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Do you use Iron Body skills.
Yes
62%
 62%  [ 5 ]
No
37%
 37%  [ 3 ]
To painful
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 8


Wolf Nightshade
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:12 pm


Some styles have training like Iron Hand training or Makiwara training this can be done by striking hard targets over and over. Iron Body is the training of the whole body Shaolin monks are one groop that uses this sort of extreme training smacking themselves with and against bags, trees and other such thing. It has been known for a long time that hiting bones against hard objects with controled force will make the bones build up more and become stronger. This alows you to not only destroy weaker targets but will make it fairly painfull for some one to try to hit you. One of my Sifus blocked me punch and his hand felt like a brick.

I my self built a training dummy out of metal normaly they use wood but I was welding and had metal so thats what I made it out of. I beat my arms on my dummy almost every night for up to an hour or at least half that. I also like walking around my house and punching the concrete walls of my house. I have seen video of Chinese martial artists beating them selves against trees I have also seen TKD guys hiting trees. Muay Thai is an oviouse one most of them kick banana trees.

I will add more when I can on methods of Iron Body training.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:44 pm


The karate (Japanese) method of training the hand is the most common type of hand conditioning. It is found in most hard styles of karate and crosses over into tae kwon do, which is extremely popular and accessible in my area. This is the kind of conditioning to which I was first introduced.

Karate conditioning focuses primarily on the use of the makiwara. Makiwara come in various sizes and shapes, but basically consist of a slightly flexible wood post wrapped with rope. The makiwara is struck repeatedly with increasing intensity, resulting in toughened, calloused hands and enlarged (calcified) knuckles. Seiken (forefist) and tegatana (knifehand) are the two primary techniques, but any surface such as palm heel, elbow, knees, and kicks may be used.

You can make a simple makiwara by digging a 1'x 3' hole in the ground, filling it with quick dry cement, and planting a 4"x 4" wooden post in it. The post should stand at least head high. Straw was traditionally used for its rumored antiseptic properties, but in this modern age, cotton clothesline will do fine. Wrap a double layer (or more) of the clothesline around the target portion of the makiwara (shoulder height).

Wall mounted makiwara are available at martial art stores, but they are often too padded and soft for proper training.

A hand held makiwara is also suitable and can be made by wrapping clothesline around a 14" section of 1"x 2" wooden plank.

Training on the makiwara is fairly basic, simply hit the post as many times and as often as you can withstand without injury. If you suffer a bruise or break in the skin, you should hold off training until the wound is healed.

You can also supplement your training by striking into a bucket filled with sand.

Liniment is often neglected in this form of training, but some karatekas do employ the use of dit da jow liniment. In my opinion, a good dit da jow should always be used before, during, and after training to prevent injury and discourage the development of arthritis down the road. Find a dit da jow that works well for you. The effects will vary depending on your personal physiology.

Makiwara should be trained daily, but there is no strict set regimen. The key is not hitting the makiwara so hard that you hurt yourself, but repetition and consistency.

The down sides are a tendency to neglect training due to the lack of schedule, conditioning only selected surfaces of the hand, possible slow to medium progression, and extensive callousing and/or scarring of the hand as well as an eventual possible loss of dexterity.

However, hand held makiwara can be very convenient to carry with you and use all day long. Makiwara trained hands are rather noticeable and can be ugly (though I personally find them quite beautiful in their deadliness, but that's my problem). If you like to show off, they are a sure sign of dedicated training in the old ways.

Mas Oyama (known, at times, as the Godhand), founder of Kyokushin Kai and world famous for his tameshiwari skill, developed knuckles on the makiwara that could withstand the blow of a hammer. He was best known for fighting bulls and severing their horns with his fearsome knifehand.

http://www.karatebreaking.com/karatemethod.html

Wolf Nightshade
Vice Captain


Wolf Nightshade
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:46 pm


The iron palm method is the hand conditioning regimen that I prefer. I enjoy the set schedule for training, the relaxed method, and most of all, the speedy results. I also prefer this method because it trains the palm heart, or the flat of the palm. In my opinion, the flat palm slap is the trademark strike of fighting gung fu. Iron palm is the essence of the gung fu of legend, not the watered down version that so many modern practitioners bring to fights, only to be crushed.

There is no mistaking an iron palm slap for boxing, karate, or mindless street brawling. As for its application in tameshiwari, the iron palm is unrivaled when it comes to breaking solid objects. Though you might be inclined to think otherwise, it is much easier to break a brick with the iron palm than it is with a punch, chop, hammerfist, or palm heel strike. I know this from experience. Iron palm is also noted for its capability of breaking the bottom brick in a stack without spacers. Such a practice is known as selective breaking.

Ku Yu Cheong, one of the most famous masters of iron palm, reportedly could break bricks selectively in a stack. Iron palm falls short only when it comes to breaking flexible objects (wood, baseball bats) and objects with spacers. I explain it to people with this example- the palm slap can move anything it strikes one half an inch. Since cement cannot flex, it breaks. If the object, such as wood, can flex farther than that, it will not break. This is only an exaggerated example mind you, and only an example of my personal theory at that. As for spacers, the palm has difficulty sending energy through "hollow" area.

There are many variations of the iron palm conditioning process and each usually has a set amount of time for the initial phase. During this first phase, training must be done daily. After that, maintenance training varies. The first phase ranges anywhere from one month to three years or more. There are also advanced levels of the iron palm as well as internal and external conditioning.

The regimen I use is a variation of the traditional 100 day method and combines both internal and external training. This method produced good results for me in minimal time. Many others have also reported favorable results. I will honestly tell you that 100 days is not enough time to produce an invincible palm, but it will create a hand that is dangerous enough for combat, as well as allow you to break red bricks. This regimen conditions the entire hand.

Train at your own risk. I do not recommend training for those under 16 years of age.

Materials Needed:
-10" wide x 24" long (or larger) canvas bag
-approx. 1" round river rocks (enough to fill the bag half way)
-old towel
-cinder blocks (support stand)
-dit da jow

The method is as follows:

Set up the cinder blocks so that you can sit on one and the other(s) create a stand in front of you that is about the height of your naval (while seated). If the surface of your stand is not level due to the shape of the cinder block, you may have to lay an additional concrete slab on the top for a nice flat surface. Place the towel (in single layer) over the support stand. This is your striking surface.

Fill the canvas bag with the rocks and fold the remaining half of the bag over to create a side that is double layered. Tape the bag shut (masking or duct tape will do). Place the bag on the stand and your simple setup is complete.

**When striking for training, it is important to stay relaxed and allow your hand to drop onto the surface.
Do not tense the arm or shoulder, or exert strength while striking. Always breath out as you strike. Exerting strength or failing to breath out is said to stress the heart. Granted, thousands of karateka pound on the makiwara without regard to this and still do not suffer heart attacks. Even so, I choose not to tempt fate and try to keep my arm relaxed as possible. You do what you like at your own risk.

Apply dit da jow to hands and massage before and after each set

PART ONE

1. Drop your flat palm on the bag 30 times, shake out the hand, strike another 20 times, shake out the hand and flex.

2. Drop your knife hand on the bag 30 times, shake, 20 times, shake and flex.

3. Repeat for the palm heel surface.

4. Repeat for the back of the hand.



PART TWO

Remove the bag so that you are now striking the cement/cinder support covered with the towel.

1. Drop your knife hand 30 times, shake, 20 times, shake and flex.

2. Repeat with the palm heel.

3. Repeat with the flat palm.

4. (optional) Strike with backfist 30 times and repeat with straight fist.



Optional training:

You can supplement with a bucket of sand. Straight punch the sand 30 times and repeat with the backfist. Do 100 spearhand thrusts into the sand. You can also rub the sand between you hands to toughen the skin.

Some iron palm practitioners feel that it is unwise to train the knuckles of the fist because of possible long term joint damage. This is fine for strict iron palm fighters, but if you train in any fist striking art, it may be wise to strengthen your knuckles. Chinese acupressure teaches that training the fingertips can weaken the eyes. Take this into consideration when training spearhand but also realize that plenty of karate stylists train fingertips and can see just fine.

Different teachers advocate different numbers of strikes per session. Some use hundreds or even thousands of repetitions. Some say to train three times a day, others say you must train the exact same time everyday without missing a day. Maybe these routines are ideal, but with the method I outlined above, you can train whenever and even miss a day or two. The less days you miss, the better it will be for you. You should achieve impressive results after 100 days of training. At that point, you should be able to break a single patio block with a flat palm slap (use a towel padding at first).

If it helps, mark the days off on your calendar. If you don't keep a record, you may not be training as often as you think. Good Luck!

http://www.karatebreaking.com/chinesemethod.html
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:06 pm


My Wing Chun class uses a 100 day method I have not done it yet but those who have stand in front of a table we have. On the table is a bag laying flat one standing behind it and two others at the sides. They begin by slaping the palm and back of the hand on the bag that is laying flat and punch the one standing behind it the ones on the sides are for knife hand strikes and things the hads are beat on the pads which are filled with beans, sand or lead shot at times. Beans are normaly first and sand as well the lead shot is more for people who have been at it for awile. Dit Da Jow is a type of wine from what I understand it is used as an Herbal Liniment for bruises and things many true Chinese martial arts schools make or at least use Dit Da Jow for Iron Palm training. My school get it from or Grandmaster who makes his own.

Dit Da Jow is a big part of Chinese Iron Body training proper use of the tools of Iron Body will keep you from crippling your self. Iron body is a hard training for the most part it can be hard on joints if not done with care. You are rebuilding your body in a way forcing it to build up bone mass as well as hardening your flesh.

Wolf Nightshade
Vice Captain


Wolf Nightshade
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:15 pm


Coconut break Iron Palm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7GpK1eSnpw

Coconuts are said to be as hard or harder than a human skull.

Shaolin Iron Body
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAOc-0nV80I

Cool Chi stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_WZcQoSJxc&NR

The power of one finger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edmLBMpg1QY&mode=related&search=
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:32 pm



Wolf Nightshade
Vice Captain


nightwing773

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:53 pm


wonderful information, you did a way better job of explaining it than I could ever have, I work with the Iron Body training quite a bit, I have a one hour long, two times a dot specifically working on my iron body skills and strengthing my joints just for the hell of it, it works wonders. biggrin biggrin Just be careful how much you work, I didn't start off working this much, keep that in mind of anyone reading this who wants to start it.

And I hadn't heard of the sand method before, just the cylindar blocks and such, nice work. biggrin biggrin
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:30 pm


In Tiger Claw and other arts that use finger attacks they will take buckets of sand and stabb down into it with the fingers this doing finger pushups and holding heavy jars with the fingers in a claw like hand strengthen the fingers so they can be used to strike weak areas of the body.

This link shows this sort of Tiger Claw training.
http://www.wongkk.com/shaolin/tiger-crane04.html

Wolf Nightshade
Vice Captain


Wolf Nightshade
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:41 pm


I normaly punch my wall fairly hard close to full power but you don't need to hit that hard. Step up to the wall and put your fist against it just so you can touch it hit it with a little force not much then as time goes by use more and more force once that dose not bother you get a little closer. Using paper on the wall or using a makiwara style bored is a good idea. Also it would be great to do knuckle push ups wile doing this it will help with the rist if the rist is weak your punch will be to.

On my arms I use my dummy and sometimes a pice of wood I got off a broken shovel I swing my arms against the dummy and then beat them on the arms of it. I also have a cuple of metal plates from my welding class that I smack on my arms and sometimes my shins. If you get a nice inch round dowl rod or have a bat laying around you can roll it on your shins and tap on them untill you can handle a little mor force. A guy who once went to my Wing Chun class back befor I quit had a heavy bag that he filled with sand and he would kick it over and over. I wish I had a place to set something like that up.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:41 pm


hmm... thats interesting. my instructer wants me to learn breaking tecniques so i can put on displays for the school. im a little leary of it since i do a lot of work with my hands and i cant offord to get severe arthritise or anything in them right now or in the future. i would like to strengthen my grip though, is there any kind of training regimen for that?
i remmember you talking to me about that dit da jow stuff. ill have to ask my instructor about it. i dont sappose its somthing you can just get over the counter is it?

Roninofthewest


Wolf Nightshade
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:21 pm


Finger push up sqeezing a rubber ball and there is a thing called the eagle catcher.Eagle Catcher

Dit Da Jow is a Chinese herbal thing you can find how to make it or buy it off the net. Best to look around for people who know what they are doing some martial arts stores on the net sell the stuff some of it is pricy. Every one has there idea on how to make the good stuff best bet look at some masters web site but I wouldent waist the money.

Unless you are doing Iron Palm/body stuff in a Chinese system you need to talk to your teacher. Most martial arts styles have a body hardening system do it the way your teacher says to. Karate uses the Makiwara way striking a target with a little padding over and over moving to harder things as you go.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:10 pm


Does anyone know how they train Iron Crotch? I hope they don't bang their balls against hard objects.. gonk

choylifutsoccer


Wolf Nightshade
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:44 pm


I don't even want to try Iron Crotch they do all sorts of training but it realy has nothing to do with what we think of Iron Palm and what not. From what I under stand they work on muscle controle it is said Sumo wrestlers can make their testicals go up and in a little to protect them I can do this but it's not easy to hold them there long I don't know. I think that is the same for Iron Crotch not only do they strengthen the muscles but they learn to controle them.

This guy is well known for this kind of freaky training.
http://www.ironcrotch.com/
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:47 pm


YOU CAN MOVE YOUR TESTICLES??? gonk eek How is that even possible?

choylifutsoccer


Wolf Nightshade
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:04 pm


I dout I can explain it clearly but the muscles around that area can pull the testicals up a bit making it harder to realy hit them. I realy have never done this and had someone test it to see if it hurt as much I don't think I realy want to. The only way I can explain it is it's sort of like sucking in your gut.
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