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 Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:00 pm
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LunarSong FallsInLoneliness So he isn't selfish because most of his actions were for Roxas? Wrong. He didn't want what was best for Roxas, he wanted to be with Roxas. That's all. Roxas wanted to be complete with Sora again, Roxas probably wanted a heart as well. It was made pretty clear that Sora needed to reunite with Roxas so the fact he tried to keep them apart for his own petty needs as a Nobody was pretty darn selfish.
XD, I thought that was cute too.
Roxas is his own person as Sora, they have different memories but the same heart. Weird, I know. But that seems to be how this Kingdom Hearts logic is working. With Sora Roxas can be complete, that is something Axel can never do for him. If I had no heart I think it's a safe bet that I wouldn't be able to careless if my best friend left me. If Axel truely cared about him he should have helped Roxas and hoped that even as Sora they could still be friends. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:22 pm
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Well, yah, Axel IS selfish.
Throughout the games, Axel only thought of himself...all he wanted was to be together with Roxas, and that's that. He didn't care whether or not Roxas was "incomplete" or w/e without Sora, he just wanted to be with him, and that's all he thought about...
To me, Axel was never really a member of Organization XIII because he never actually showed that he was devoted to them at all. Really, I think he was just there because Roxas was. He was very selfish because he only thought about Roxas being with him, he didn't really think about Roxas' feelings...
...but then again, Roxas didn't seem to think about Axel's feelings either. To me now, when I look back on when Roxas coldly tells Axel that "no one would miss me," that just...breaks my heart ;-; Reflecting on that scene, I can't imagine how Axel felt when he said that to him...it must've hurt. A lot.
So really, you can't blame Axel for being selfish at all. Even though Nobody's supposedly don't have hearts, I believe they still have feelings (they remember what emotions feel like, and I don't think you need a heart to feel them). Axel was so drawn to Roxas because, as Axel said himself, he made him feel like he had a heart...think about that.
Imagine if you didn't have a heart, and you're emotions were supposedly fake, or if you didn't have any at all. If you met someone who made you feel like you're emotions were true and that you had a full, loving, caring heart, wouldn't you go to any extent to keep that special person with you?
When Roxas made the decision to go and find his other (Sora), Axel knew that he would never see Roxas again if he found Sora and became one with him again. That's why he fought with Roxas in Twilight Town...he felt that, in order to keep Roxas from finding Sora, he needed to get him away from "DiZ" and Riku, because, obviously, they're plan was to have Roxas find Sora in order to awaken him. And since Roxas certainly wouldn't go with him willingly, he had to take him by force (sadly, to no avail).
Later in the game, then, Axel went and kidnapped Kairi and such in order to get his hands on Sora and turn him back into a heartless so that he could get Roxas back. Obviously, that's selfish, but you still have to understand how much Roxas must've meant to Axel to make him do that. Axel was going to play the part of the bad guy to get Roxas back...
But then, later, Axel helps Sora get to The World That Never Was and find Kairi, and he even sacrificed himself for Sora's purpose...Why would he do that? Why would he just give up his plans to get Roxas back in order to help Sora rescue Kairi? I think it's because he realized that what he was doing wasn't what Roxas wanted. He must've realized that Roxas wouldn't be satisfied or complete if he got him back. After all, even if he did succeed in getting Roxas back, Roxas was sure to eventually do the same thing he did before: abandon everything in order to find his true self, even his best friend...and so, in the end, he decided to help Sora instead.
Yes, Axel was a very selfish individual. He didn't care about anything but being with Roxas and being able to feel love for himself, or at least the closest thing to it that was possible for Nobody's to feel. I guess some people just can't seem to put themselves in his shoes...They can't seem to understand Axel's character, and that's the problem, (in my opinion).
But anyway, in the end, he must've realized that if he got Roxas back, Roxas would never be truly happy...Every Nobody's most desired wish is, apparently, to attain a heart, and Roxas was actually able to achieve that, and that's what Axel finally understood. And so, Axel gave up his own desire, and even his own "life," and helped Sora instead..and, surprisingly, in doing so, he ended up finding Roxas in Sora when they met in the Betwixt and Between.
So, in the end, even if Axel couldn't be together with Roxas, at least Roxas would be happy. And that's what Axel ended up finding out was the most important thing...Roxas's happiness.
...
Mmmmmph....*cries, sobs, weeps, bawls* crying crying crying
Mya...that's...really long...o.o Sorry. I just felt the need to get my thoughts out...aaaand I ended up making myself really sad...But yea, that's what I think. Long story short:
Yeah, Axel was a selfish character, but in the end, he realized what was the most important and did the most unselfish thing for the person who meant most to him. |
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:12 pm
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:31 pm
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~Taiki Kojima~ Well, yah, Axel IS selfish.
Throughout the games, Axel only thought of himself...all he wanted was to be together with Roxas, and that's that. He didn't care whether or not Roxas was "incomplete" or w/e without Sora, he just wanted to be with him, and that's all he thought about...
To me, Axel was never really a member of Organization XIII because he never actually showed that he was devoted to them at all. Really, I think he was just there because Roxas was. He was very selfish because he only thought about Roxas being with him, he didn't really think about Roxas' feelings...
...but then again, Roxas didn't seem to think about Axel's feelings either. To me now, when I look back on when Roxas coldly tells Axel that "no one would miss me," that just...breaks my heart ;-; Reflecting on that scene, I can't imagine how Axel felt when he said that to him...it must've hurt. A lot.
So really, you can't blame Axel for being selfish at all. Even though Nobody's supposedly don't have hearts, I believe they still have feelings (they remember what emotions feel like, and I don't think you need a heart to feel them). Axel was so drawn to Roxas because, as Axel said himself, he made him feel like he had a heart...think about that.
Imagine if you didn't have a heart, and you're emotions were supposedly fake, or if you didn't have any at all. If you met someone who made you feel like you're emotions were true and that you had a full, loving, caring heart, wouldn't you go to any extent to keep that special person with you?
When Roxas made the decision to go and find his other (Sora), Axel knew that he would never see Roxas again if he found Sora and became one with him again. That's why he fought with Roxas in Twilight Town...he felt that, in order to keep Roxas from finding Sora, he needed to get him away from "DiZ" and Riku, because, obviously, they're plan was to have Roxas find Sora in order to awaken him. And since Roxas certainly wouldn't go with him willingly, he had to take him by force (sadly, to no avail).
Later in the game, then, Axel went and kidnapped Kairi and such in order to get his hands on Sora and turn him back into a heartless so that he could get Roxas back. Obviously, that's selfish, but you still have to understand how much Roxas must've meant to Axel to make him do that. Axel was going to play the part of the bad guy to get Roxas back...
But then, later, Axel helps Sora get to The World That Never Was and find Kairi, and he even sacrificed himself for Sora's purpose...Why would he do that? Why would he just give up his plans to get Roxas back in order to help Sora rescue Kairi? I think it's because he realized that what he was doing wasn't what Roxas wanted. He must've realized that Roxas wouldn't be satisfied or complete if he got him back. After all, even if he did succeed in getting Roxas back, Roxas was sure to eventually do the same thing he did before: abandon everything in order to find his true self, even his best friend...and so, in the end, he decided to help Sora instead.
Yes, Axel was a very selfish individual. He didn't care about anything but being with Roxas and being able to feel love for himself, or at least the closest thing to it that was possible for Nobody's to feel. I guess some people just can't seem to put themselves in his shoes...They can't seem to understand Axel's character, and that's the problem, (in my opinion).
But anyway, in the end, he must've realized that if he got Roxas back, Roxas would never be truly happy...Every Nobody's most desired wish is, apparently, to attain a heart, and Roxas was actually able to achieve that, and that's what Axel finally understood. And so, Axel gave up his own desire, and even his own "life," and helped Sora instead..and, surprisingly, in doing so, he ended up finding Roxas in Sora when they met in the Betwixt and Between.
So, in the end, even if Axel couldn't be together with Roxas, at least Roxas would be happy. And that's what Axel ended up finding out was the most important thing...Roxas's happiness.
...
Mmmmmph....*cries, sobs, weeps, bawls* crying crying crying
Mya...that's...really long...o.o Sorry. I just felt the need to get my thoughts out...aaaand I ended up making myself really sad...But yea, that's what I think. Long story short:
Yeah, Axel was a selfish character, but in the end, he realized what was the most important and did the most unselfish thing for the person who meant most to him.
Oh yeah, sure. It sounds all fine and dandy when you put it like that but you're missing some points. Axel is number eight. He was a member of the Organization a good time longer than Roxas. And in Chain of Memories not only does Axel remain partially loyal to the Organization, (by having Sora rid them of their traitor), but he lets Sora get away. He clearly wasn't all to worried about losing Roxas to Sora at that moment. You saw the ending as Axel's way of letting Roxas have his happiness, I saw it as Axel realizing that he couldn't possibly win. |
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:36 pm
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Kefka-Daisuki-Desu! ~Taiki Kojima~ Well, yah, Axel IS selfish.
Throughout the games, Axel only thought of himself...all he wanted was to be together with Roxas, and that's that. He didn't care whether or not Roxas was "incomplete" or w/e without Sora, he just wanted to be with him, and that's all he thought about...
To me, Axel was never really a member of Organization XIII because he never actually showed that he was devoted to them at all. Really, I think he was just there because Roxas was. He was very selfish because he only thought about Roxas being with him, he didn't really think about Roxas' feelings...
...but then again, Roxas didn't seem to think about Axel's feelings either. To me now, when I look back on when Roxas coldly tells Axel that "no one would miss me," that just...breaks my heart ;-; Reflecting on that scene, I can't imagine how Axel felt when he said that to him...it must've hurt. A lot.
So really, you can't blame Axel for being selfish at all. Even though Nobody's supposedly don't have hearts, I believe they still have feelings (they remember what emotions feel like, and I don't think you need a heart to feel them). Axel was so drawn to Roxas because, as Axel said himself, he made him feel like he had a heart...think about that.
Imagine if you didn't have a heart, and you're emotions were supposedly fake, or if you didn't have any at all. If you met someone who made you feel like you're emotions were true and that you had a full, loving, caring heart, wouldn't you go to any extent to keep that special person with you?
When Roxas made the decision to go and find his other (Sora), Axel knew that he would never see Roxas again if he found Sora and became one with him again. That's why he fought with Roxas in Twilight Town...he felt that, in order to keep Roxas from finding Sora, he needed to get him away from "DiZ" and Riku, because, obviously, they're plan was to have Roxas find Sora in order to awaken him. And since Roxas certainly wouldn't go with him willingly, he had to take him by force (sadly, to no avail).
Later in the game, then, Axel went and kidnapped Kairi and such in order to get his hands on Sora and turn him back into a heartless so that he could get Roxas back. Obviously, that's selfish, but you still have to understand how much Roxas must've meant to Axel to make him do that. Axel was going to play the part of the bad guy to get Roxas back...
But then, later, Axel helps Sora get to The World That Never Was and find Kairi, and he even sacrificed himself for Sora's purpose...Why would he do that? Why would he just give up his plans to get Roxas back in order to help Sora rescue Kairi? I think it's because he realized that what he was doing wasn't what Roxas wanted. He must've realized that Roxas wouldn't be satisfied or complete if he got him back. After all, even if he did succeed in getting Roxas back, Roxas was sure to eventually do the same thing he did before: abandon everything in order to find his true self, even his best friend...and so, in the end, he decided to help Sora instead.
Yes, Axel was a very selfish individual. He didn't care about anything but being with Roxas and being able to feel love for himself, or at least the closest thing to it that was possible for Nobody's to feel. I guess some people just can't seem to put themselves in his shoes...They can't seem to understand Axel's character, and that's the problem, (in my opinion).
But anyway, in the end, he must've realized that if he got Roxas back, Roxas would never be truly happy...Every Nobody's most desired wish is, apparently, to attain a heart, and Roxas was actually able to achieve that, and that's what Axel finally understood. And so, Axel gave up his own desire, and even his own "life," and helped Sora instead..and, surprisingly, in doing so, he ended up finding Roxas in Sora when they met in the Betwixt and Between.
So, in the end, even if Axel couldn't be together with Roxas, at least Roxas would be happy. And that's what Axel ended up finding out was the most important thing...Roxas's happiness.
...
Mmmmmph....*cries, sobs, weeps, bawls* crying crying crying
Mya...that's...really long...o.o Sorry. I just felt the need to get my thoughts out...aaaand I ended up making myself really sad...But yea, that's what I think. Long story short:
Yeah, Axel was a selfish character, but in the end, he realized what was the most important and did the most unselfish thing for the person who meant most to him. Oh yeah, sure. It sounds all fine and dandy when you put it like that but you're missing some points. Axel is number eight. He was a member of the Organization a good time longer than Roxas. And in Chain of Memories not only does Axel remain partially loyal to the Organization, (by having Sora rid them of their traitor), but he lets Sora get away. He clearly wasn't all to worried about losing Roxas to Sora at that moment. You saw the ending as Axel's way of letting Roxas have his happiness, I saw it as Axel realizing that he couldn't possibly win.
eek Wow, no need to get so defensive. I'm just stating my opinion on the subject.
Yes, I realize that he is number 8, and that means he might have been in the Organization a lot longer than Roxas, but what's that prove? He could've joined because he thought it was cool or w/e, but that doesn't mean that eventually he wouldn't get tired of it and want to do things for himself.
And I also realize that, yes, he did act loyal to the Organization in CoM by having Sora rid them of the traitors, but it's not really said whether or not it was really him being loyal or him just doing it of his own accord. And you also have to remember, since Nobody's don't have hearts, they may be a bit...well...moody xP Therefore, Axel could possibly have a weird, fluctuating sense of "justice" when it comes to things.
Also, CoM was a whole year before KH2, and a lot of things can happen in a year. You certainly don't know when Axel could've decided upon things on his own. You're right, Axel might not have been worried about losing Roxas in CoM by letting Sora get away. He might've been loyal to the Organization during the time of KH1 and CoM, but what happened over that year-long span could've changed things. For instance, Axel might not have thought about what would happen in the future, with Roxas going off to find Sora and whatnot, etc. Axel may be selfish and devious, but it's not a fact that Axel's a genius, or a psychic for that matter.
And about the last part of your reply, I see it as both. 3nodding |
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:17 pm
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:52 pm
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Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:52 am
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:17 pm
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:52 pm
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:56 am
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:02 am
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Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:08 pm
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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:16 pm
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