Is it just me, or has square jumped the shark?

[Tanasha]

Warning, the following contains enough vitrol and frustration to kill small children and incite large flame wars.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.

---

I think Square started going insane once they made the switch to both 3D and PlayStation.

When they re-released FF6, they retconned Terra's hair for no apparant reason (But only in cutscenes. I guess she suffers from the dreaded Chromatic Cranium Curse). Then they added a godawful several-second fade filter for battle entrances durring which they didn't start preloading the battle, and completely forgot that they could load the entire game into the PSX's memory to get rid of loading times entirely. All their re-releases seem intent on milking as much money as they can from their old franchises, rather than giving their old games a proper reissue or work-over.

For FF7, they created a cliche hero who was devoid of personality, and was only notable for the absurdly large sword he used, his perpetual emoness, and his random psychotic episodes. They then had him run around killing people with a stereotypical angry black man (With a gun for an arm, OMFG 1337$@UC3) who happens to be the only black man on the planet, a codependant martial artist with breasts that are HUEG LIK XBOX, a girl from a bastardized china citystate where EVERYBODY is a ninja, no less than THREE cute talking animals, a chainsmoking angry drunk wifebeater, a 'daywalker' vampire, and the accursed Female Jesus #917.
Don't even get me started on it's plot, which makes about as much sense as Utena when you're free from psychotropic substances.
Further, the main villian is a huge wuss - he's Norman Bates starring as a wussified clone of an alien supersoldier. All he does is murder a bunch of unarmed people and a giant snake, steal an ancient weapon, and try to blow-up the planet for no good reason. The planet would have taken care of the problem on it's own, but with it's lifeforce being syphoned off to fuel all the magic and magical creatures and being devoured en-masse by midgar, it had little enough strength that a simple bishojo wuss, a few clones, and some half-dead cells of his long dead 'mother' were capable of keeping the planet too busy to protect itself. If your party wasn't a bunch of idiots, they'd have let the weapons go about their work killing-off the top ten list of thing keeping the planet restrained and saved themselves the trouble of having to kill Mrs. Bates.
Further, the end boss is a huge wuss compared to previous villians; FF1 had a time lord, most FF games had a villian with expansive and powerful armies (FF4, for instance, had an alien overlord who controlled every monster on both the planet and the moon), and FF6 had a villian who became both a god and the embodiment of magic (Creating life, reshaping the face of the world, willing into existance a mile-wide beam of destruction simply to torment the survivors, and etc, all while fueling everything magical in the entire universe.)

Advent Children is DBZ-esq milking their progressively exaggerated PowerCocks. The cinematography was horible, the plot contrived and full of more blatant religious symbolism than the Matrix trilogy, and the stupid lone wolf symbology is overused an incorrect. Lone wolves are wolves who are abandoned by their pack to die, and live short, unhappy lives as they grow progressively weaker from their inability to hunt well enough alone to keep themselves fed - to portray them as strong, solitary creatures who are aloof from normal wolf society is as misguided as it is stupid.

They then gave Cloud a dye job, hands, leg implants, and a scar (OMFG B4D4555!), and named him "Squall". FF8 was a crime against humanity, and even those twisted few who liked it at first realized that square had been using violent sodomy as a means of 'convincing' their writers to produce a so-called 'plot' as fast as possible once they got to the parts about "Time compression" and "GFs live inside your brain and eat your memories, causing the entire cast completely forgot that they all spent their entire childhoods as best friends at the orphanage that Evil Chick #38 just happened to run". The cast was equally horrid: Irving, the cowboy in a world with no cows, horses, or really any place where the idea would make sense. Rinoa, the b*****d child of the codependant martial artist, Ninja chick, and Female Jesus #917, who also happens to be heavily into beastiality. Selphie, who snorted so much crack throughout the game that it's amazing she's not a vegetable. Quistis, who is a dominatrix schoolmarm. Zell, who is a rapist and a murderer.
It had two saving graces - Laguna's theme (which you get to hear on two occasions, and then spend the rest of the game waiting in vain to hear again), and the airship, which contained one of the dumbest boss battle puzzles in the history of video games.

FF9 was pretty good, barring a few annoyances and mistakes. Kuja suffered from the prettyboy effect, but he gets points for single-handedly rendering a planet devoid of life.

FFX had FAR too much bitching about how their lives were so horrible that you really couldn't feel so bad about all the people dying. The voice acting in the english release was also horrid to the extent that many wished they could reach out and gag the ones that were bad enough to cause aural bleeding. Also, it's unlockables were designed by sadists, and there was no choice to beat your ultimate weapon out of that damned chocobo lady. It's sequal was an abomination to the series.

FF11 is just an excuse to soak the MMOG market for all it's worth.

FF12 has yet to be released, so I don't know how it will turn out.

---

So what do you think? Has Square passed their prime?  

[Kohki]

They stole the plot of Skies of Arcadia 2 for FF12, so it's gotta be good.  

[Tahpenes]

Wow.... What maggots fell down onto your bed and died today, Tboss?

xd

Tanasha

Don't even get me started on it's plot, which makes about as much sense as Utena when you're free from psychotropic substances.

Utena makes plenty of sense, and as you know I'm always free from psychotropic substances.

Therefore the basis of your entire argument fails. Haha! I win teh interweb!

< / chatterbox>


I couldn't manage to get through FF8, and I have no particular desire to defend that game.

However, I think you're being unfair to the cast of VII. Part of the point of the game was how people set themselves up to be those stereotypes; Cloud's personality was entirely based on what he thought a Soldier should be, and in the end he had to work around that and find something more meaningful. Red XIII, Barret, Yuffie, Cid, Vincent, and Tifa each went through the same thing at some point in their own way.


As for FFX...c'mon, they even named the thing Sin, which is practically begging people to compare the perception of constant suffering in Spira with the same perception articulatd by so many religions on our own world. "OMG the world sucks and all is suffering you need X to deliver yourself from it."

The English voice acting sucked, yes... "I have....become...a..summoner...!" But I don't think that is a reason to dismiss the game.


Square hasn't passed its prime; it's just experimenting with the new medium, and it's up against much fiercer competition than it was before. I'm sure that if FF6 came out nowadays with modern graphics and so forth, people would be saying it was boring and uninspired.  

[Kohki]

Tahpenes

The English voice acting sucked, yes... "I have....become...a..summoner...!" But I don't think that is a reason to dismiss the game.

It's voice-acting only had one saving grace:

"Stay away from the summoner!"

XD  

[Tanasha]

Tahpenes

Wow.... What maggots fell down onto your bed and died today, Tboss?

xd

Advent Children.

Tahpenes

Tanasha

Don't even get me started on it's plot, which makes about as much sense as Utena when you're free from psychotropic substances.

Utena makes plenty of sense, and as you know I'm always free from psychotropic substances.

The movie?

Tahpenes

However, I think you're being unfair to the cast of VII. Part of the point of the game was how people set themselves up to be those stereotypes; Cloud's personality was entirely based on what he thought a Soldier should be, and in the end he had to work around that and find something more meaningful. Red XIII, Barret, Yuffie, Cid, Vincent, and Tifa each went through the same thing at some point in their own way.

I have no idea how Barret's backstory explains how he's the only darker-than-a-tanned-viking person in the game. Perhaps Shinra came to power on the back of some kind of racial supremacy movement and he's the only survivor? Is that the REAL reason why Shinra was after him long ago? Is that the REAL reason he started a terrorist organization? It would seem to fit in with the rest of the game fine... Or perhaps Barret is just a mutant.

I also fail to see how a society comprised entirely of ninjas would function at all, and how they could possibly lose a war against Shinra's army of nerf rifles if said society DID happen to work for some reason. Further, Yuffie's development consisted of seasickness and fighting her way to being a ninja master.

Further, Cloud's entire personality is that he HAS no personality - he was just a machine doing a job, and under his mask of apathy was an angsty psychotic.
Heck, check Gaia for members with names that are phonetically similar to "Cloud Strife", and look at all the mindless drones who blather on about how he's better than every other fictional character ever created. As if he wasn't bad enough to start with, he's also a standard replacement to actual thought and creativity in RPs. Square latched onto that, and dumped his old buster sword so that he could appear in everything new except AC with the sword they stole from Sagara Sanosuke, complete with wrappings.
In AC, of course, they replaced his sword with a "multi-sword" that defied logic, physics, and any semblance of usability. On a completely unrelated note, they could fly and had psychic powers.
Further, in AC we see that he hasn't changed one damn bit since FFVII; the entire damn point of the movie is that he finally shows signs of maybe, possibly, HOPEFULLY developing his personality.

Cid IS an angry wifebeater. I really don't know how much more there is to say here.

Red XIII was the most developed and believable one in the entire line-up

Vincent, as near as I can tell, was drastically altered late into the game when some of the Japanese development staff got their hands on some of the promotional materials for Hellsing. Previously, they were looking to make him a chemist and/or detective.

Tifa's personality was defined by her latching onto the last surviving member of her life in Nibelheim (With the possible exception of her mentor, who's fate we never learn), and trying in vain to get him to remember his past life.

Tahpenes

As for FFX...c'mon, they even named the thing Sin, which is practically begging people to compare the perception of constant suffering in Spira with the same perception articulatd by so many religions on our own world. "OMG the world sucks and all is suffering you need X to deliver yourself from it."

"Sledgehammer, meet face. Now, I want you to spend lots of time getting aquainted, as you'll be running into each other every five or six seconds."

Tahpenes

The English voice acting sucked, yes... "I have....become...a..summoner...!" But I don't think that is a reason to dismiss the game.

I didn't dismiss the game; there are a great many good-to-great games which are painful to actually try to play. Morrowind, for example.

Tahpenes

Square hasn't passed its prime; it's just experimenting with the new medium, and it's up against much fiercer competition than it was before.

It's been 'experimenting' with the Z-axis for a decade, and that doesn't excuse the dramatic drop in plot and writing quality.

Tahpenes

I'm sure that if FF6 came out nowadays with modern graphics and so forth, people would be saying it was boring and uninspired.

There's a difference though. In FF6, the characters grew as the game progressed, and they were actually interesting. The actual dialog was a bit simplistic and cheezy in places, but the plot was well done and you can tell that they actually enjoyed making the game.

I suppose what I'm really saying is that in a good game, the characters grow over the course of the game and become better or worse in accordance with the situation. In FF7 they don't change so much as you find out why they act the way they do.  

[Chibicid]

Kohki

Tahpenes

The English voice acting sucked, yes... "I have....become...a..summoner...!" But I don't think that is a reason to dismiss the game.

It's voice-acting only had one saving grace:

"Stay away from the summoner!"

XD

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My favorite line EVAR!  

[Ayame]

Chibicid

Kohki

Tahpenes

The English voice acting sucked, yes... "I have....become...a..summoner...!" But I don't think that is a reason to dismiss the game.

It's voice-acting only had one saving grace:

"Stay away from the summoner!"

XD

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My favorite line EVAR!

Lol, don't even get me started on the FFX bloopers xd ("I am Seymour Butts, and my voice is super-gay like every other voice actar in this game; but you....get to listen to us: mwuaahahaha....silly")

The TV series of Utena made sense to me (at least the episodes I've watched so far); I refuse to see the movie because of the horror stories I've heard. But, ah, I won't get into the anime fandom here so... sweatdrop

But this made me realize that Square seems to be going for the eye-candy (aka graphics) rather than a deep, intricate plotline of the old FFs from the NES and SNES since moving to the 3D graphics world although I do like FF8 *hides*. [Haha, don't ask me why, I just do...probably since it was the first FF game I've played rather than watched; and the music is awesome]

Seriously, though...how many times can you save and re-save the world? wink I'm just probably being optimistic and open-minded, but that's just the way I am sweatdrop . We'll see how FF12 goes since it seems they're going back to their dark side but with such a "cheerful" wimpy looking character like Vaan, I'm not so sure (I like Ashe's story background more biggrin )  

[Saoszuc]

Ayame

The TV series of Utena made sense to me (at least the episodes I've watched so far); I refuse to see the movie because of the horror stories I've heard. But, ah, I won't get into the anime fandom here so... sweatdrop

The movie made so much more sense than the show, in that it was much more obviously allegorical. Nothing can beat dissonant piano, Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku, and car wash in the sky. heart

Ayame

Seriously, though...how many times can you save and re-save the world? wink I'm just probably being optimistic and open-minded, but that's just the way I am sweatdrop . We'll see how FF12 goes since it seems they're going back to their dark side but with such a "cheerful" wimpy looking character like Vaan, I'm not so sure (I like Ashe's story background more biggrin )

Saving the world over and over is fine. The real issue is: is it just saving the world, or is there a story to be told with it? I, IV - VII, IX, and X all had solid stories - either plot-, event-, or character-driven - and I haven't played or seen enough of II and II to judge, but given the overweening popularity of VIII and XI, I have a feeling that Square is ready to sell out once and for all. If not with XII (set in the same world as TA? Gimme a break, as in petrify me and hide the Softs), then with XIII.  

[Chibicid]

As far as story/characters are concerned, I've been disappointed in Square. But honestly, setting everything up for comparison against FFVI leaves little room for good. I mean...come on. Square has yet to match the level of character/plot development. You can't expect them to everytime, though I will admit it's gone downhill. I'm very optimistic about XII (mainly cause there are two main characters, one of which is a female and not a pretty boy). If not that, then XIII looks pretty damn kickass. I love me some female leads. whee  

[Ayame]

Chibicid

If not that, then XIII looks pretty damn kickass. I love me some female leads. whee

Lol, looks like Cid likes female leads a lot xd . I am curious about the gameplay for XIII. Running through midst battle, casting a Stop spell and firing a Fire spell at the same time? That looked awesome 3nodding [Though, I'm still not going to force myself to get a PS3 when it comes out...$500-600 can pay half of my laptop already sweatdrop )  

[Tanasha]

It could pay for ALL of my laptop, with enough change left-over to buy a game or two.

As much as I want to play games like MGS4, I'm going to have to content myself with the awesomeness of the Revolution until the PS3's price collapses into itself and causes a black hole from which no hope for Sony's future can escape, and you can pick them up for $200 or less.  

[Kohki]

Tanasha

It could pay for ALL of my laptop, with enough change left-over to buy a game or two.

As much as I want to play games like MGS4, I'm going to have to content myself with the awesomeness of the Revolution until the PS3's price collapses into itself and causes a black hole from which no hope for Sony's future can escape, and you can pick them up for $200 or less.

By that point, you'll be seeing brand-new PS2's in the 'buy 1 get one FREE' bargain bin in your local car wash.  

[Saoszuc]

Man, can you imagine a FF game designed for the Wii? I think I'd Wii my pants. I wouldn't care if the plot was simply "Sephiroth and boobs". Paiyow.  

[Chibicid]

LOLZ @ "Wii my pants".

Eh...I am a fan of female leads. Which is rather amusing if you know me. Har. But I dunno...I guess it's just different from the norm? And all the male leads from VII - XII I've hated? Haha.

Oooh...and I read today that for XII, the design team felt that there was no main character; that it wasn't designed as such, and the battle system makes it so that you can select any character to be the main one. Plus, you can get rid of Vaan once you get the 4th character (effing awesome...).

As far as PS3 goes...I'm gonna wait probably for a bit til the price drops a lil. Or til I can't take not playing XIII anymore. xd  

[Ayame]

Ah, that's interesting about the XII concept....

Knowing myself I'll probably buy a PS3 as soon as XIII comes out (which isn't until a while anyway) sweatdrop