Broom Closet

[Dokt0rGunn]

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[TheDisreputableDog]

Some people think going up to people and saying "Hi, I'm a witch. My magickal name is Rain Starflower" is like a self-affirming action. If someone cares, they'll ask, and then you can tell them. If they ask for more information, then you can explain.

We call it "coming out of the broom closet" as kind of a play on "coming out of the closet" for gays...but we already have free exercise of religion. Who's the last person who was killed for being pagan? It's kind of a piece of vanity for most pagans when it's a life-and-death situation for gays, lesbians, bisexuals, the transgendered, the intersexed... The broom closet shouldn't be such a big deal.  

[TeaDidikai]

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[Dokt0rGunn]

Thanks for your opinion both TheDisreputableDog, and TeaDidikai.

Also TeaDidikai thanks for giving me something to think about. A different opinion is always nice to hear, keeps me from getting too egotistical.  

[Gingerbread . Coffin]

I've got a plethora of friends that come from a great big handful of different religions. I've never heard any of them say, "Hi, I'm Xenobia, I'm a Shia Muslim." or "Hi, I'm David, I'm a Southern Baptist Christian."

Does anybody really do that? I think there's less (or should be less) division between daily life and religious life. That once you change your religious outlook (and inlook) in life, so changes the other aspects of life. To each his own, but religion, I feel, is more personal than just a name..

But then, I've never proclaimed to be an Earth Pagan to my parents, so I've never come across this situation. My "coming out" was a 4 hour conversation with my dad about how I feel closer to "The Powers that Be" when I'm out in nature. And my dad's the same way, only with more Christian over-tones. We discussed various religions as well, him leaning more towards Islam (because he keeps the Five Pillars of Islam close to his heart) and me leaning more towards Neo-Paganism and the older religions. He got the basic hint and calls it my Spiritual Renaissance.

I don't think there should be much "shock" when you say "I'm a [religious name]". I think that actions speak louder than words when it comes to the people that matter. Explaining to the best of your abilities when words are needed.  

[LadyEladrin]

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[Gideon Starorzewski]

Well on the cover of her first appearance, Supergirl introduces herself to Superman as having all the same powers as him ostensibly because he too is of Kryptonian origin. That's about as good as I can do for a precedent. xp  

[TheDisreputableDog]

TeaDidikai

In which case- it would be, ja? I mean, if they believe it is self-affirming, and they gather such from said action...

Point.

TeaDidikai

Excuse me. But I think the last time someone was killed for witchcraft was a year ago in Afghanistan if I remember the AP date on that correctly. Mind you, this is the one I heard about.

I stand corrected.

TeaDidikai

Furthermore- homosexuals have the same rights to exist as the pagan scene. You say this like there aren't Blue Laws that discriminate against pagans. Well kiddo. There are. In the laws against different kinds of sacrifice- in the laws against minors taking part in Blots, in the laws against different kinds of animal sacrifice.

I seem to have been lacking in information but I'm having trouble fixing that. Throw a bone or two my way?

TeaDidikai

You want to liken the suffering of homosexuals to pagans? Okay. An "atheist" was stoned in my middle school by a bunch of girls who thought she was "satanic".

A crazy Catholic girl tried to use a life size prop from her church's Passion Play to crucify a witch who was dating her brother.

Do you see the common thread here? It's not the eB!L X!anz are out to get us... it's that there are nutters in the world. Crazies period- regardless of religious ties who will use theology as an excuse for their madness.

Point. I think I need to attach an "all posts subject to personal experience" clause to my signature since I seem to need it so often.

TeaDidikai

Discrimination against homosexuals and pagans are equal as far as Blue Laws where I live are concerned (correction... to be honest- the gay community has it easier.) and it's not that it is life and death to be X, Y or Z- it is life or death to be different in situations where such can be said at all.

Point, again. I've always had more of a personal interest vested in sexuality than in religion; I shouldn't let my personal annoyance with "the broom closet" color my statements.

This brings me to a totally unrelated question...if the 'pagan situation' is comparable to the 'homosexual situation,' should we have a 'pagan rights movement' or 'religious rights movement'?  

[Gingerbread . Coffin]

TheDisreputableDog

This brings me to a totally unrelated question...if the 'pagan situation' is comparable to the 'homosexual situation,' should we have a 'pagan rights movement' or 'religious rights movement'?

And what about Gay Pagans? surprised

It's a bit better than how it was 100 years ago, from what I understand. One of the legal battles I can remember off the top of my head about this sorta stuff is the Ravenwood vs. Roberts Case, where Paganism became a recognized religion and Pagan churches became tax exemptable.

That happened where I live too. (:  

[TeaDidikai]

Nadreth

Thanks for your opinion both TheDisreputableDog, and TeaDidikai.

Also TeaDidikai thanks for giving me something to think about. A different opinion is always nice to hear, keeps me from getting too egotistical.

mrgreen Welcome. ~pulls down her skirt in back~ Is my DA showing?

Nuri>> You know, if I keep this up, it will start to be really easy to spot... if it isn't already. twisted

Gingerbread . Coffin

I've got a plethora of friends that come from a great big handful of different religions. I've never heard any of them say, "Hi, I'm Xenobia, I'm a Shia Muslim." or "Hi, I'm David, I'm a Southern Baptist Christian."

Does anybody really do that? I think there's less (or should be less) division between daily life and religious life. That once you change your religious outlook (and inlook) in life, so changes the other aspects of life. To each his own, but religion, I feel, is more personal than just a name..

Yes. Some people do that. Very immature and annoying people in my book, but then, immature and annoying people can turn out to be very cool when they grow up.

Quote:

I don't think there should be much "shock" when you say "I'm a [religious name]". I think that actions speak louder than words when it comes to the people that matter. Explaining to the best of your abilities when words are needed.

Why would one expect anything less than shock? I mean- to some people, each member of this guild has been tricked by the Devil to be lead away from God's heart into the arms of evil incarnate- people like Tsuzuki are the worst of us all! He should know better!

TheDisreputableDog

I stand corrected.

No problem. My step father was a member of the AP, he used to toss me strange stories all the time. I liked the "20 Naked Pentecostals Packed into a Pontiac" one the best.

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TeaDidikai

Furthermore- homosexuals have the same rights to exist as the pagan scene. You say this like there aren't Blue Laws that discriminate against pagans. Well kiddo. There are. In the laws against different kinds of sacrifice- in the laws against minors taking part in Blots, in the laws against different kinds of animal sacrifice.

I seem to have been lacking in information but I'm having trouble fixing that. Throw a bone or two my way?

Well, there are laws that prevent some ritual sacrifices under the title of "animal cruelty", and I have a real problem because of the different holidays in my faith that require animal sacrifices in times where it is illegal to hunt said animal.

Furthermore- Blots involve the drinking of mead- something that Catholics have no problem with, but the Asatru in my area have had to call the ACLU over. Also, some of the "holy sites" for rituals are "dry parks", meaning that even though the outline for the ritual space only exists for in that park for the next three hundred miles, Blots are out of the question.

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Point. I think I need to attach an "all posts subject to personal experience" clause to my signature since I seem to need it so often.

No prob. Generalizations can be a real pain.

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Point, again. I've always had more of a personal interest vested in sexuality than in religion; I shouldn't let my personal annoyance with "the broom closet" color my statements.

Well, as a Bisexual on my path, I tend to be a little jaded on both sides- and usually end up telling people much of what I mentioned above.

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This brings me to a totally unrelated question...if the 'pagan situation' is comparable to the 'homosexual situation,' should we have a 'pagan rights movement' or 'religious rights movement'?

There are a couple movements that are far less orgnized than the Gay Rights movements. In my area they usually take the shape of pagan members of the bar doing pro-bono work for pagans fighting for their rights and letters drafted from the ACLU.  

[Gingerbread . Coffin]

TeaDidikai

Yes. Some people do that. Very immature and annoying people in my book, but then, immature and annoying people can turn out to be very cool when they grow up.

o_O; Really? Not that I doubt growing up can introduce humility to someones life, but... Are we talking about online or offline or both? Because I've seen people do it online, but offline...

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Why would one expect anything less than shock? I mean- to some people, each member of this guild has been tricked by the Devil to be lead away from God's heart into the arms of evil incarnate- people like Tsuzuki are the worst of us all! He should know better!

To the people that matter? Even when I my mom found out, who is the idol for all Southern Baptist-Pentacoastal nutjob extremeist mothers, she wasn't surprised.

I got thrown out of the moving car, but she wasn't surprised. sweatdrop  

[LadyEladrin]

ninja The Pagan Pride Day movement is a result of the success of the Gay Pride movement, so you could say that there IS something akin to that going on. Pagan Pride is about education of the general public about Pagans. We throw a 1 day or half day festival in our area with workshops, discussions, public ritual and harvest themed food drive every year. I think this past year we had 120 Ppdays on 4 continents within the span of a month and a bit. Part of the ppday thing in some places is the education of Pagans about thier rights under their Charter or Constitution or whathaveyou, so they know that they can't be denied an apartment or job because they're Pagan, or discriminated against in any way. While Wicca is a recognized religion in most places where Ppday is, Paganism itself, because of its lack of a real definition, isn't. sweatdrop  

[TheDisreputableDog]

Gingerbread . Coffin

And what about Gay Pagans? surprised

I've had friends just stop being pagan and drop out of the pagan scene because they were straight and didn't like that "every pagan is either gay or bisexual." And that "there are no good-looking pagan men." stare  

[TeaDidikai]

Gingerbread . Coffin

TeaDidikai

Yes. Some people do that. Very immature and annoying people in my book, but then, immature and annoying people can turn out to be very cool when they grow up.

o_O; Really? Not that I doubt growing up can introduce humility to someones life, but... Are we talking about online or offline or both? Because I've seen people do it online, but offline...

Quote:

Why would one expect anything less than shock? I mean- to some people, each member of this guild has been tricked by the Devil to be lead away from God's heart into the arms of evil incarnate- people like Tsuzuki are the worst of us all! He should know better!

To the people that matter? Even when I my mom found out, who is the idol for all Southern Baptist-Pentacoastal nutjob extremeist mothers, she wasn't surprised.

I got thrown out of the moving car, but she wasn't surprised. sweatdrop

Yes. Offline as well.

Are you suggesting that tossing one's child from a moving car is a rational action?

TDD>>There are good looking pagan men. They just get married quickly.  

[Gingerbread . Coffin]

TeaDidikai

Are you suggesting that tossing one's child from a moving car is a rational action?

Nope.

Thus the "nutjob".

But, she wasn't surprised.
Just "not okay with it" xp

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TDD>>There are good looking pagan men. They just get married quickly.

So, we have to start getting them before they're ripe, eh? ninja

To the high schools! [*****!]