Forced pregnancy, A crime against humanity : UN

[Myythren]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity

I thought this was rather interesting. This section especially:

Quote:

For the purpose of this Statute, "crime against humanity" means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack[6]:
(a) Murder;
(b) Extermination;
(c) Enslavement;
(d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
(e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;
(f) Torture;
(g) Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
(h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
(i) Enforced disappearance of persons;
(j) The crime of apartheid;
(k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.

The bolded sections are what could really apply to the debate. I haven't see this brought up before so it is something new to toss at the anti-choices who think they've seen all our arguments.

It also shows that even a body as varying as the UN appears to be pro-choice. So it's not just a first world thing thing, is an international thing. Also what does banning abotion do to the US's international repution in regards to this document in particular. Could anyone be changed with crimes against humanity if abortion was made Illegal?

These sites also mention it, since wiki isn't the greates source, although it is the clearest I've found as of yet.

http://www.crimesofwar.org/thebook/crimes-against-humanity.html
http://www.preventgenocide.org/law/icc/statute/part-a.htm#2  

[Trite~Elegy]

Hoshit - I need to put a quote of such in my sig. eek  

[Half Baked SF]

Now the lifers are going to get a hold of this and emphasize murder as their defense for this crime against humanity. rolleyes  

[Kabocha-chan]

Toga! Toga!

Now the lifers are going to get a hold of this and emphasize murder as their defense for this crime against humanity. rolleyes

But, it doesn't count, because according to the UN, they cannot force a pregnancy. So, if a woman wants an abortion, she's allowed to get it.  

[Myythren]

Kabocha-chan

Toga! Toga!

Now the lifers are going to get a hold of this and emphasize murder as their defense for this crime against humanity. rolleyes

But, it doesn't count, because according to the UN, they cannot force a pregnancy. So, if a woman wants an abortion, she's allowed to get it.

Yep. And even if they ignore that, the bottom section covers it again.

"Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health."

I think that covers pregnancy in some situtions, and any where a woman does not want to be pregnant.  

[Kabocha-chan]

Myythren

Kabocha-chan

Toga! Toga!

Now the lifers are going to get a hold of this and emphasize murder as their defense for this crime against humanity. rolleyes

But, it doesn't count, because according to the UN, they cannot force a pregnancy. So, if a woman wants an abortion, she's allowed to get it.

Yep. And even if they ignore that, the bottom section covers it again.

"Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health."

I think that covers pregnancy in some situtions, and any where a woman does not want to be pregnant.

Yes. It just dawned on me that as Toga said, the opposition might use this to their advantage, however... If an abortion causes them said "great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health," then that's something they would have imposed upon themselves.
They made the choice to go through with it, and that is their freedom.

Just because someone has a bad experience with something, doesn't mean it should be banned for the rest of the population.

It'd be like me saying "Hey! I'm lactose intolerant! Because milk makes me ill, nobody else can have dairy products!"
But I'd never do that. I loves mah ice cream from Cold Stone too much.


If my thinking is flawed at any point, feel free to point it out. I'm not running on much sleep here.  

[Akhakhu]

I've been saying all along that the right to BD is covered by international law as well as the US constitution. Thank you very much for the concrete example! You ought to post this in the Library of Logic for future use!

As for the "murder" thing, it doesn't hold water. There is clearly a conflict between "murder" (in some people's opinion) and "forced pregnancy." However, "forced pregnancy" is named specifically, whereas "killing gestational human cells" is not. Therefore, the one that is named specifically can be assumed to hold precedence over the one that is only strenuously argued to be included under a broader category.

Furthermore, any person being enslaved, deprived of physical liberty, forced into prostitution, etc... would be justified in comitting "murder" in order to defend and free themselves. They would NOT be tried for crimes against humanity. Self-defensive action is respected by the UN.

Now we can only hope and pray that the UN will actually disassociate itself from the US. It's the fall of the UN that they just act like yesmen to the US. The US doesn't pay it's bills to the UN like every other country does (in order to remain represented), yet it has some of the largest representation there. The headquarters are in New York, for heaven's sake! It's ridiculous! The UN is an INTERNATIONAL organization in charge of policing THE WORLD. Not just agreeing with everything the US says and sucking US c**k. It's disgusting. I bloody well hope that they take a stand for the rights of women and take Bush to international court. Not only for his crimes against women and his other acts of sexual discrimination, but also for attacking another country unprovoked and for all the s**t that's been going down in the POW camps where people have been held for years and tortured without anything even close to resembling a trial.

Clinton was almost empeached because he cheated on his wife. Bush stole billions of dollars from the country, sent many of our young men off to be killed, warred all around the middle east without provocation and without backing from congress, and he's still there. What the ********?  

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

I remember once when Ani DiFranco noticed that starting phony wars and all the other screwed up things Bush has done are not grounds for impeachment. "Only blowjobs."

Back on subject: Excellent find!

I think somebody ought to include this and an explination on why abortion does not qualify as murder in a Library of Logic topic.  

[Half Baked SF]

Kabocha-chan

Toga! Toga!

Now the lifers are going to get a hold of this and emphasize murder as their defense for this crime against humanity. rolleyes

But, it doesn't count, because according to the UN, they cannot force a pregnancy. So, if a woman wants an abortion, she's allowed to get it.

I know that, but the lifers can't let it go.  

[ntropi]

Trite~Elegy

Hoshit - I need to put a quote of such in my sig. eek

You should add "--United Nations" to the bottom of it, to give it more credibility in the eyes of anti-choicers.

Otherwise, it art teh gorgeous!

heart Ntropi heart  

[Akhakhu]

ntropi

You should add "--United Nations" to the bottom of it, to give it more credibility in the eyes of anti-choicers.

WARNING: BLATANT STEREOTYPES AHEAD

Most pro-lifers tend to be the ultra-concervative red neck types. And most of those types tend to think that the UN's sole job is to prance around ineffectually and stumble into the US's legs therebye slowing the US down as it tries to do it's job (you know, policing the world). At least, that's the impression I got from redneck conservative pro-lifers in the Pennsylvania area.

So attaching "United Nations" to it would probably do little more than give them another thing to laugh at the UN about ("haha, look at those idiots! WTF is a human right, anyway?").  

[ntropi]

Kukushka

ntropi

You should add "--United Nations" to the bottom of it, to give it more credibility in the eyes of anti-choicers.

WARNING: BLATANT STEREOTYPES AHEAD

Most pro-lifers tend to be the ultra-concervative red neck types. And most of those types tend to think that the UN's sole job is to prance around ineffectually and stumble into the US's legs therebye slowing the US down as it tries to do it's job (you know, policing the world). At least, that's the impression I got from redneck conservative pro-lifers in the Pennsylvania area.

So attaching "United Nations" to it would probably do little more than give them another thing to laugh at the UN about ("haha, look at those idiots! WTF is a human right, anyway?").

You're right, they would laugh....  

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

Kukushka

ntropi

You should add "--United Nations" to the bottom of it, to give it more credibility in the eyes of anti-choicers.

WARNING: BLATANT STEREOTYPES AHEAD

Most pro-lifers tend to be the ultra-concervative red neck types. And most of those types tend to think that the UN's sole job is to prance around ineffectually and stumble into the US's legs therebye slowing the US down as it tries to do it's job (you know, policing the world). At least, that's the impression I got from redneck conservative pro-lifers in the Pennsylvania area.

So attaching "United Nations" to it would probably do little more than give them another thing to laugh at the UN about ("haha, look at those idiots! WTF is a human right, anyway?").

You're right. They see any source that isn't a pro-life group as liars and murderers. They think the whole world is against them.

So they tend to freak out if we cite a source like Planned Parenthood, NARAL, any medical association (because doctors get paid to perform abortions!), the UN, any feminist organization, or a women's health books such as Our Bodies, Ourselves.  

[SterileNeedles]

When I read the words 'forced pregnancy' I seem to interpret it differently from all of you. I see it as where someone is forcing a woman to become pregnant against her will, not forcing her to keep a pregnancy that is already there.

Man...I wish they'd be more clear about that. You can interpret it both ways...so which one is it?  

[Akhakhu]

SterileNeedles

When I read the words 'forced pregnancy' I seem to interpret it differently from all of you. I see it as where someone is forcing a woman to become pregnant against her will, not forcing her to keep a pregnancy that is already there.

In either case, the pregnancy is forced. Whether the conception was forced as well or not.

SterileNeedles

Man...I wish they'd be more clear about that. You can interpret it both ways...so which one is it?

I would assume both. It can be interpreted both ways because they mean both ways. Any time a woman is pregnancy against her will, it counts.