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 Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:30 pm
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/getthisthreadontrack
Ahem.
To the best of my knowledge and experience, vampires are another species. They are not humans with a deficiency, they are not mutants, they are humanoid creatures from another plane. They used to frequently visit this plane, in a physical form that rather closely resembled ours ( if you can physically jump planes, I'm sure it's a cakewalk to change your form ) and wander around, sometimes even living among us for some time. Those visits have severely declined since they're no longer able to feed off of the blood of animals here; we've polluted everything ( including ourselves ) so much that it's painful and not at all worth it to feed when on this plane, energy or otherwise. I've no idea if they ever tried to reproduce with humans, but I can only imagine the effects would've been deadly to the human involved. If not, it may explain some of history's severely odd characters.
On the subject of reproduction; there is a theory floating around in my head that vampiris ( the term I use for the species proper; look at my scientific ) is an asexual or hermaphroditic species. I briefly spoke to one through a friend, and she referred to him as 'he' though she mentioned they have no set gender. That's all the information I got from her, so this could mean that they are entirely nongendered, or that they have the ability to fill the roles of both genders. Of course, it's still possible that they're male and female, just like us.
All this being said, it's not that humans can't be vampires in a way; they still may require energy from another source, blood or otherwise. This may have been caused by an astral close-encounter with a vampire ( if they fed off a human, it may have damaged them; thus the legend of being bitten and transforming ).
That's all the general information I could pull out of memory for now. If I think of any other things or especially if you have any questions ( I'm good at answering questions ), I'll post it/answers to those questions here. smile
-Ravyn 3nodding
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:18 am
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Ravyn LaRoux
They used to frequently visit this plane, in a physical form that rather closely resembled ours ( if you can physically jump planes, I'm sure it's a cakewalk to change your form )
Just because someone has mastered planar travel doesn't mean they necessarily will have mastered shapeshifting. That's like saying "If we're smart enough to go to the moon, we should be smart enough to cure cancer," or similar. If the two abilities were somehow related to each other -- for example, the mastery of one directly led to the mastery of the other -- then I'd be more comfortable with this idea, but otherwise, it seems like a very big leap to say that they can polymorph just because they can visit different planes.
Ravyn LaRoux Those visits have severely declined since they're no longer able to feed off of the blood of animals here; we've polluted everything ( including ourselves ) so much that it's painful and not at all worth it to feed when on this plane, energy or otherwise.
That's pushing it a little, isn't it? Sure, we've somewhat polluted the earth, but not any of the other planets in our solar system, galaxy or universe - yet somehow, we've managed to corrupt an entire plane? Did you mean something other than "our universe" when you said "plane"? |
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:06 am
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Mitsh Just because someone has mastered planar travel doesn't mean they necessarily will have mastered shapeshifting. That's like saying "If we're smart enough to go to the moon, we should be smart enough to cure cancer," or similar. If the two abilities were somehow related to each other -- for example, the mastery of one directly led to the mastery of the other -- then I'd be more comfortable with this idea, but otherwise, it seems like a very big leap to say that they can polymorph just because they can visit different planes.
We all can visit different planes, but astrally. As far as I'm aware, they are actually capable of moving their physical bodies to this plane. In my mind, that would be similar to a human doing so, and I can imagine that if you have that kind of mastery over your physical form, changing it wouldn't be too much of a stretch.
Mitsh That's pushing it a little, isn't it? Sure, we've somewhat polluted the earth, but not any of the other planets in our solar system, galaxy or universe - yet somehow, we've managed to corrupt an entire plane? Did you mean something other than "our universe" when you said "plane"?
I did indeed, and I apologize for the not-quite-concise wording; I meant this planet, specifically.
Also, please note that I'm not claiming any of this information to be factual, this is simply based on research I've done, encounters I've had, et cetera; all totally subjective. Simply offering it up for discussion I am. 3nodding
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:14 pm
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Vampires do live in this world, haves sexes, as well as mate with humans. Some consider themselves almost human, while others seem to consider themselves not human at all.
I know that they have laws, which state they cannot drink the blood of an unwilling 'donor', however like any place on earth, there are lawbreakers and that is where we get rogue vamps who will attack any old human for their blood. Also, drinking human blood does not turn a human into a vampire, nor can a single vampire drink enough to kill a human.
This from my interview with two vampires I know. I hope to gather more info from them, as well as about lugeru/werewolves, but I have yet to interview the lugeru.
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:17 pm
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:21 pm
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Mistreena Vampires do live in this world, haves sexes, as well as mate with humans. Some consider themselves almost human, while others seem to consider themselves not human at all.
I know that they have laws, which state they cannot drink the blood of an unwilling 'donor', however like any place on earth, there are lawbreakers and that is where we get rogue vamps who will attack any old human for their blood. Also, drinking human blood does not turn a human into a vampire, nor can a single vampire drink enough to kill a human.
This from my interview with two vampires I know. I hope to gather more info from them, as well as about lugeru/werewolves, but I have yet to interview the lugeru.
would these be the secret Vampyre Societies i have heard of? sounds similar to them. i have generally viewed alot of the modern ones as Cults, and know that plenty of human people are among them. they tend to prey on idiots who are easy to manipulate. i guess it's a way to get around the "no unwilling donors" law they have... heck, that might even be too harsh, they are following the law just fine, they just spot those who they can tell are stupid enough to be fullywilling without realy realizing what they are getting into! xd
i'm sorry, i'm rambling... i don't have any disrespect for these Societies, i'm just wary of them. it's the idiots they prey on who i hate. rolleyes |
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:34 pm
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Satrevi Oborosen Koigokoro Konjou Simim You're a vampire if you need energy to survive and are incapable of producing it yourself. Most people can absorb energies and keep them there. Vampires are running a continuous leak, so to speak. Of course, I'm skeptical of most people claiming to be one, because their reports of fatigue, weakness in sun, etc, are all theory at best until they go to a doctor and have themselves checked out. Vampires don't sparkle or shrivel up in the sunlight. You're born as a vampire: temporary vampirism can occur, but a vampire it makes not. You can't be turned. Sanguine vamps are simply feeding off energy through a physical medium. I highly agree with you Simim. Actually an old friend of mine who is I regret to say is a heavy Twilight Fan. Actually explained they sparkly effect to me in a very convincing detail. Yes the light burns his skin, but his body heals before he actually catches fire. And while the effect is still rather queer to me, it does help me except it just a little more. WHAT?!? You just brought Twilight, of all things into a discussion about vampirism? Really?!?!? Congratulations. You've just lost your credibility as far as I'm concerned. rofl pirate
and i also must say that i can't realy see any logic in the twilight comparison here....
the twilight series is not mythologically accurate by any stretch of the imagination. meyer's vampires qualify as vampires in my opinion only because they resemble them enough for her to get away with creative liberty. but i dislike them as a model because they are not at all accurate depictions of Vampires.
same as dragonland isn't an accurate depiction of Dragons.
sounds like your friend grabbed onto the nearest flimsy theory he could to support the version of vampires that meyer came up with, and it realy doesn't have any place in this discussion. if you wanted info from us, we can give you info. but you have to be willing to believe some of it, at least in theory. |
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:40 pm
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Oborosen What I speak of here, is not the point. The original use of this thread was to make a place for others to compile there information as a cause to bring forth and understanding. Which is why I started doing this in the first place. Disregard what I say if you like, I truly don't care. I just wanted to see if someone had information to add that I hadn't compiled in my studies yet. Any thing added here that turns to have credibility will be filed with the rest of my work. But instead, I get a truly observant person who states facts as of natural things. When there not taking into the account that the subject matter is far from natural. So far, Mitsh is the only one giving good grounds for debate. But by all means, speak your mind. Come to think of it, I should have left the original comment on this thread like I did before stating this as a serious topic.
i saw quite a bit of good ground for debate. it doesn't have to be agreeable to be good grounds, it just has to spur intelligent arguments. |
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:46 pm
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Oborosen Thank you Satrevi for that breath of fresh air, and as a fact I like the twilight book. But the movie's suck balls. My understanding of vampiric origins is Biblical. Which if people want to start to look into, read the removed sections of genesis. And start from there, though Lilith isn't a vampire. She may as well be there mother. Because if It wasn't for her, Kane would still be hiding out under mount Allatu. And yes, I do have information that combats the existence of vampire's. Which is as convincing as those that say vampires do or at one time did exists. I'm just asking that people give there two cents and the be blessed for the rest of the day. That's all..
............................
vampiric lore is not found in the bible.
it is also not found in apocryphal jewish/christian/islamic scriptures.
and most information about vampires from followers of the Abrahamic faiths is extremely innacurate.
you should have been looking into cultural mythologies and lore, eyewitness accounts, comparing occult stories from around the globe, not delving into religious archeology.
you realy don't know how to research the occult, do you? think relevency. |
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:49 pm
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Mistreena It seems to me that all myths and legends had to have some fact that created them in the first place. I do know of Vlad the Impaler, who bathed in and possibly drank the blood of his defeated enemies. That is the only historical reference that I know of.
While researching vampires for a school project I wanted to do years ago (and never actually kept with the topic), I found a website, something like sanguinarius.com, though that could be wrong, that was a forum for 'real' vampires. There was a bit on info on there about what a real vampire is: they are not immortal, do not have special powers of any kind, are not adverse to sunlight or garlic (lol), and merely have a very strong craving for blood. Other than this craving, which seems sort of like an OCD thing, they are just like any other human. This is what I got from this website. Before finding this site, I was doubting the existence of vampires, and now I think there is a possibility, but I cannot be certain. I'll keep my mind open anyways.
There was also mentions of Psychic vampires on another chat site I used to belong to (unfortunately I changed my e-mail and then they didn't accept me back in stressed crying
The psychic vampire would leech your energy away from you merely by being in a close proximity to you, whether it was consciously or unconsciously. Of course, as someone above had mentioned, anyone could do that if they knew how, I'm sure.
That's about the extent of my vampire knowledge. And Twilight wasn't a bad book, the movie sucked, and at least it is getting more teens to start reading. The part about sparkling in the sun was the best, merely because no one had ever done that before, so it was completely unique.
i at least admire your reasoning behind your stance on the matter. it is based on research and personal experience, if limited a little.
though i will say this, the twilight books sucked completely, and i think it was teh first case of the books actually being worse than the movies! xd i actually didn;t hate the 1st twilight movie at all, and it even gets bonus points for great music. |
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:55 pm
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:57 am
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I believe the idea of the classical vampire was mostly passed down through oral legends and as we know spoke words get elaborated upon more and more. We must remember that hundreds of years ago blood was regarded in a different way medically. a person who was sickly was said to have 'bad blood' and was usually bled to 'cure' them. My opinion is that perhaps a genetic anomaly occurred with Solar Urticaria or some similar light sensitivity and created the myth of a crazed monster. since these people could only go out at night they probably had to steal food from people in order to survive. There were no 24 hr ihop back then. Since bats are also only out at night it makes sense that primitive people fabricated tails about vampires turning into bats or being 'bat like' and thus the rumors grew. Many of the people with this genetic disease probably had bad burns and were disfigured by sun exposure since there really was no way to accommodate them making them appear hideous or monstrous IE the 'Nosferatu' image. I know that there were creepy people who drank blood because they were trying to rule their kingdoms with fear but the 'real life' vampires that people actually experienced were probably much different.
The Idea of immortality and vampires being attractive and beautiful creatures probably came about during the Victorian/ or post Renaissance era where the wealthy likely fantasied about such things. Hollywood then completed the myth with countless movies and added bad-assedness to vampires.
I LARP as a vampire in a game from white wolf called Vampire the Masquerade. In that game vampires are called Caininites because the theory is that we descended from Cain who was cursed by god to walk the earth forever because he killed his brother and all that jazz. but that again is just a myth that created a game.
The Idea is taken from a passage from genesis.
Then the Lord said to Cain, "Where is your brother Abel?"
"I know not," he replied. "Am I my brother's keeper?"
Then He said, "What have you done? Your brother's blood cries out to Me from the ground!
So now you are cursed [with alienation]
from the ground that opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood you have shed.
If you work the land, it will never again give you its yield. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth."
But Cain answered the Lord, "My punishment is too great to bear! Since You are banishing me today from the soil, and I must hide myself from Your presence and become a restless wanderer on the earth, whoever finds me will kill me."
Then the Lord replied to him, "Therefore,whosoever slayeth Cain vengeance will be taken on him sevenfold. " And the Lord set a Mark upon Cain,lest any finding him should kill him."(it's thought that god did curse him with a longer life for his punishment)
Then Cain went out from the Lord's presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
– Genesis 4:9-16
or
the church of latter day saints bible has this passage
And Cain gloried in that which he had done, saying: I am free; surely the flocks of my brother falleth into my hands.
34And the Lord said unto Cain: Where is Abel, thy brother? And he said: I know not. Am I my brother's keeper?
35And the Lord said: What hast thou done? The voice of thy brother's blood cries unto me from the ground.
36And now thou shalt be cursed from the earth which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand.
37When thou tillest the ground it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength. A fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
38And Cain said unto the Lord: Satan tempted me because of my brother's flocks. And I was wroth also; for his offering thou didst accept and not mine; my punishment is greater than I can bear.
39Behold thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the Lord, and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that he that findeth me will slay me, because of mine iniquities, for these things are not hid from the Lord.
40And I the Lord said unto him: Whosoever slayeth thee, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And I the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
41And Cain was shut out from the presence of the Lord, and with his wife and many of his brethren dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
– Moses 5:16-41
That is my theory stare
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:13 pm
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Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:50 am
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Chieftain Twilight Oborosen Thank you Satrevi for that breath of fresh air, and as a fact I like the twilight book. But the movie's suck balls. My understanding of vampiric origins is Biblical. Which if people want to start to look into, read the removed sections of genesis. And start from there, though Lilith isn't a vampire. She may as well be there mother. Because if It wasn't for her, Kane would still be hiding out under mount Allatu. And yes, I do have information that combats the existence of vampire's. Which is as convincing as those that say vampires do or at one time did exists. I'm just asking that people give there two cents and the be blessed for the rest of the day. That's all.. ............................ vampiric lore is not found in the bible. it is also not found in apocryphal jewish/christian/islamic scriptures. and most information about vampires from followers of the Abrahamic faiths is extremely innacurate. you should have been looking into cultural mythologies and lore, eyewitness accounts, comparing occult stories from around the globe, not delving into religious archeology. you realy don't know how to research the occult, do you? think relevency.
Why is Biblical exegesis somehow less noble or less worthy a cause than researching the mythology of the culture that spawned it? Given the importance laid on the books of the Bible, and the fact that various branches of a religion that dominate the planet are based on it, I would think if anything that ignoring the Bible completely and settling for looking elsewhere for information would be a profound mistake, most likely engendered from contempt towards Christianity in general. If you're researching, it's a good idea to use any relevant sources you can get your hands on, and for a legend that was partially grown in a religious context, taking a gander at that religion's holy book is a neat idea to see if it has anything to say about it, even if it's unlikely that their interpretation of it is inaccurate. |
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:53 am
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Quote: And yes, I do have information that combats the existence of vampire's. Which is as convincing as those that say vampires do or at one time did exists. I'm just asking that people give there two cents and the be blessed for the rest of the day.
............................
Quote: vampiric lore is not found in the bible. it is also not found in apocryphal Jewish/christian/Islamic scriptures. and most information about vampires from followers of the Abrahamic faiths is extremely inaccurate. you should have been looking into cultural mythologies and lore, eyewitness accounts, comparing occult stories from around the globe, not delving into religious archeology. you really don't know how to research the occult, do you? think relevancy.
Honestly with any occult knowledge from any ancient society or religious text everything must be taken in an allegorical or put in perspective while even then taking things with a grain of salt and applying the occultists own common sense. To make a claim that you know for a fact that there is no lore in a book about a subject is a little spurious.
Occult stories from around the globe usually are just over-elaborated oral traditions/stories that have been 'telephoned' so far from the truth that you can only take them at face value and usually have no value other than generally saying 'big scary thing that looked like this did this' and we, being yet another society try to apply our own interpretations of these stories providing absolutely no factual information about the existence or origins of what we call 'vampires'
The Hindu mythology about the vetala seems to be another possibility on the origins of vampires however these creatures could possibly cross over with the idea of a ghoul/zombie/ or pretty much any other undead.
Also check out the 'Slayer of Raktabija' from hindu mythology. Every time a blood of the demon Raktabija was spilled it made a clone of himself. Sounds modal to the vampiric conversion myths. I'd take an extra look or two at the goddess Kali (one of my interests),if I were you. She in many ways is descriptive to certain immortal/undead myths.
Even the sacred nature of 'drinking the blood of Christ' seems a little 'vampiric' if you ask me even though in Catholicism wine is substituted in modern days.
Leviticus 17:11 says "the life of a creature is in the blood."
This phrase is part of the Levitical law forbidding the drinking of blood or eating meat with the blood still intact instead of being poured off. Perhaps this adds to the apparent 'damned' image of the vampire.
and as far as religious archeology goes.. Christianity is pretty 'new' considering it's been around for only 2,000 years and Hinduism and Vedas are about 6,000 years old and is thought to be the worlds oldest documented religion. Who's to say who is right? This is about information not how old it is. Occultism is about extricating valuable information and using it. Not every word passed down orally is true to it's meaning. It's about figuring out what makes sense
Also, If I am adding information into a conversation I try to provide at least somewhat reliable resources other than "my friend said this once" or the meta-equivalent of 'this one time in band camp.. ' It's just my personal standard to provide references for my knowledge before saying anything other than what I've clearly stated as an opinion. Everything is relevant. You just have to decipher the relevancy which is the most fun part about occult research.
I know I'm new here and i don't want to make anyone pissed off at me but if someone else wants to check out and learn more about what you're talking about resources would be nice. c:
--Vittoria |
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