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I think that toutching dulls the intimate and closeness a man feels with his wife once he marries her. If he's used to toutching girls all the time, then it dulls the sense of toutch with his wife.

Some people think it doesn't effect a man, but please, that is just stupid. Everything effects you, so I'm tired of hearing "but I'm not toutching them for sexual contact". That has nothing to do with it. The sense of toutch is a holy and great thing, making closenses between a man and his wife ("and they shall combine, and become one flesh"). If you feel that toutching someone from the opposite sex doesn't effect you in any way, then that just proves the sense has been dulled in a way...

I beleive that if your training in karate then it would be okay to spar with a male. But if your like tackling them and ending up in a leg lock then I would start to worry sweatdrop .

I beleive if there is no-one else, I wouldn't stand by and not do CPR. That would be just stupid.

As for toutch before marriage, that depends on the couple 3nodding . As for me, it doesnt bother me.. at least once we'd be engaged rolleyes .

YAY! Finally, a good discussion! Just one note before I say my opinion- this is a logical, opinionated discussion. That means respect everybody's opinion, no matter what you may think yourself.

Anyway, onto my little opinionated bit:
I apologize if this offends anybody, but this is just my view; it may not agree with your own, feel free to disregard it. I do not intend for this to; I'm sorry if it comes across as such.

I see the opposite point that touching does dull the intimate closeness a man feels with his wife, but we were given and made with the sense of touch for a reason. Say you touch a piece of wood, or a cloak made of silk. Is that wrong? Does it dull the "intimate closeness" of touch? Not all touch is intimate; think about food- are you being intimate with food by eating a chicken leg? I would hope not... xp

I am not saying that it's okay to just go around giving people hugs all the time or fondling a boyfriend/girlfriend, but there are some things that aren't that bad. If a guy puts his arm around his girlfriend's shoulder, I see nothing wrong with that; it is simply a gesture of kindness and caring. Sometimes people cannot say what they want to by words alone, so body language is important, and sometimes simple gestures like that are important.

Again, I want to make it clear; I'm not saying that guys should go around touching people-that would wrong. Nor am I saying that one should go around touching people all the time; I'm just saying not all of it is bad.

I feel proud- I've sparked a question in discussion! xd
I'm sorry- I'm really biased here, but I see nothing wrong with touching while doing training. Duh, I'm not about to go around tackling guys and like straddling them or something; eek not a chance! (I don't do things like that, ever!! eek )

But anyway, back to my original thought, if I'm doing takedowns on a guy by kicking their knee or something, I don't see anything wrong with that. It's not as though either of us have sexual intentions at all, and I am simply learning how to defend myself. As much as I hate to admit it, being the feminist I am, there are not as many girls as guys in karate, and only a few that I know, if any, that spar or know takedowns, etc. Therefore, the only logical choice would be to practice on a male. Most have their little "macho" thing going on, and they don't feel pain as easily (or at least admit it) Though there are some things I wouldn't even do on them!

So, basically, the cliffnote version for anybody too lazy to read all of this, I don't think all touching in training is wrong.

Touching during CPR, in my opinion, is absolutely wrong not to do. I'm not about to let somebody die while I stand there and watch, doing nothing about it. I think there's something in the Torah about doing whatever you can to save another's life; I don't know, though- please correct me if I'm wrong.

hmm...touch before marriage...depends on what it is. Like I stated earlier, I see nothing wrong with a guy putting his arm around his girlfriend or something. I'm probably going to get yelled at for this, but I think if a girlfriend and boyfriend are serious about each other, then a kiss or something isn't a bad thing. I'm STRONGLY opposed to sex before marriage, though, or anything close to that at all. "fooling around" would also be a definite no, in my opinion.
um....I guess I'd just mostly agree with Nathan on this one.

I think that's about it, and again, I apologize if this offends anybody sweatdrop

I'm a very physically communicative person IRL... I hug my friends, male and female, to communicate through body language. I find that it doesn't dull anything, that in fact, the more I touch others in a friendly way, the better it feels.

You're right, it AFFECTS things... but, I'm not so sure it dulls things. I touch people of the opposite sex, and they are JUST my friends. I touch my boyfriend, and it's completely different. It is possible to seperate the kinds of touch.

I don't think you should FONDLE everyone... but, there is no harm, in my opinion, in hugging the opposite sex. It is a holy thing, because a hug brings comfort and is a sign of caring. Helping your fellow. You are commanded to love your fellow, and I show it through a hug.

As for touch before marriage... I don't know. I'm not officially engaged to my boyfriend, but that's only because our parents won't approve of us getting engaged right now, so I consider us engaged. Then... touching is good... before that... we didn't go anywhere near as far. As for other people, it's your own choice, whatever's right for you.

nathan just because you go to an all boy school doesn't me the rest of us do go to same sex schools

i run into guys all the time and i'm always poking kyle and mike
but there is a difference in the way i'd touch the man i loe and the way i touch them.
and i'm not talking sexually i mean i poke kyle in the side no feelings or emtions are brought forth
but i touched the man i loved cheek or something i'd feel all warm and fuzzy and such all the other emtions of love that make you wanna vomit up your heart. lol

there is different ways, without touch the soul would die.

Then why don't you enlighten us ignorant ones?

(Yes, that was mostly sarcasm. But, seriously, Zonko, what's the point, then?)

darkpheonix said it first i think. i just gave an example from my life lol

lol andyou know nathan this subject just opened up a can of worms for you right 4laugh

Zonko- feel free to give us your opinion; it is always enlightening to hear the other side (honestly-no sarcasm here), and your arguments are for the most part very logical and well thought out, with good contentions. 3nodding

Just don't phrase it in a way that makes people upset 3nodding blaugh


and a random note, we might get a lot of long posts here, so please try not to quote the entire thing, and only the few sentences that you are referring to xd sweatdrop