Eclectic Wicca

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

Here is another site that agrees that not all Eclectic Wiccans are not "Liers."

Quote:

Wicca: for the rest of us.

You love your logical fallacies don't you. Note the lack of information on lineage?

See how the author isn't in a position to contest the assertions without being a lineaged Wiccan?  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko- Before you address my posts- please address the issue Nuri posted.  

[Naomi Tinuveil]

TeaDidikai

Naomi Tinuveil

::is so glad she's not wiccan:: wow sweatdrop You guys bite each others heads off. ::Scratches back of head:: scary lol ::Just backs away slowly::

Of note- I'm not Wiccan.

Also for note- Neither is Neko Bast.

sweatdrop Sorry for assuming . . . I did not mean it in a deragatory mannor.  

[TeaDidikai]

Naomi Tinuveil

TeaDidikai

Naomi Tinuveil

::is so glad she's not wiccan:: wow sweatdrop You guys bite each others heads off. ::Scratches back of head:: scary lol ::Just backs away slowly::

Of note- I'm not Wiccan.

Also for note- Neither is Neko Bast.

sweatdrop Sorry for assuming . . . I did not mean it in a deragatory mannor.

No problem.

One more post of hers and I'll end up adding Reagun's info dump into the mix.  

[AvalonAuggie]

TeaDidikai

One more post of hers and I'll end up adding Reagun's info dump into the mix.

I think that post either scares people shitless, or they ignore it because it's such a large amount of wordage.

That said, has it been made into a sticky? I'm ignorant.  

[TheDisreputableDog]

Neko_Bast

You will never think I'm Wiccan without proof that you can understand.

Um...isn't that the point? Tea and Reagun have spent four pages telling you exactly what proof they will understand and accept and you've ignored every bit of it.

I don't know the answers to Reagun's questions either, but that's okay because I'm not Wiccan. You are not Wiccan, so you don't know the answers to his questions. All that is required is for you to either answer his questions correctly, provide some legitimate sources that actually back you up and fix your arguments, or just say that you're interested in Wicca and would like to become a dedicant and put some real work into actually becoming Wiccan.

'Real work' doesn't mean that all the study you've done is invalidated in itself, just that you haven't been working toward a Wiccan initiation. To add yet another analogy to the list of those against you: you can take as many classes as you like, but unless you take the classes required for your major, you will never get a degree in that major.

It takes a lot of strength to admit that you might be wrong about something. It's a real blow to one's pride, but maybe you would learn a lesson that would serve you better than all the Cunningham books you could ever read.  

[TeaDidikai]

AvalonAuggie

TeaDidikai

One more post of hers and I'll end up adding Reagun's info dump into the mix.

I think that post either scares people shitless, or they ignore it because it's such a large amount of wordage.

That said, has it been made into a sticky? I'm ignorant.

Nope. But it should be.

Reagun Ban

I think, in order to best discuss wether or not you're entitled to call yourself Wiccan, we need to comment on what the legitimacy of the Coven is and therefore the legitimacy of you as a Wiccan. If a Coven has lineage, it is legitimate. Lineage is a direct line back to Gardner's coven. Many argue this is irrelevant. They are wrong. This is not an opinion. It is a statement of simple fact. Once a lineaged Coven initiates you, you can call yourself Wiccan because you are Wiccan. You have been brought into Wicca by the sacred rite of initiation.

Gardner did not release all of his religion in written format. He was paranoid. He believed the eebil xians were out to get him, I believe he was a paranoid man with a need to feel self important and the secrets gave him that. Regardless, these secrets have not been revealed and are not available to outsiders. Admittedly, all you have is my word and the word of pretty much all lineaged covens. So, again, we come to legitimacy. Those who are initiated, and claim to be privvy to some secrets, say those who aren't initiated aren't privvy to these secrets.

It has been raised that all we have is the word of Initiates that there are secrets. I am no longer Wiccan. There are secrets. I was initiated. There are secrets. I left the path. There are secrets. If there were no secrets, then I was lied to before my initiation. Why would I, as a non-wiccan, help to uphold a lie I was told when lying is inherently bad?

Those who can trace a direct line of teaching to the religion's creator claim that those who cannot are missing vital information, the information which actually makes you a Wiccan. Do they lord it over the outer court practitioners, never in my experience or the experience of any I've ever met. These secrets don't make you a better person, they grant you a true understanding of what it means to be Wicca. They are, in essence, a large part of the Religion itself.

"But you're lording it over us now" you say. Doesn't matter because a) I'm not Wiccan and b) I'm just telling you that they exist not lording them over you. I'm asking "but how can you call yourself Wiccans when you don't know what Wicca is" not saying "ha, you're lesser beings. I am so much better than you because I know the secrets. You shall never know them mortals ha ha ha ha"

"But I believe in the Lord and Lady" you may say. "So ******** what", I say. Have you been to a lineaged coven meeting? If the answer is no, then how do you know the Lord and Lady you follow are the same as the Lord and Lady of Wicca. Because it's in a book? So are the Valar. Because it's in a book on Wicca? Any true author is limited in what they can tell you by the 161 Rules of Wicca and by the Initiatory Oaths. If they are claiming to reveal the secrets of Wicca then they are claiming to break an Oath. Bear that in mind when reading their material. I realise that just because they're Oathbreakers doesn't mean they're lying about the secrets of wicca, I'm just explaining the facts.

If you haven't been initiated by a lineaged coven, you don't know what Wicca is. You can argue against this til you're blue in the face but you may as well be arguing that squares are circles. Be a pagan, be an ecclectic, but neither of these will make you a Wiccan. There is no need to be a Wiccan. I'm not. Wicca was too constricting in some ways and not enough in others. It offered me none of the answers to the questions I was asking.

Stop reading into it that my telling you you're not wiccan is me telling you you're bad people, bad pagans, that you're faith is flawed or wrong. All I'm telling you is that without initiation, you can't possibly know what Wicca is.

Can you claim to be a Catholic Priest without being ordained? Can you claim to be a Hindu Brahman or a Buddhist monk without the neccessary training? Believing in the Torah does not make you a Rabbi. Why the ******** would believing in the Lord and Lady make you a Wiccan?

 

[CuAnnan]

Turnaround:
Your source calls you a liar  

[TeaDidikai]

reagun ban

Turnaround:
Your source calls you a liar

I pointed that out. She didn't get it.  

[Neko_Bast]

TeaDidikai

Neko- Before you address my posts- please address the issue Nuri posted.

Why? Acording to you I can't be following the same gods of the Wiccans without being Wiccan. I agree with her on that the God and Goddess don't just lissen to "Lineaged and Initiated" Wiccans.

Quote:

Gardner was initiated by a Traditional English Witch's coven, not a Wiccan coven. Since it is historically dictated by Hutton in "The Triumph of the Moon" that The Lord and Lady of Wicca did NOT exist before the invention Wicca, which was invented in the fifties, we don't need to prove anything. The burden of proof is on you.

Also if Gardner created the God and Goddess then wouldn't that make them falts gods? Gods are not created, they exist.

Quote:

You're claim to be a Catholic Nun would be just as valid.

LOL, I acutally could clame to be one if I so chose. biggrin All I'd have to do is put on a habit and swear off sex. xd


Now I continue to wait for an ansuer.

Edit: TeaDidikai, I've already read that post from him......  

[CuAnnan]

Neko_Bast

Quote:

Gardner was initiated by a Traditional English Witch's coven, not a Wiccan coven. Since it is historically dictated by Hutton in "The Triumph of the Moon" that The Lord and Lady of Wicca did NOT exist before the invention Wicca, which was invented in the fifties, we don't need to prove anything. The burden of proof is on you.

Also if Gardner created the God and Goddess then wouldn't that make them falts gods? Gods are not created, they exist.

Firstly, no. It wouldn't neccessarily make them false Gods. They may be Gods who did not reveal themselves to anyone until Gardner.
Secondly, no, it wouldn't neccessarily make them false Gods they may be like Om... ala small gods.
Thirdly, BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU.  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

Quote:

You're claim to be a Catholic Nun would be just as valid.

LOL, I acutally could clame to be one if I so chose. biggrin All I'd have to do is put on a habit and swear off sex. xd


Now I continue to wait for an ansuer.

Edit: TeaDidikai, I've already read that post from him......

So... your just a compulsive liar then? Do you know what makes a Catholic Nun different from a Catholic Woman who is Celibate? Or ********- how about being able to tell the difference between a Catholic Nun and Me?

Are you so deluded that you think your word makes things so? If that is the case- tell me I just won the lottary.  

[maenad nuri]

Neko_Bast

TeaDidikai

Neko- Before you address my posts- please address the issue Nuri posted.

Why? Acording to you I can't be following the same gods of the Wiccans without being Wiccan. I agree with her on that the God and Goddess don't just lissen to "Lineaged and Initiated" Wiccans.

Although, apparently what you missed was that you still aren't Wiccan. You are a different religion with (possibly) the same Gods.  

[Neko_Bast]

TeaDidikai

Neko_Bast

Quote:

You're claim to be a Catholic Nun would be just as valid.

LOL, I acutally could clame to be one if I so chose. biggrin All I'd have to do is put on a habit and swear off sex. xd


Now I continue to wait for an ansuer.

Edit: TeaDidikai, I've already read that post from him......

So... your just a compulsive liar then? Do you know what makes a Catholic Nun different from a Catholic Woman who is Celibate? Or ********- how about being able to tell the difference between a Catholic Nun and Me?

Are you so deluded that you think your word makes things so? If that is the case- tell me I just won the lottary.

Oh....lets see. rolleyes The differece between them is that a Catholic Nun is a bride of Christ. She is, in a sence, married to him. An Celibate Catholic will evenualy have sex. My whole family is Catholic.  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

Oh....lets see. rolleyes The differece between them is that a Catholic Nun is a bride of Christ. She is, in a sence, married to him. An Celibate Catholic will evenualy have sex. My whole family is Catholic.

So, as someone who knows Catholics, you are aware that one does not up and declair herself a Nun one day, yes? That one goes to convent, studies, worships, seeks guidence from members of the Sisterhood and from Priests, takes tests, takes vows, and does a whole host of other things that makes her different from say me, who knows the rosary in Latin (even if I can only say it in a bad fake Irish accent).

The difference is the same between you and a Wiccan. And just like I would be a liar to say I was a Nun, you are a liar to say you're a Wiccan.