Sierra Latkje
Alrighty. I know I'm the new guy as far as the guild goes, but hey. Location, location, location. The verdict may already be handed, but opinions are there to be expressed, and as such, I'd like to put in my two cents regarding this matter.
Primus: The old DM rules. Interesting, save those are flawed as well, and a rather weak defense proving that ultimately no point was proven at all. First off, in regard to that statement, the DM is always right in his own mind, if he happens to mastermind the game, but without the respect and trust of his players, he's just a little man behind a cardboard shield rolling dice for himself. One of the most abusive powers of all Dungeon Master logic is bound in the fallacy of those rules, and it amuses me to no end to see those quoted laws, as it were, come up in any discussion. My day has truly been made by seeing this dubious set of rules used. Don't think this a personal jab; I feel the same in any instance of the so called 'DM Rules' used for any actual discussion or argument. It was meant to be a joke, not used in actual application. I've yet to meet a good DM that requires their use.
Secundus: Now to the meat. The argument about Negima being a fantasy setting negates itself, you see. A student not being a soldier is obvious in real world logic. However, on a similar note, being it is a fantasy world that logic also defeats itself, in a cyclical fashion, being as its very existing factor is cause for denial of the statement in question. What you're using to attempt to stop something from happening is just opening the door for it to happen. Let's break something down a moment and see if it makes sense from the way I observe it, being the new guy. But, being the new guy with most likely the most overall gaming experience until proven otherwise, it should be noted thus.
There are no 'equivalent levels' in Negima. As an anime setting, there are no levels, classes, hit dice, or any other indicator of a level of skill beyond that of what the writer injects into his medium to appease the populace that finds his product entertaining, as well as give him a creative outlet for his impulses. Now, apply this rather chaotic formula to an environment that requires cooperation from coordinators and the actors in such a play. Obviously some parts will have more overall capability, but how much is too much? Deflection of multiple projectiles is a determination of skill, in my opinion. Even in a fantasy environment, there has to be a general adherence to the realms of physical truth. A common student of mahora may not be able to use guns at the level of a military personnel person. But we are not speaking of ordinary students are we? No, we are speaking of main characters.
I saw a post above that refers to a sword cutting a bullet when the two opposing forces meet, that has real world basis. However, one must consider that there are factors for such a thing. First off, does the swordsman know the shot is coming? If not, how will he detect it coming in time to deflect it? If he does, what if there are other shots incoming? Do silencers figure in? Some of us are very detail oriented, and use that to our advantage. There are a lot of other points I could continue on, but the moral of the story is, not every skill will work in every situation. Even without an actual party mechanic, since western mages are after all, meant to work in support teams (according to actual Negima canon), there is always going to have to be applications of reality mixed with your fantasy.
Don't get me wrong. I hate discussions of real-world science in fantasy environments, but there will always be some modicum of it, because everything that suspends disbelief has its roots in something that has to be the target of that suspension, and those concrete laws will always hold their place. Without the rules to break, there would be no breaking; everyone would be flying, every mage would rule the world, and so forth, and so on, ad infinitum.
On a final note, consider in today's world how easy it is to learn how to fire a gun professionally, and with precision and skill, practicing just a few hours a day. If a child starts early under the tutelage of a parent, away from where law enforcement eyes would watch, perhaps even in a magical environment (such as a bubble against observations, which obviously do exist in Negima), you're saying professional capability with a gun is impossible at a certain age? That's a total contradiction of Negima's suspension of disbelief that I see quoted here. In a world like Akamatsu's, a child CAN be a soldier with the right backstory, and the right plothole; the amount of time spent on training (ie, students not soldiers), is a real-world mechanic and thus nullified by the very argument that makes everything possible that was used in a defense to attempt to make it impossible in the first place. I don't understand why you'd build up a wonderful explanation and then figuratively shoot yourself in the face, no offense, but..I see it as being a rather redundant cycle.
That's about it. If there's anything anyone wants to ask me regarding these opinions, feel free. I prefer to use messenger though if the discussion gets too lengthy, so if anyone wants it, just ask me for it. Gaia's a bit slow for things like this.
Primus: The old DM rules. Interesting, save those are flawed as well, and a rather weak defense proving that ultimately no point was proven at all. First off, in regard to that statement, the DM is always right in his own mind, if he happens to mastermind the game, but without the respect and trust of his players, he's just a little man behind a cardboard shield rolling dice for himself. One of the most abusive powers of all Dungeon Master logic is bound in the fallacy of those rules, and it amuses me to no end to see those quoted laws, as it were, come up in any discussion. My day has truly been made by seeing this dubious set of rules used. Don't think this a personal jab; I feel the same in any instance of the so called 'DM Rules' used for any actual discussion or argument. It was meant to be a joke, not used in actual application. I've yet to meet a good DM that requires their use.
Secundus: Now to the meat. The argument about Negima being a fantasy setting negates itself, you see. A student not being a soldier is obvious in real world logic. However, on a similar note, being it is a fantasy world that logic also defeats itself, in a cyclical fashion, being as its very existing factor is cause for denial of the statement in question. What you're using to attempt to stop something from happening is just opening the door for it to happen. Let's break something down a moment and see if it makes sense from the way I observe it, being the new guy. But, being the new guy with most likely the most overall gaming experience until proven otherwise, it should be noted thus.
There are no 'equivalent levels' in Negima. As an anime setting, there are no levels, classes, hit dice, or any other indicator of a level of skill beyond that of what the writer injects into his medium to appease the populace that finds his product entertaining, as well as give him a creative outlet for his impulses. Now, apply this rather chaotic formula to an environment that requires cooperation from coordinators and the actors in such a play. Obviously some parts will have more overall capability, but how much is too much? Deflection of multiple projectiles is a determination of skill, in my opinion. Even in a fantasy environment, there has to be a general adherence to the realms of physical truth. A common student of mahora may not be able to use guns at the level of a military personnel person. But we are not speaking of ordinary students are we? No, we are speaking of main characters.
I saw a post above that refers to a sword cutting a bullet when the two opposing forces meet, that has real world basis. However, one must consider that there are factors for such a thing. First off, does the swordsman know the shot is coming? If not, how will he detect it coming in time to deflect it? If he does, what if there are other shots incoming? Do silencers figure in? Some of us are very detail oriented, and use that to our advantage. There are a lot of other points I could continue on, but the moral of the story is, not every skill will work in every situation. Even without an actual party mechanic, since western mages are after all, meant to work in support teams (according to actual Negima canon), there is always going to have to be applications of reality mixed with your fantasy.
Don't get me wrong. I hate discussions of real-world science in fantasy environments, but there will always be some modicum of it, because everything that suspends disbelief has its roots in something that has to be the target of that suspension, and those concrete laws will always hold their place. Without the rules to break, there would be no breaking; everyone would be flying, every mage would rule the world, and so forth, and so on, ad infinitum.
On a final note, consider in today's world how easy it is to learn how to fire a gun professionally, and with precision and skill, practicing just a few hours a day. If a child starts early under the tutelage of a parent, away from where law enforcement eyes would watch, perhaps even in a magical environment (such as a bubble against observations, which obviously do exist in Negima), you're saying professional capability with a gun is impossible at a certain age? That's a total contradiction of Negima's suspension of disbelief that I see quoted here. In a world like Akamatsu's, a child CAN be a soldier with the right backstory, and the right plothole; the amount of time spent on training (ie, students not soldiers), is a real-world mechanic and thus nullified by the very argument that makes everything possible that was used in a defense to attempt to make it impossible in the first place. I don't understand why you'd build up a wonderful explanation and then figuratively shoot yourself in the face, no offense, but..I see it as being a rather redundant cycle.
That's about it. If there's anything anyone wants to ask me regarding these opinions, feel free. I prefer to use messenger though if the discussion gets too lengthy, so if anyone wants it, just ask me for it. Gaia's a bit slow for things like this.
Prejudice. That's clearly the point in some places. Because we dare to ask. Dare to play our style while still conforming with theirs. Scared of what exactly? My character is not as good in firearms as Mana Tatsumiya (equal maybe, but not better), she has no magical abilities past 3, and even Nodoka and Yue surpasses her in that regard. The only thing that keeps me in this place, this supposed literate enclave. Nothing could be further from the truth. No flexibility. DM's word is law. Even if it offs players. Besides, a good majority of them seem xenophobic, untrustful of myself. Or maybe its just because I called one mod out in terms of his 'baby'.
Personally, if you're going to design a purpose built sniper rifle that can fit in a breifcase and spend thousands on it, I'd take the same money and buy a Knight's Armament Company SR-25 Carbine with silencer, folding bipod, and a Schmidt and Bender 1.1–4 x 20 Short Dot (with locking turrets). It'll be expensive, but not as expensive as making his suitcase gun, and is more...sensible. Sierra's post was deleted, most likely by the member below.
But I digress. The above post was a counter to the post below:
Chachamaru v2
Allow me to throw in my two cents; which has been agreed upon by ShadowOfIce. Feel free to contact him if you do not believe me.
Negima is fantasy. As long as the concept of fantasy exists, the rules are free to bend. Getting into a heavy real-world discussion about firearms vs swords (the former of which I'm not too happy about the large amount present anyway >.> wink is really not worth the effort.
As long as a weapon fires any sort of physical projectile or beam, it will, as shocking as it may seem, be subject to being flawed. A projectile can be deflected or blocked - all it needs is something in the way. Arrows can be snatched in midair, grenades can be blown away with a blast of heavily compressed air, and a bullet can be blocked by a sword.
Just because you have knowledge of real-world firearm mechanics does not make you Die Ubermensch. Everyone has flaws. Negi has Flaws, Xenon has flaws, even Cassandra has flaws.
Remember: You aren't soldiers. You are students. Stop putting so much emphasis on the firearms logic and remember that Negima is set in a Fantasy world. The number of bullets being fired at the person is irrelevant - if they were skilled enough to parry one shot, they could easily parry multiple ones.
Verdict, as decided by both Chachamaru V2 & ShadowOfIce:
Bullets can be blocked by swords - but if it is done to an abusive degree, the Crew will step in and point it out. Rules 1 & 2 apply to this decision.
Rule 1.
The DM is Always Right.
Rule 2.
In the event that the DM is wrong, see Rule 1.
Negima is fantasy. As long as the concept of fantasy exists, the rules are free to bend. Getting into a heavy real-world discussion about firearms vs swords (the former of which I'm not too happy about the large amount present anyway >.> wink is really not worth the effort.
As long as a weapon fires any sort of physical projectile or beam, it will, as shocking as it may seem, be subject to being flawed. A projectile can be deflected or blocked - all it needs is something in the way. Arrows can be snatched in midair, grenades can be blown away with a blast of heavily compressed air, and a bullet can be blocked by a sword.
Just because you have knowledge of real-world firearm mechanics does not make you Die Ubermensch. Everyone has flaws. Negi has Flaws, Xenon has flaws, even Cassandra has flaws.
Remember: You aren't soldiers. You are students. Stop putting so much emphasis on the firearms logic and remember that Negima is set in a Fantasy world. The number of bullets being fired at the person is irrelevant - if they were skilled enough to parry one shot, they could easily parry multiple ones.
Verdict, as decided by both Chachamaru V2 & ShadowOfIce:
Bullets can be blocked by swords - but if it is done to an abusive degree, the Crew will step in and point it out. Rules 1 & 2 apply to this decision.
Rule 1.
The DM is Always Right.
Rule 2.
In the event that the DM is wrong, see Rule 1.
Anyways...that's my...rant...I'm bored...
