Born into Sin?

[Reik8]

I think "limbo" only existed in people's mind in the Middle Ages. I'm not really sure but I heard about it.

Hmm... I still don't understand the whole thing. So it isn't because of the disobedience of Adam and Eve but has something to do with Jesus? And that he wanted to save everyone?
This topic confuses me, somehow xD  

[Artto]

Basically, you need to accept that Adam and Eve f*cked up everything by eating from the tree of knowledge, or else Jesus died for nothing razz  

[Aakosir]

Reik8

I think "limbo" only existed in people's mind in the Middle Ages. I'm not really sure but I heard about it.

I know for sure that people do still believe in limbo. Purgatory is another word for it. And yes, there are religions that believe in Purgatory.  

[rmcdra]

Aakosir

Reik8

I think "limbo" only existed in people's mind in the Middle Ages. I'm not really sure but I heard about it.

I know for sure that people do still believe in limbo. Purgatory is another word for it. And yes, there are religions that believe in Purgatory.

Purgatory and Limbo are different areas in the Christian cosmology. Limbo was believed to be an area of hell where those who are unbaptized went to. This was never part of official teachings. The current pope pasted a decree affirming that Limbo has never been part of official teachings.

Purgatory is a waiting room where everybody who hasn't obtained sainthood (or gone to Hell) goes. In this realm those who still who were righteous but still have temporal sins have them burned off here before they can enter into Heaven.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2N.HTM

III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.604 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. the tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:605

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.606

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."607 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.608 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.609

 

[Someoneiknow]

There is no such thing as being born into sin. It's a ridiculous idea to believe such because God would not be so mean and condescending. To be born into sin means that a child must confess with their mouth their sin and repent and not just be baptized according to scripture. If an infant dies, they are going to hell then. God would be unjust. How unfair for those children. And believing that that child would have been a severe sinner is not fair either. How would we know? How would a parent know? How would a parent want to remain Christian believing their child is in hell? The pure idea of it is so horrific and sad.  

[Captain_Shinzo]

Lumanny the Space Jew

I heard somewhere that Christians baptise because they believe the baby must be saved because it is technically a sinner as soon as it is born?
What the...? Is this true?

In Judaism this isn't true at all. The Circumcision isn't to save after sin, but just to enter the covenant of Abraham, which is very different. The Talmud does say that when a baby enters the world it does at that moment become succeptible to sin. But it will not actually sin until it is at least a few years old. And it is not held reponsible for its sins until it comes of age at 13.

What do other religions believe about this??

I'm not exactly well equipped on this topic.

However, I think how it goes that a few bits of Christianity believe that people in our past ******** up, like Adam and Eve, and that we carry their sin with us because of this.
Now how or why this makes sense to someone in a moral aspect, I don't know.  

[Aakosir]

rmcdra

Aakosir

Reik8

I think "limbo" only existed in people's mind in the Middle Ages. I'm not really sure but I heard about it.

I know for sure that people do still believe in limbo. Purgatory is another word for it. And yes, there are religions that believe in Purgatory.

Purgatory and Limbo are different areas in the Christian cosmology. Limbo was believed to be an area of hell where those who are unbaptized went to. This was never part of official teachings. The current pope pasted a decree affirming that Limbo has never been part of official teachings.

Purgatory is a waiting room where everybody who hasn't obtained sainthood (or gone to Hell) goes. In this realm those who still who were righteous but still have temporal sins have them burned off here before they can enter into Heaven.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2N.HTM

III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.604 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. the tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:605

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.606

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."607 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.608 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.609

Well you learn something every day. I did not know that Limbo was for unbatized Christians. Or would it be all people? I would imagine all people, because Christians were like that >.> <.< >.> I thought they were places you went to await judgement or to be trapped there for all eternity. I guess it's like combining soul and spirit. Which is a no-no to me.  

[Aakosir]

Someoneiknow

There is no such thing as being born into sin. It's a ridiculous idea to believe such because God would not be so mean and condescending. To be born into sin means that a child must confess with their mouth their sin and repent and not just be baptized according to scripture. If an infant dies, they are going to hell then. God would be unjust. How unfair for those children. And believing that that child would have been a severe sinner is not fair either. How would we know? How would a parent know? How would a parent want to remain Christian believing their child is in hell? The pure idea of it is so horrific and sad.

Well is God just? Are gods just? I think not. But it is not all Christians who believe this. It is mostly the smaller groups like Mormon and Amish. I believe someone already cleared up what baptism is for in Christianity.  

[Someoneiknow]

Aakosir

Someoneiknow

There is no such thing as being born into sin. It's a ridiculous idea to believe such because God would not be so mean and condescending. To be born into sin means that a child must confess with their mouth their sin and repent and not just be baptized according to scripture. If an infant dies, they are going to hell then. God would be unjust. How unfair for those children. And believing that that child would have been a severe sinner is not fair either. How would we know? How would a parent know? How would a parent want to remain Christian believing their child is in hell? The pure idea of it is so horrific and sad.

Well is God just? Are gods just? I think not. But it is not all Christians who believe this. It is mostly the smaller groups like Mormon and Amish. I believe someone already cleared up what baptism is for in Christianity.

And it's only Atheists who view God or gods as being unjust. Matter of perspective.  

[Artto]

Someoneiknow

And it's only Atheists who view God or gods as being unjust. Matter of perspective.

Yes, because in your view, everything God does is good and just by default. Even if God ordered the slaughter of all women and children in a city, it would be just and good, because God said it.
An atheist isn't constrained to this "logic" and is able to apply his own moral sense to these stories.  

[Someoneiknow]

Artto

Someoneiknow

And it's only Atheists who view God or gods as being unjust. Matter of perspective.

Yes, because in your view, everything God does is good and just by default. Even if God ordered the slaughter of all women and children in a city, it would be just and good, because God said it.
An atheist isn't constrained to this "logic" and is able to apply his own moral sense to these stories.

Now you are implying that Christians can't apply logic to any situation, which is completely unfounded.  

[Eponishta]

Aakosir

Reik8

I think "limbo" only existed in people's mind in the Middle Ages. I'm not really sure but I heard about it.

I know for sure that people do still believe in limbo. Purgatory is another word for it. And yes, there are religions that believe in Purgatory.

limbo was at one time a legitimate doctrine/belief of the Roman Catholic Church. It is a place where the unbaptized infants and those who die without having the blessings of the sacrements go within Pergatory.

To me the whole thing is bunk. I was happy to hear that the Pope ended its teaching. Now, I can only hope that Purgatory follows suit, since it is also a belief/doctrine that has popped up in Roman Catholicism since the Midieval Ages.  

[Someoneiknow]

Eponishta

Aakosir

Reik8

I think "limbo" only existed in people's mind in the Middle Ages. I'm not really sure but I heard about it.

I know for sure that people do still believe in limbo. Purgatory is another word for it. And yes, there are religions that believe in Purgatory.

limbo was at one time a legitimate doctrine/belief of the Roman Catholic Church. It is a place where the unbaptized infants and those who die without having the blessings of the sacrements go within Pergatory.

To me the whole thing is bunk. I was happy to hear that the Pope ended its teaching. Now, I can only hope that Purgatory follows suit, since it is also a belief/doctrine that has popped up in Roman Catholicism since the Midieval Ages.

I kind of feel that purgatory won't go away anytime soon. Whether scripturally backed or not, it is still popular among Catholics, because many of the "Christmas and Easter" Catholics, which is many, enjoy that thought that purgatory is great. Not hell, not heaven, so they don't have to be saintly, but they aren't Satan's helpers, so they can be bad, just not too bad.  

[Artto]

Someoneiknow

Now you are implying that Christians can't apply logic to any situation, which is completely unfounded.

What?? Read my post again. I said Christians can't apply morality to God.

Someoneiknow

Not hell, not heaven, so they don't have to be saintly, but they aren't Satan's helpers, so they can be bad, just not too bad.

The whole point of Christianity is that everyone is inherently bad, and can never reach heaven, which is why we have Jesus as a loophole. And since it's not acts based, even someone like Hitler could easily get to heaven if he accepted Jesus before he died.