Why are Catholic hospitals allowed to deny medications?

[nobhdy]

Chachamaru-kun

I honestly would be a bit afraid of a privately owned hospital.

Maybe its just me, but that still kinda creeps me out.

sweatdrop gonk

And so you would rather have the government run it? The government that is run by conservative christians that you despise so much?

Hmm. I'll take the private one, thanks. I trust the free-market, and we've seen a million times that privatization produces better results.

A private hospital is accountable to the people who go there, so they'll work hard to be the best to attract business. A government run one, will not. They have no incentive.

Basic economics, friends.  

[zawazawaii]

nobhdy

Chachamaru-kun

I honestly would be a bit afraid of a privately owned hospital.

Maybe its just me, but that still kinda creeps me out.

sweatdrop gonk

And so you would rather have the government run it? The government that is run by conservative christians that you despise so much?

Hmm. I'll take the private one, thanks. I trust the free-market, and we've seen a million times that privatization produces better results.

A private hospital is accountable to the people who go there, so they'll work hard to be the best to attract business. A government run one, will not. They have no incentive.

Basic economics, friends.

No, I meant the term creeps me out.

:/

'Privately owned hospital' sounds like a hospital in someones basement.

 

[nobhdy]

Chachamaru-kun

nobhdy

Chachamaru-kun

I honestly would be a bit afraid of a privately owned hospital.

Maybe its just me, but that still kinda creeps me out.

sweatdrop gonk

And so you would rather have the government run it? The government that is run by conservative christians that you despise so much?

Hmm. I'll take the private one, thanks. I trust the free-market, and we've seen a million times that privatization produces better results.

A private hospital is accountable to the people who go there, so they'll work hard to be the best to attract business. A government run one, will not. They have no incentive.

Basic economics, friends.

No, I meant the term creeps me out.

:/

'Privately owned hospital' sounds like a hospital in someones basement.

Oh, haha. My mistake. How embarassing.  

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

SterileNeedles

PhaedraMcSpiffy

I don't want everything to be run by the government. That's not communist, that's totalitarian. And it scares the living s**t outta me. I do, however, think that there need to be some restrictions on how businesses are run. (Like controls on how much they pollute and other, more specific laws for safety and such.) But I do see your point. It's largely up to consumers to make decisions on the way businesses are run.

What I'm worried about is when people can't just go someplace else. What if you live in a rural area with only one hospital nearby?

There's also a huge shortage of Planned Parenthoods and other organizations of that nature.

Well yes of course, safety laws and such make perfect sense, as well as laws about pollution because those things can affect and/or harm other people.

Well if they are determined to get their emergency contraception then they may have to drive a bit. I myself drove way out in my state just to get EC because the closest clinic I could find was over on the other side of town. Their website even guaranteed that there would be no protestors and they were right! xd It was like a little hidden abortion clinic in between a few other small business buildings.

That's interesting to hear considering how many pro-choicers there are. Maybe people could work hard to help build public hospitals/other medical facilities for doctors in rural areas so that women can get the treatment they want. Like, pro-choicers could make a charity to fund for a non-religious hospital to be built in those areas.

Yeah, but pro-choice people aren't fanatics who protest all the time. Anti-choicers do. They're a minority, but they're so vocal that they push out all opposition. They refuse to be ignored, and they aren't going to stop until abortion is illegal. Pro-choice people would need to unite, and it's just not happening.

And why make two hospitals in one area? Waste of resources.  

[SterileNeedles]

PhaedraMcSpiffy

Yeah, but pro-choice people aren't fanatics who protest all the time. Anti-choicers do. They're a minority, but they're so vocal that they push out all opposition. They refuse to be ignored, and they aren't going to stop until abortion is illegal. Pro-choice people would need to unite, and it's just not happening.

And why make two hospitals in one area? Waste of resources.

The funny thing is that if abortion were made illegal then we'd hear all of the fanatic choicers protesting all the time and their voices would be really loud about this issue. Maybe because it is still legal that they don't really care to band together even though many seem to feel threatened that it will become illegal.

Well ok then. You're just gonna have to deal with that one hospital that you don't like then or drive way out to somewhere else to get what you want. xP  

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

Ah, paradoxes. Is that the right word? Contradictory things that don't make sense?  

[nobhdy]

SterileNeedles

Well ok then. You're just gonna have to deal with that one hospital that you don't like then or drive way out to somewhere else to get what you want. xP

If there is a need for a hospital in a region, or even a pharmacist, or a planned parenthood, or any of the great number of enterprises that offer contraceptive products, if there was a need then one would spring up in that neighborhood.

Its economics. If there is high enough demand, it will appear.

Plus, we seem to forget the fact that hospitals aren't the only place that offers contraceptives.  

[Nethilia]

SterileNeedles

Well ok then. You're just gonna have to deal with that one hospital that you don't like then or drive way out to somewhere else to get what you want. xP

A woman should not be made to drive out of her way because the nearest hospital thinks that abortion and ECP is murder. Not to mention, not everyone can drive, has the money to drive that far, or is in an urban area that means going hundreds of miles out of her way to get health care because Catholics seem to think they have the right to make others follow their faith. Health care should not be based on the whims of a religion. In no other job is someone allowed to use their religion to not do a job whatsoever.

If Catholic Hospitals want to deny birth control and contraception, fine. But they should not be allowed to be the only hospital in the area.

As for the "hospitals aren't the only areas" situation--in many places, they are. Again, do not assume that people can easily access a Planned Parenthood or other clinic. In Only 13% of counties in the US have abortion services available. In Mississippi, there's ONE clinic that provides abortion, and they're trying to shut it down. There are thousands of women living there; they should not be made to drive to Louisiana or even further because some people think their faith overrides someone's rights.

Sticking stumbling blocks in front of women seeking health services and saying "sucks to be you" is not pro-choice. It's classist, racist, and divisive.

We've got enough "just suck it up and deal" assholes on the anti-choice side. I don't need them on my side too.  

[nobhdy]

Nethilia

Sticking stumbling blocks in front of women seeking health services and saying "sucks to be you" is not pro-choice. It's classist, racist, and divisive.

We've got enough "just suck it up and deal" assholes on the anti-choice side. I don't need them on my side too.

Yes, but forcing the owner of a private property to comply with you just for your convenience isn't too noble either.  

[Half Baked SF]

nobhdy

Nethilia

Sticking stumbling blocks in front of women seeking health services and saying "sucks to be you" is not pro-choice. It's classist, racist, and divisive.

We've got enough "just suck it up and deal" assholes on the anti-choice side. I don't need them on my side too.

Yes, but forcing the owner of a private property to comply with you just for your convenience isn't too noble either.

This is why I despise the women who come into my place of business. You see, I work in a maternity ward, but I am morally opposed to giving birth. Therefore, I refuse to offer my services to any woman who wishes to give birth, even when they are in the middle of labor.

Every day at least one woman has to complain to me about how I'm a huge b***h for not offering my services to them. I sympathize with the workers in Catholic hospitals when they are attacked for "failing to do their job" when it confluicts with their morality.  

[Nethilia]

nobhdy

Nethilia

Sticking stumbling blocks in front of women seeking health services and saying "sucks to be you" is not pro-choice. It's classist, racist, and divisive.

We've got enough "just suck it up and deal" assholes on the anti-choice side. I don't need them on my side too.

Yes, but forcing the owner of a private property to comply with you just for your convenience isn't too noble either.

Catholic hospitals shouldn't be made to do things against their faith, no. However, they should be made to inform people that they are Catholic, that they have a bias--which is rather ******** up in medicine, no one should be allowed to use faith to deny health care of any kind on a wide scale--and a second hospital and clinic should be set up for those of us who are not and do not wish to be subjected to Catholic law. If a Catholic hospital is the only hospital in the area--or worse, is the public hospital that people who have no choice have to go to--then something is WRONG.

Privacy of faith does not extend to your private right to be an a*****e and use that faith to avoid helping other people.  

[nobhdy]

Toga! Toga!

This is why I despise the women who come into my place of business. You see, I work in a maternity ward, but I am morally opposed to giving birth. Therefore, I refuse to offer my services to any woman who wishes to give birth, even when they are in the middle of labor.

Every day at least one woman has to complain to me about how I'm a huge b***h for not offering my services to them. I sympathize with the workers in Catholic hospitals when they are attacked for "failing to do their job" when it confluicts with their morality.

Now come on, that isn't a good analogy at all. First of all, it is the hospital's policy, not the individual person inside it. If you work in the maternity ward, then I'm absolutely positive that the hospital's policy would be to assist those in giving birth. Therefore, for not doing your job, as perscribed by your employer, you would be fired.

However, in this case, the employer itself is the one implenting the policy, not the individual worker.

Secondly, I think we can all agree that the purpose of a maternity ward is to assist women in giving birth. I think we can all agree that the purpose of a hospital is to provide health care for people. Does this entail distributing contraceptives? Not necessarily.

You love analogies, right? Let's do one. I feel that all Italian restaurants should offer breadsticks. You see, an Italian restaurant is an establishment which vends food of the Italian variety, and something that many of them offer are breadsticks. I feel they all should offer that, even though it is not strictly what they are meant to do.

And yet, I can't force them to run their business a certain way.  

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

Quote:

If there is a need for a hospital in a region, or even a pharmacist, or a planned parenthood, or any of the great number of enterprises that offer contraceptive products, if there was a need then one would spring up in that neighborhood.

Its economics. If there is high enough demand, it will appear.

Plus, we seem to forget the fact that hospitals aren't the only place that offers contraceptives.

Not true.

There is a demand for abortion services everywhere that it not being met. Look at the examples of Mississippi just stated. And think of South Dakota! There must be a demand there, and yet it is illegal for there to be a supply.

And there are plenty of people out in my rural area, but the nearest hospital is miles and miles away. You can either go on a LifeFlight helicopter, have someone drive you, or die in an emergency.

Unfortunately, your "simple economics" are being employed to make abortion services disapppear. People protest to shut down clinics, they deny them funding. So while abortion is legal in 49 states, not all women have access. Just as Nethilia said, sitting back and letting this happen is not pro-choice.

nobhdy

Yes, but forcing the owner of a private property to comply with you just for your convenience isn't too noble either.

Convenience is relative. And I really hope you aren't implying that women have abortions just for "convenience", because that's absurd and implies that women who have abortions have no moral standards. I'm sure women have used abortion "just for convenience", but that doesn't mean we all just go out and get them for the hell of it.

nobdhy

Toga! Toga!

This is why I despise the women who come into my place of business. You see, I work in a maternity ward, but I am morally opposed to giving birth. Therefore, I refuse to offer my services to any woman who wishes to give birth, even when they are in the middle of labor.

Every day at least one woman has to complain to me about how I'm a huge b***h for not offering my services to them. I sympathize with the workers in Catholic hospitals when they are attacked for "failing to do their job" when it confluicts with their morality.

Now come on, that isn't a good analogy at all. First of all, it is the hospital's policy, not the individual person inside it. If you work in the maternity ward, then I'm absolutely positive that the hospital's policy would be to assist those in giving birth. Therefore, for not doing your job, as perscribed by your employer, you would be fired.....

Here's my suggested revision to that analogy: A HOSPITAL whose policy is to have no maternity ward or services to help pregnant women deliver babies because they are against overpopulation or something.

Or a hospital who refused to treat attempted suicides or people with illnesses caused by drugs, alchohol, or obesity because "it's their fault." Or something.  

[SterileNeedles]

Nethilia

SterileNeedles

Well ok then. You're just gonna have to deal with that one hospital that you don't like then or drive way out to somewhere else to get what you want. xP

A woman should not be made to drive out of her way because the nearest hospital thinks that abortion and ECP is murder. Not to mention, not everyone can drive, has the money to drive that far, or is in an urban area that means going hundreds of miles out of her way to get health care because Catholics seem to think they have the right to make others follow their faith. Health care should not be based on the whims of a religion. In no other job is someone allowed to use their religion to not do a job whatsoever.

If Catholic Hospitals want to deny birth control and contraception, fine. But they should not be allowed to be the only hospital in the area.

As for the "hospitals aren't the only areas" situation--in many places, they are. Again, do not assume that people can easily access a Planned Parenthood or other clinic. In Only 13% of counties in the US have abortion services available. In Mississippi, there's ONE clinic that provides abortion, and they're trying to shut it down. There are thousands of women living there; they should not be made to drive to Louisiana or even further because some people think their faith overrides someone's rights.

Sticking stumbling blocks in front of women seeking health services and saying "sucks to be you" is not pro-choice. It's classist, racist, and divisive.

We've got enough "just suck it up and deal" assholes on the anti-choice side. I don't need them on my side too.

Then do something about it! God! Don't sit around whining about how women can't get there contraceptives in certain rural areas because of whatever. I already gave an example of what choicers could do, which is band together and make a charity and get donations, give donations etc. to help build public hopsitals or private hospitals or whatever that offer contraceptives, I'm sure that there are many other things choicers could do as well to help. And as soon as I give a suggestion of what people could do to help out these women I get the 'buts'. "But they won't band together blah blah." So I figured fine then, if you're just going to sit around and whine about how women can't get their contraceptives and blame Christians for all the s**t going on and imply that you want to force a private hospital to go completely against their morals and give abortions to women then whatever. I'm just going to be passive about the subject. I see no reason to argue about it if you're all just going to whine and b***h about Christians and how they're ******** everything up.

And don't give me that "Well pro-lifers will protest and stop us," "Their voices are louder than ours" bull-s**t because I've seen you guys in action and I have never seen you guys back down in the debate thread, so why would you ever back down in the real world?

Abortion became legal thanks to the strong and loud voices of choicers in the 60s-70s. I'm sure we could be just as loud again and get together and demand that the government, or whoever, or do it ourselves and build these hosptials/abortion clinics/pharmacies/etc. and get these women their contraception that they need in their areas.  

[SterileNeedles]

PhaedraMcSpiffy

Just as Nethilia said, sitting back and letting this happen is not pro-choice.

So what are you doing to help fix this then? Argue about it on the Internet? In fact I am curious, I see a lot of people complain about this stuff on here, what have you all done to try and help fix these problems that you all have such an issue with?