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| When is divorce acceptable? |
| Never |
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13% |
[ 2 ] |
| In the case of adultery only |
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33% |
[ 5 ] |
| Only in extreme circumstances, such as adultery or abuse |
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20% |
[ 3 ] |
| On a case-by-case basis; there is no blanket rule |
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26% |
[ 4 ] |
| Whenever a couple feels like it |
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6% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 15 |
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 Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:50 am
How do you feel about it?
I was raised in a Catholic family, so "divorce" was pretty much a dirty word. According to Catholic teachings, divorce is only acceptable, or even viable, in cases of adultery and nothing else.
Personally, I've always felt that the Catholic view of divorce is a little extreme. I mean, I'd at least tack on "abusive spouse" as an acceptable reason to get divorced.
Ultimately, I feel that if people aren't happy together, they shouldn't have to stay married.
That being said...I do think marriage is something that should be taken very seriously, and it really makes me cringe to see people rushing into marriage at a young age, and/or when they just haven't been together long enough to really know each other. I think you should only even consider getting married if you're as certain as you can be that the relationship is something that will last a lifetime. Take the time to do it right the first time, y'know?
You're not even fully emotionally developed until you're about 25, which is something to consider. The first year of a relationship is often the easiest because you're still in that "honeymoon" phase where everything is new and exciting, so that's another thing to consider. I'm not saying your marriage is doomed to fail if you got married before 25 and/or within the first year of your relationship, but...well, again, what's the rush? You're talking about being with this person for the rest of your life. That's not something to be rushed into. You may be zomg so in luuuuuv when you're 18 and having been with your partner for six months may seem like a long time, but are you sure you're going to feel the same way in ten years?
Of course, there can always be unforeseen complications in the future, and that's why divorce exists, but I definitely think that couples should do everything in their power to make sure that their marriage is successful before they tie the knot.
Thoughts?
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:50 am
In Islam God dislikes divorce but still allows really desperate family's to do it
The Noble Verse reads as follows:
"O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods: And fear God your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set by God: and any who transgresses the limits of God, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if perchance God will bring about thereafter some new situation. (The Noble Quran, 65:1)"
"At the end of the (prescribed) period, either hold back your women (in wedlock) lawfully, according to the well-known (prescribed) manner, or make the divorce final in accordance with the well known (prescribed) way. Take two of your fair minded (and respected) men as your witnesses. (Oh witnesses)! Bear the witness truthfully for the sake of Allah! Those who believe in Allah, and the life-to-come, are hereby being asked to heed. Allah will provide a way out for the one who fears Him! (The Noble Quran, 65:2)"
As far as the wife's maintenance and child support and child custody, everything remains: "For divorced women Maintenance (should be provided) On a reasonable (scale). This is a duty On the righteous. (The Noble Quran, 2:241)"
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:57 am
SinfulGuillotine How do you feel about it? I was raised in a Catholic family, so "divorce" was pretty much a dirty word. According to Catholic teachings, divorce is only acceptable, or even viable, in cases of adultery and nothing else. ? My view, and one I take from scriptures, is that divorce is only acceptable in the case of infidelity. Even then, that isn't how it should be. Even the Bible will go so far as to say that "It was not always so from the beginning." After all, Christ does not divorce his bride, the church, when we commit spiritual adultery. Why should I be any different with my wife? Am I above my master? No. Quote: Ultimately, I feel that if people aren't happy together, they shouldn't have to stay married. It's easy to see how people get to that point, but the Bible never says "Obey me unless it makes you unhappy. Then you can do what you want." Quote: That being said...I do think marriage is something that should be taken very seriously, and it really makes me cringe to see people rushing into marriage at a young age, and/or when they just haven't been together long enough to really know each other. I think you should only even consider getting married if you're as certain as you can be that the relationship is something that will last a lifetime. Take the time to do it right the first time, y'know? Well sure. After all, I did stand before God and a room full of about 150-200 people and commit myself to one woman. If I had any doubt that it wasn't going to work, I would have never even proposed. Quote: You're not even fully emotionally developed until you're about 25, which is something to consider. The first year of a relationship is often the easiest because you're still in that "honeymoon" phase where everything is new and exciting, so that's another thing to consider. I'm not saying your marriage is doomed to fail if you got married before 25 and/or within the first year of your relationship, but...well, again, what's the rush? You're talking about being with this person for the rest of your life. That's not something to be rushed into. The first year of our marriage hasn't really been very honeymoon-y. I moved her 2000 miles away from her friends and family and then another 1800 miles away from that place about two months later. And then another 200 miles four months after that. Now we're looking at picking up yet again. Not to mention that I spend at the very least six months of every two to three years in places she can't go. During that four month period, I worked 14 hours, five days a week, and another four or five on whatever day during the weekend. The "rush" was that I knew this was coming, and she didn't want to be apart anymore. I didn't either. Have you ever loved someone so much that you miss them when they leave, even though you know you'll see them again in a few hours? Now make that months on end, even a year or two, and imagine where we were. To be frank, the wait until 25 thing is a load of crap. It depends entirely on you and the other person and how much you want to make God a part of your relationship. Without him, we wouldn't even have gotten through the first separation let alone where we are now. With God as our foundation, we've made it through some stuff most people don't even know can happen to people. Quote: You may be zomg so in luuuuuv when you're 18 and having been with your partner for six months may seem like a long time, but are you sure you're going to feel the same way in ten years? I was 16 when I proposed to her. I didn't even have enough money to buy a ring, and my situation isn't so much better now. We went to the doctor a while ago. Some stuff came back, and for the sake of privacy, I'll keep what happened to myself, but later on, she asked me if I wanted a divorce. The answer was, and always will be, no. Is it hard? Yeah. Does it suck? Sometimes. But I never ever regret getting married. I've been with this woman for five years. Not all of that was us married, but still. Five years. The next five will bring some crazy changes, I know, but I'll still love her. Quote: Of course, there can always be unforeseen complications in the future, and that's why divorce exists, but I definitely think that couples should do everything in their power to make sure that their marriage is successful before they tie the knot. Divorce exists because of the hardness of men's hearts. It exists because people would rather throw things away than make them work. It exists because people don't value what God is and what he does and what he has commanded. To be honest, I'm incredibly frustrated with the condescending way people approach my wife and I when they find out how old we are. The pity in their voice. My own dad told me I would have my heart broken about four or five times before I found somebody I would want to be with, and that was not so long after I got engaged. They don't know what we've been through, or where we're going, and they don't care. I've been to more marital counseling, more marriage retreats, more individual counseling than is reasonable, but does that matter? No. Of course not.Just poor, dumb VKFox and his young, dumb wife. They expect us to fail, and they can go fly a kite.
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:35 am
VKFox: This is why I specifically said "I'm not saying that just because you got married before 25 and/or within the first year of your relationship means that your marriage is doomed to fail." I realise that everyone, and every relationship, is different, and there is no blanket rule for what makes a successful marriage. I simply stated that age and duration of relationship are things to consider.
I first became involved with my partner when I was 17, and I'm 31 now and we're still together and very happy together, so I'm the last person to look down my nose at young love, or say that relationships started at a young age will never work out.
So stop acting like my original post is some sort of personal attack, because it's not.
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:56 pm
I will say that I feel that if there is one universally acceptable reason to get divorced, it's not adultery, it's abuse. I could get over being cheated on, but being forced to stay with an abusive partner would drive me to suicide.
I've been cheated on, and I've been abused, and trust me, next to being beaten, raped, and belittled by someone who professes to love you, infidelity feels like a paper cut.
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Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:29 pm
VK Fox SinfulGuillotine How do you feel about it? I was raised in a Catholic family, so "divorce" was pretty much a dirty word. According to Catholic teachings, divorce is only acceptable, or even viable, in cases of adultery and nothing else. ? My view, and one I take from scriptures, is that divorce is only acceptable in the case of infidelity. Even then, that isn't how it should be. Even the Bible will go so far as to say that "It was not always so from the beginning." After all, Christ does not divorce his bride, the church, when we commit spiritual adultery. Why should I be any different with my wife? Am I above my master? No. Quote: Ultimately, I feel that if people aren't happy together, they shouldn't have to stay married. It's easy to see how people get to that point, but the Bible never says "Obey me unless it makes you unhappy. Then you can do what you want." Quote: That being said...I do think marriage is something that should be taken very seriously, and it really makes me cringe to see people rushing into marriage at a young age, and/or when they just haven't been together long enough to really know each other. I think you should only even consider getting married if you're as certain as you can be that the relationship is something that will last a lifetime. Take the time to do it right the first time, y'know? Well sure. After all, I did stand before God and a room full of about 150-200 people and commit myself to one woman. If I had any doubt that it wasn't going to work, I would have never even proposed. I just wanted to say, I love you, man. That was really encouraging. =) Quote: You're not even fully emotionally developed until you're about 25, which is something to consider. The first year of a relationship is often the easiest because you're still in that "honeymoon" phase where everything is new and exciting, so that's another thing to consider. I'm not saying your marriage is doomed to fail if you got married before 25 and/or within the first year of your relationship, but...well, again, what's the rush? You're talking about being with this person for the rest of your life. That's not something to be rushed into. The first year of our marriage hasn't really been very honeymoon-y. I moved her 2000 miles away from her friends and family and then another 1800 miles away from that place about two months later. And then another 200 miles four months after that. Now we're looking at picking up yet again. Not to mention that I spend at the very least six months of every two to three years in places she can't go. During that four month period, I worked 14 hours, five days a week, and another four or five on whatever day during the weekend. The "rush" was that I knew this was coming, and she didn't want to be apart anymore. I didn't either. Have you ever loved someone so much that you miss them when they leave, even though you know you'll see them again in a few hours? Now make that months on end, even a year or two, and imagine where we were. To be frank, the wait until 25 thing is a load of crap. It depends entirely on you and the other person and how much you want to make God a part of your relationship. Without him, we wouldn't even have gotten through the first separation let alone where we are now. With God as our foundation, we've made it through some stuff most people don't even know can happen to people. Quote: You may be zomg so in luuuuuv when you're 18 and having been with your partner for six months may seem like a long time, but are you sure you're going to feel the same way in ten years? I was 16 when I proposed to her. I didn't even have enough money to buy a ring, and my situation isn't so much better now. We went to the doctor a while ago. Some stuff came back, and for the sake of privacy, I'll keep what happened to myself, but later on, she asked me if I wanted a divorce. The answer was, and always will be, no. Is it hard? Yeah. Does it suck? Sometimes. But I never ever regret getting married. I've been with this woman for five years. Not all of that was us married, but still. Five years. The next five will bring some crazy changes, I know, but I'll still love her. Quote: Of course, there can always be unforeseen complications in the future, and that's why divorce exists, but I definitely think that couples should do everything in their power to make sure that their marriage is successful before they tie the knot. Divorce exists because of the hardness of men's hearts. It exists because people would rather throw things away than make them work. It exists because people don't value what God is and what he does and what he has commanded. To be honest, I'm incredibly frustrated with the condescending way people approach my wife and I when they find out how old we are. The pity in their voice. My own dad told me I would have my heart broken about four or five times before I found somebody I would want to be with, and that was not so long after I got engaged. They don't know what we've been through, or where we're going, and they don't care. I've been to more marital counseling, more marriage retreats, more individual counseling than is reasonable, but does that matter? No. Of course not.Just poor, dumb VKFox and his young, dumb wife. They expect us to fail, and they can go fly a kite.
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:14 pm
SinfulGuillotine I will say that I feel that if there is one universally acceptable reason to get divorced, it's not adultery, it's abuse. If we're going by things that appeal to human reasoning and feelings sure, but that's not what God's word says. No one will find a single verse supporting divorce based on abuse (in fact, you find examples of the contrary; honoring your vows no matter how foolish and hurtful they are i.e. Judges 11:29-40). You're suppose to avoid fellowshipping with abusive people in the first place and if people were obedient to that, they wouldn't even be close friends with abusive people, let alone married to them. Once you make a vow it's not suppose to be broken. That's how serious oaths are suppose to be; even if it ends in death, we need to carry out God's will (i.e. Jesus, most of the apostles, etc...), abused and eventually martyred. It ended well for Abigail at least (1 Sam 25), but the point isn't whether we survive or not: it's whether we cared more about God's will than surviving. Quote: Luke 14:26 (NIV) 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters— yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. Luke 17:33 (NIV) 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. Like Daniel, willing to be thrown into a fiery furnace rather than bow down to worship Idols; it's the same attitude we should have concerning breaking an oath. Quote: Daniel 3:16-18 (NIV) 16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us[a] from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.” Footnotes: a. Daniel 3:17 Or If the God we serve is able to deliver us, then he will deliver us from the blazing furnace and edited
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Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:40 pm
I agree that marriage should never be looked at lightly and that it's a contract a person signs in the presence of God. I also believe that, ideally, marriage should last forever.
That being said, it's not up to anybody but the people involved in the marriage to decide whether or not the marriage is a good one. My partner's ex-wife divorced him for reasons I might never completely understand, but from what I gather, the decision was made by her quite suddenly, and was carried out quickly. For me, divorcing my partner on a whim is something I would never do, but who am I to decide whether or not it was the right decision for them to get divorced? Obviously it turned out well for me and him in the end. We came together over pretty impossible circumstances. I truly believe that God directed us towards one another. Divorce made that possible.
Which I honestly have some mixed feelings towards. But all the same, I think that if a divorce happens, it's always a good thing, because that means that they love themselves enough to better circumstances in their life that they feel aren't good. I'm a child of divorce, and I view my parent's divorce as a positive thing. They're both better people now than when they were married. It's not ideal by any means and I certainly hope that it never happens to me. But for some people, it's very necessary.
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High-functioning Werewolf
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:15 pm
I think that there are situations in which divorce makes sense, but I also think that it is over used in today's society. I remember when I was in high school, I was one of very few people who had parents who were still married (they have since unfortunately divorced which was very hard on me, despite being in college at the time).
Many times nowadays when a couple get married it seems like after the first big fight after the honeymoon stage wears off, divorce happens, especially in the media, which is why I try not to pay attention to media.
Marriage is hard work and both partners have to agree to this hard work before hand, I think what so many do is think that it will be sunshine and rainbows then find out it's not and go looking for the sunshine and rainbows instead of trying to work things out and just talking about the situation.
Despite all the opinion I have here, I'm not married, I plan on getting there, but I'm waiting for my partner to be ready for that as well. It is something that we both take seriously and want to make sure that we are emotionally ready
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:21 pm
real eyes realize If we're going by things that appeal to human reasoning and feelings sure, but that's not what God's word says. No one will find a single verse supporting divorce based on abuse (in fact, you find examples of the contrary; honoring your vows no matter how foolish and hurtful they are i.e. Judges 11:29-40). You're suppose to avoid fellowshipping with abusive people in the first place and if people were obedient to that, they wouldn't even be close friends with abusive people, let alone married to them. Once you make a vow it's not suppose to be broken. That's how serious oaths are suppose to be; even if it ends in death, we need to carry out God's will (i.e. Jesus, most of the apostles, etc...), abused and eventually martyred. It ended well for Abigail at least (1 Sam 25), but the point isn't whether we survive or not: it's whether we cared more about God's will than surviving. Nobody wants to be yoked to an abusive partner. And abusers are rarely abusers at first. It takes months, sometimes years, for a person's abusive behaviour to surface. That's how most people end up in abusive relationships, not because they're stupid or just plain masochistic. My abusive partner was extremely generous and charming the first few months of our relationship. Obviously if I'd been able to see the future, I wouldn't have become involved with him at all, but I couldn't. For a time, all I saw was a charming man who seemed to care deeply about me. That was the person I thought he was. Time proved otherwise. What if children are involved? What if your spouse (be they the biological parent of the children involved or not) is abusing your children? To turn a blind eye to the suffering of your children because of a vow that you, not they, made, is fairly heinous in my opinion. I am, admittedly, understandably biased on this issue, but I wouldn't compare being in an abusive relationship/marriage to being a martyr for your faith. You're just being a martyr for a psychopath, and that's not worth it. I wouldn't hold anyone to such a standard, and frankly, I think to do so is wrong, and undermines the very idea of marriage.
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Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:15 am
SinfulGuillotine Nobody wants to be yoked to an abusive partner. And abusers are rarely abusers at first. It takes months, sometimes years, for a person's abusive behaviour to surface. That's how most people end up in abusive relationships, not because they're stupid or just plain masochistic. My abusive partner was extremely generous and charming the first few months of our relationship. Obviously if I'd been able to see the future, I wouldn't have become involved with him at all, but I couldn't. For a time, all I saw was a charming man who seemed to care deeply about me. That was the person I thought he was. Time proved otherwise. What if children are involved? What if your spouse (be they the biological parent of the children involved or not) is abusing your children? To turn a blind eye to the suffering of your children because of a vow that you, not they, made, is fairly heinous in my opinion. I am, admittedly, understandably biased on this issue, but I wouldn't compare being in an abusive relationship/marriage to being a martyr for your faith. You're just being a martyr for a psychopath, and that's not worth it. I wouldn't hold anyone to such a standard, and frankly, I think to do so is wrong, and undermines the very idea of marriage. Then be friends with someone for months to years instead of making a permanent vow to them. The vow is the issue. If you're in an abusive frienship, by all means, leave that relationship. But once you vow, that vow has to stick unless the vow is violated by sexual immorality. To be frank, homosexual relationships are not what YHWH planned for his creations; so you were disobeying to beginwith. As for children being involved, the actions of our parents have consequences. People often "inherit" problems they had no hand in. When sin is involved, innocent casualties happen (innocent animals slaughtered to cover sin, the horses drowned at the Red Sea parting during Pharaoh's murderous chase of the Israelites, YHWH didn't spare children when he put a city under "the ban"; they died because of their families/vicinity[1 Samuel 15:3]). However, whatever negative circumstances you inherit, whether it be disease or an abusive household (same thing really: dis-ease), faith in our God and faith in our Messiah is suppose to suffice regardless of our situation and we should adhere to his sense of order, even if it leads to death. He didn't give us a heart of disobedience and dishonor under the new covenant. Violating a vow is both. The "very idea of marriage" is being united to Messiah (Husband = Christ/God; Wife = the Church/his believers). They're not suppose to sever ties once they've vowed and united; prophetically-speaking, Yeshua will not separate from us once we "consummate" the marriage. We're not married to him yet; we're just "betrothed" (promised to be united to him). Quote: John 14:2-3 (NIV) 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. Quote: 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NIV) 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. There is a difference between living by faith vs living by the rules of this world or by what appeals to human logic. Living by faith does not act out of a "I must survive" mindset, but out of a "I trust YHWH's way above my own". Was it logical, from a worldly human point of view, for Yeshua to go up on a cross and sacrifice himself? Clearly it was not because Peter spoke against Yeshua giving up his life, and Yeshua responded by calling him Satan: Quote: Matthew 16:21-23 (NIV) 21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. 22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!” 23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.” "Merely human concerns" is referring to physically "dying"/"surviving". It all goes back to what I originally said: do you care more about carrying-out God's will or saving your own life? The Christian life is not about "surviving" or "fear", but carrying-out God's will in faith. Much of what he and the apostles commanded denies "self" and "physical comfort". Though he does promise inner comfort and strength ( Ephesians 3:16; John 14:27; Philippians 4:7; 2 Corinthians 1:4-5). The latter is what matters. You're not being a martyr for a psycopath, you've being a martyr for God. Jesus' death did not honor his murderers. How does our death honor the abuser in any way? It wasn't for the abuser that you died (if you die). The person would've died for the sake of honoring God's way: to stay true to what one promises. A lawful marriage (lawful by YHWH's standards) is a promise, one that must be kept unless violated by sexual immorality(or the obvious death)—only then are you not bound by the vow. Jesus said the same thing in Matthew 19 and it led his disciples to say this: Quote: Matthew 19:10 (NIV) The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”
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Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:40 am
I know people who have been married for 20+ years when suddenly their spouse turns on them. I knew a couple, both well-respected veterinarians in the community (the woman still treats our cats, and the man, after getting psychological help, still treats the horses at the stable where I ride). They'd had three children together, been married for going on 30 years in what had always been a happy, loving relationship. One day the man goes batty and decides that he's going to beat his wife with a cast-iron skillet. No warning signs, nothing. One day they're working together in their garden, the next morning he sneaks up behind her while she was cooking breakfast and beats her to within and inch of her life.
Hindsight is always 20/20. If we could foresee every possible future consequence of our actions, there would be no reason for something like divorce.
My ex frequently drugged me, raped me, and whored me out to his friends. Had I been married to this person, how could anyone possibly condone my staying with him? And I'm sorry, but to anyone who would condone such a relationship continuing, no offence, but you can take a flying leap at the man on the moon.
Yes, this is an emotional issue for me. I'm not trying to be rude, but abuse is serious, and to just say "Yeah but you made a vow so you just have to suck it up" is an opinion so lacking in compassion that I can't respect it.
The homosexuality thing, I'm perfectly happy to agree to disagree because that's between God and me, but to espouse the opinion that someone needs to martyr themselves to an abusive scumbag is not an opinion I can respect. The God I worship would not damn someone for getting out of an abusive marriage. Maybe it's easier to hold to the "suck it up" opinion if you've never been in an abusive relationship, but if you have, you would never ask someone to suffer through such a thing. Nobody deserves that, for any reason.
Please don't misunderstand; I'm not saying that I disrespect you as a person. Quite the contrary. This is obviously a very emotional issue that hits very close to home for me, so I apologise for acting like such a...well, d**k, but this is an issue that I can't not take very seriously.
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High-functioning Werewolf
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Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:36 pm
SinfulGuillotine I know people who have been married for 20+ years when suddenly their spouse turns on them. I knew a couple, both well-respected veterinarians in the community (the woman still treats our cats, and the man, after getting psychological help, still treats the horses at the stable where I ride). They'd had three children together, been married for going on 30 years in what had always been a happy, loving relationship. One day the man goes batty and decides that he's going to beat his wife with a cast-iron skillet. No warning signs, nothing. One day they're working together in their garden, the next morning he sneaks up behind her while she was cooking breakfast and beats her to within and inch of her life. Hindsight is always 20/20. If we could foresee every possible future consequence of our actions, there would be no reason for something like divorce. My ex frequently drugged me, raped me, and whored me out to his friends. Had I been married to this person, how could anyone possibly condone my staying with him? And I'm sorry, but to anyone who would condone such a relationship continuing, no offence, but you can take a flying leap at the man on the moon. Yes, this is an emotional issue for me. I'm not trying to be rude, but abuse is serious, and to just say "Yeah but you made a vow so you just have to suck it up" is an opinion so lacking in compassion that I can't respect it. The homosexuality thing, I'm perfectly happy to agree to disagree because that's between God and me, but to espouse the opinion that someone needs to martyr themselves to an abusive scumbag is not an opinion I can respect. The God I worship would not damn someone for getting out of an abusive marriage. Maybe it's easier to hold to the "suck it up" opinion if you've never been in an abusive relationship, but if you have, you would never ask someone to suffer through such a thing. Nobody deserves that, for any reason. Please don't misunderstand; I'm not saying that I disrespect you as a person. Quite the contrary. This is obviously a very emotional issue that hits very close to home for me, so I apologise for acting like such a...well, d**k, but this is an issue that I can't not take very seriously.This, absolutely. And since you're spilling your guts, I suppose I'll spill mine as well. My parents' divorce was a very ugly one because my dad developed a prescription drug addiction which turned him into a very abusive person. Hence, my opinion that it was a positive change in my life. He was verbally, physically, and eventually became sexually abusive. His actions back then have created so many negative repercussions in my life, I probably haven't even discovered them all yet. Abuse is EVIL. Anyone who says otherwise clearly has never experienced it. It's not easy to endure, it's not easy to leave and sometimes, it's not even easy to recognize clearly. Nobody should be made to feel any less faithful in God because they are in an abusive marriage. Doing so, I believe, contributes to the very evil that comes from abuse.
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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:32 pm
Ophelias Bathwater This, absolutely. And since you're spilling your guts, I suppose I'll spill mine as well. My parents' divorce was a very ugly one because my dad developed a prescription drug addiction which turned him into a very abusive person. Hence, my opinion that it was a positive change in my life. He was verbally, physically, and eventually became sexually abusive. His actions back then have created so many negative repercussions in my life, I probably haven't even discovered them all yet. Abuse is EVIL. Anyone who says otherwise clearly has never experienced it. It's not easy to endure, it's not easy to leave and sometimes, it's not even easy to recognize clearly. Nobody should be made to feel any less faithful in God because they are in an abusive marriage. Doing so, I believe, contributes to the very evil that comes from abuse. Amen. I'm the first to admit that I'm not a conventional Christian, and according to more orthodox believers, my identity as a Christian is even questionable. (I don't question my identity as a Christian in the slightest, but I'm also under no illusions that many of my beliefs are at odds with what many other followers of the faith have.) And on most of these issues, I'm happy to agree to disagree. But on this particular issue, the idea of raising adultery to be a greater sin than abusing someone you're suppose to love, support, and respect, is simply not something I can idly stand by and be okay with. Abuse goes against every marriage vow that you stand up and make in front of God regarding your relationship with another human being. If my partner cheated on me, that's something we could probably work through. Would it hurt? Sure. Would it be difficult and require a lot of work on both our parts? Absolutely. But it's an issue that could be addressed and dealt with and hopefully worked through. If my partner suddenly (or gradually) turned into an abusive d-bag who showed absolutely no respect for my basic human decency? That's not something that I could get over, and not something that's likely to be worked through. Abusers rarely change, and if someone who had pledged to love and support me started to do nothing but hurt me, I cannot and will not tolerate that, and my convictions in my faith are no weaker because I'm unwilling to let someone beat me, violate me, and berate me. I'd be willing to die for my beliefs. I'm not willing to die for a scumbag.
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:59 pm
God is my strength... "Psalms 28:7"
Divorce should never happen. As VK said its there because of the hardness of man's heart.
That being said, I am currently at the tail end of a divorce. My ex left me and has an extremely hard heart against me to this day (15 months after his leaving). We have 1 child together and this has been the most horrible thing for her. The sin of our actions cause her great pain and she often feels like it is her fault.
I believe that marriage is sacred and that God hates divorce. The lasting damages are awful and I pray that no child need ever go through it. I'm not saying "stay together for the kids" or put up with an abuser. But if a divorce is going to happen, let the abuser file. Let the person who left file.
If you or your children are unsafe in the situation you are in, get out, and get out now. That doesn't mean get a divorce. It means leave and protect your children. If need be, get a restraining order and a custody agreement in place to further protect your family.
...God is my joy "Psalms 96:11-13"
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