan, with its slowly beomeing more and more Americanized (you can't deny that Aising) can be, I can see glompings and some nuzzling but I think the line beteen freinds and lovers (I think) is wend they start kissing passionly on the mouths. Would't you agree.

and just becuase Utena might have (don'y belive you Aising until I get the rest of the magna) with a guy doesn't mean she's not bi.

[Iolanthe Aisling]

Malakym777

Well how far can a friendship in Japan, with its slowly beomeing more and more Americanized (you can't deny that Aising) can be, I can see glompings and some nuzzling but I think the line beteen freinds and lovers (I think) is wend they start kissing passionly on the mouths. Would't you agree.

Another common misconception, thanks to anime and manga. There are plenty of people, the majority of people, actually, who are resisting the shift into Americanized relationships, which are seen as quite disgusting. Most couples don't even date without parental permission. There's still a huge sense of traditionalism and order. Confession, conversation, maybe dating. There are still omiais and familial wedding pacts. Most people still marry for stability and family rather than for love.

The problem is that people take manga and anime as reflecting reality. They don't. They are fantasy, which is why they sell so well. They show things that the mangaka might like to do, but would never do within the restraints of the society.

It's actually very rare to see Japanese kids kissing on the mouth. The only place you might openly see that is in Shinjuku's red-light district or Harajuku. Those are the rebellious teenagers. Most teenagers get embarrassed just from holding hands. Adults are still VERY traditional, and their children usually get in a LOT of trouble if they're caught. Also, abortion rates are still very high, so there's still a sense of shame when it comes to getting pregnant.

My friend actually observed this for me while she was in Japan for a year working on her Japanese degree.

[if you seek a me]

Find I go, ask my dad since he's in Japan (right now) about that next time he calls.

You just said at there forum of kissing is to hold hands so, wouldn't that mean most magna "couples" in magnas and anime that hold hands in some form would be a couple. I'm pretty sure that both Salor Nepute and Urisnes had held hands.

[Mama Ame]

For those of you who say Michiru and Haruka are not in a sexual relationship I suggest you watch the original unedited version.
And Naoko Takeuchi stated officially they are

[if you seek a me]

Ame no Tenshi

For those of you who say Michiru and Haruka are not in a sexual relationship I suggest you watch the original unedited version.
And Naoko Takeuchi stated officially they are

Yeah, We ALL know that, that's why every gay suppot group that talks about anime loves them.

I think Aisling just makes things uo or reads about it then claims to have all the books/dvds/whatever.

[[Masquerade]]

crying I don't think there's enough shounen-ai OR shoujo-ai! (I'm feeling more deprived of shoujo-ai right now, though, because it IS harder to find...)

[if you seek a me]

[Masquerade]

crying I don't think there's enough shounen-ai OR shoujo-ai! (I'm feeling more deprived of shoujo-ai right now, though, because it IS harder to find...)

I'm sure soon they will come I heard Kannazuki no Miko is coming to the US, and you could count .Hack//Sign as a shojo-ai since Tsukasa and Subaru are in a relationship and Tsukasa is a girl in real life, wend they find out Subaru bacily saids she doesn't care if that was true (whihc is it)

[Silverlight Angel]

Malakym777

you are a dumbass...

a list of mangas/anime with shoujo-ai/yuri in it

Revolutionary Girl Utena (great one)
Noir
Madlax
Sailor Moon
Azumanga Daioh
Bleach
Cardcaptor Sakura
Read or Die
Maria-sama ga Miteru
Pretty Cure
Mai-HiME
Oniisama e
Kannazuki no Miko


Now good out and find them, and don't say yuri is just about sex that's yaoi's job

QFE. Granted, most of the above's yuri/shoujo-ai can be explained as cultural differences concerning friendship and idol-worship.

I still think they're cute, and imagine them as couples. Because I like to. 3nodding

I do pretty much agree with Io. Most shoujo-ai and boy's love can be explained in much the same manner. Western society sees such relationships in a different light then they do in Japan, and so we interpret them as romantic.

I realize this, but like I said, I like to imagine them as romantic couples, so I have my fun. domokun

[small samurai]

if u ppl know any good yuri

pm me

[[Masquerade]]

Malakym777

[Masquerade]

crying I don't think there's enough shounen-ai OR shoujo-ai! (I'm feeling more deprived of shoujo-ai right now, though, because it IS harder to find...)

I'm sure soon they will come I heard Kannazuki no Miko is coming to the US, and you could count .Hack//Sign as a shojo-ai since Tsukasa and Subaru are in a relationship and Tsukasa is a girl in real life, wend they find out Subaru bacily saids she doesn't care if that was true (whihc is it)

I've seen the first episode of KnM! But no more than that.. is it really good? (The blond girl is SO cute!)

[if you seek a me]

[Masquerade]

Malakym777

[Masquerade]

crying I don't think there's enough shounen-ai OR shoujo-ai! (I'm feeling more deprived of shoujo-ai right now, though, because it IS harder to find...)

I'm sure soon they will come I heard Kannazuki no Miko is coming to the US, and you could count .Hack//Sign as a shojo-ai since Tsukasa and Subaru are in a relationship and Tsukasa is a girl in real life, wend they find out Subaru bacily saids she doesn't care if that was true (whihc is it)

I've seen the first episode of KnM! But no more than that.. is it really good? (The blond girl is SO cute!)

it is on of the best (I heard they're making another season too due to the ending I guess plus they could do the Solar shrine)

the blond one is Kurusugawa Himeko her girlfriend the other one is Himemiya Chikane
and they do in fact have sex making it a yuri. (in the magna too)