Apollon and Artemis - Sun and Moon?

[Akherontis]

I've noticed a lot of people on this guild (and the pixel artists of Gaia Online, furthermore) presenting Apollon and Artemis as solar and lunar deities, even if they recognize Helios and Selene to be the primary Sun and Moon gods. I'll provide a few points that may disturb this mental image.

Apollon (from the root Apollyon 'Destroyer' concerning his plague dealing aspects) was often surnamed Phoebus (Phoibos in original Greek), which is a reference to his grandmother Phoebe, a Titaness with lunar associations. Phoebe was the earthly oracle of the Titans (her husband Koios was the heavenly oracle), and her two daughters, Leto and Asteria, were the personifications of diurnal and nocturnal divination, respectively. Thus, Apollon inherited Leto's bright prophetic qualities, while the witch goddess Hekate inherited Asteria's dark, necromantic prophetic qualities. This is where the bright association came from, not from conflation with the sun.

Secondly, all of Apollon's imagery is not golden, as many people assume, but silver. He was surnamed Argurotoxos, god of the silver bow, and his chariot was silver.

Conversely, Artemis was associated with the colour gold, not with lunar silver. Her chariot was golden and it was pulled by the golden hinds, deer with antlers made of gold. Her bow was also golden.  

[Queen-of-the-Rogue]

This makes a lot of sense because I had noticed in the books I have that Artemis was the one with Gold and her brother Silver so that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for posting this and clearing it up for me at least. biggrin  

[Mizz Faith]

Oh goodness, you have definitely disturbed my mental encyclopedia! haha. I admit I'm one of those that do associate them as that and have never (to my memory) come across any literature that depicts them the way you describe them. Very interesting. I think I need to search into this (as I did with the K to C spellings you told me about previously). Its always great to find out something new - thank you Akherontis for sharing smile

 

[Akherontis]

I might also mention that certain facts about Artemis have been exaggerated. Namely her disposition between men and women. Certainly, she was a virgin goddess, and she was a protector of girls until they came of age. But she had several male favourites, notably Orion and Hippolytos.

And she was also the goddess responsible for meting out sudden death and disease to women and girls, as her brother Apollon was the destroyer of men and boys. The best example of this is her slaughter of the daughters of Niobe, whilst her brother killed the sons. This is perhaps the twins' oldest functions, as one translation for Artemis' name is 'butcher', similar to Apollon 'destroyer'.

She's not as fearsome as you'd think, however. Hera is much scarier, and proved this by defeating and humiliating her step-daughter TWICE, once during the Trojan war and again during Dionysos' war against India. If you read the texts, you'll really feel sorry for Artemis.

"[In the conflict of the gods over Troy, Apollon declined to engage Poseidon in battle.] But his sister, Artemis Agrotera (of the wild), Potnia Theron (lady of wild beasts), scolded him bitterly and spoke a word of revilement: ‘You run from him, striker from afar. You have yielded Poseidon the victory entire. He can brag, where nothing has happened. Fool, then why do you wear that bow, which is wind and nothing. Let me not hear you in the halls of my father boasting ever again, as you did before among the immortals, that you could match your strength in combat against Poseidon.’
So she spoke, but Apollon who strikes from afar said nothing to her; but [Hera] the august consort of Zeus, full of anger, scolded the lady of the showering arrows in words of revilement: ‘How have you had the daring, you shameless hussy, to stand up and face me? It will be hard for you to match your strength with mine even if you wear a bow, since Zeus has made you a lion among women, and given you leave to kill any at your pleasure. Better for you to hunt down the ravening beasts in the mountains and deer of the wilds, than try to fight in strength with your betters. But if you would learn what fighting is, come on. You will find out how much stronger I am when you try to match strength against me.’
She spoke, and caught both of her arms at the wrists in her left hand then with her own bow, smiling, boxed her ears as Artemis tried to twist away, and the flying arrows were scattered. She got under and free and fled in tears, as a pigeon in flight from a hawk wings her way into some rock-hollow and a cave, since it was not destiny for the hawk to catch her. So she left her archery on the ground, and fled weeping ... Leto picked up the curved bow and the arrows which had fallen in the turn of the dust one way and another. When she had taken up the bow she went back to her daughter. But the maiden came to the bronze-founded house on Olympos and the ambrosial veil trembled about her. Her father Kronides [Zeus] caught her against him, and laughed softly, and questioned her:
‘Who now of the Ouraniones (Heavenly Ones), dear child, has done such things to you, rashly, as if you were caught doing something wicked?’
Artemis Eustephanos Keladeine (sweet-garlanded lady of clamours) answered him: ‘It was your wife, Hera of the white arms, who hit me, father, since hatred and fighting have fastened upon the immortals." - Homer, Iliad 21.470  

[Queen-of-the-Rogue]

I remember this story but I haven't heard about the one during Dionysus's war in India.  

[Akherontis]

It was a very significant part of Olympian history that is often overlooked. Dionysos' way of proving himself as worthy of the Dodekatheon, despite having a mortal mother.

"Against Hera came highland Artemis as champion for hillranging Dionysos, and rounded her bow straight. Hera as ready for conflict seized one of the clouds of Zeus, and compressed it across her shoulders where she held it as a shield proof against all; and Artemis shot arrow after arrow moving through the airy vault in vain against that mark, until her quiver was empty, and the cloud still unbroken she covered thick with arrows all over. It was the very image of a flight of cranes moving in the air and circling one after another in the figure of a wreath: the arrows were stuck in the dark cloud, but the veil was untorn and the wounds without blood. Then Hera picked up a rough missile of the air, a frozen mass of hail, circled it and struck Artemis with the jagged mass. The sharp stony lump broke the curves of the bow. But the consort of Zeus did not stop the fight there, but struck Artemis flat on the skin of the breast, and Artemis smitten by the weapon of ice emptied her quiver upon the ground." - Nonnus, Dionysiaca 36.28  

[Queen-of-the-Rogue]

Wow. I didn't know that Hera could control parts of the sky or at least use them to her advantage and while I truly feel sorry for Artemis I can't help but be interested in the fact that Hera used the sky as her defense and offense that's very very interesting. Thanks for putting this up! biggrin  

[Akherontis]

Queen-of-the-Rogue

Wow. I didn't know that Hera could control parts of the sky or at least use them to her advantage and while I truly feel sorry for Artemis I can't help but be interested in the fact that Hera used the sky as her defense and offense that's very very interesting. Thanks for putting this up! biggrin

Why not? She is the queen of heaven after all. Of all the Olympian goddesses, she is the most beautiful, the most powerful and the most widely regarded. Of course, even with her pride and stormy temper, she is still subject to the will of Zeus.

Another lesser known fact, did you know that after the Titanomakhy, she was sent to be fostered by Okeanos and Thetis? While she came of age, Zeus courted many other goddesses, chiefly Metis, Mnemosyne and Themis, and only when Hera's beauty became well known did Zeus seduce her in the form of a cuckoo.  

[Queen-of-the-Rogue]

That's a very good point but for some reason I just never thought about that.

I didn't know she had been fostered but I did know about him seducing her in the form of the Cuckoo.  

[Akherontis]

Queen-of-the-Rogue

That's a very good point but for some reason I just never thought about that.

I didn't know she had been fostered but I did know about him seducing her in the form of the Cuckoo.

I rather like the little vignette in the Iliad where Hera comes to Hypnos and asks for his help in...distracting Zeus. Hypnos agrees after Hera promises him the betrothal of Pasithea, the youngest of the Graces. Then Hera comes to Zeus and seduces him, while Hypnos hides in a nearby tree in the form of a bird (presumably a Long-eared owl), and then casts a spell of sleep on Zeus, thus allowing Poseidon to encourage the Aikhaians against the Trojans.  

[Queen-of-the-Rogue]

Now that's Hera using her feminine wiles with help. I have to give her credit she isn't stupid. I've always felt that she was smart but so many people I know seem to think she's dumb and doesn't do anything besides taking revenge on Zeus's many lovers.  

[Akherontis]

Queen-of-the-Rogue

Now that's Hera using her feminine wiles with help. I have to give her credit she isn't stupid. I've always felt that she was smart but so many people I know seem to think she's dumb and doesn't do anything besides taking revenge on Zeus's many lovers.

I happen to have a great deal of respect for Hera, and even for Zeus. Apart from Zeus' affairs and Hera's spite, the two possess great wisdom, cunning, and majesty. A lot of people think that Aphrodite was the most beautiful of the gods, but if that were the case then Zeus would have married HER.

The story of Jason and the Argonauts is particularly of interest when considering Hera's positive qualities as a benefactress.  

[Queen-of-the-Rogue]

Zeus has to be smart and more than brute power otherwise he would have lost his throne a long time ago. I agree on the Aphrodite bit Hera had to be more beautiful because otherwise as you said Zeus would have married her instead.

I'll have to look it up. I haven't read a lot of the stories in so long because I've been so busy that I only remember bits and pieces.  

[-Philosophys King-]

Queen-of-the-Rogue

Zeus has to be smart and more than brute power otherwise he would have lost his throne a long time ago. I agree on the Aphrodite bit Hera had to be more beautiful because otherwise as you said Zeus would have married her instead.

I'll have to look it up. I haven't read a lot of the stories in so long because I've been so busy that I only remember bits and pieces.

Honestly, I believe Aphrodite was more beautiful to Zues than Hera, but because Hephestus was already married to her, and Ares was her boyfriend, he just didn't want to get into that relationship.  

[Queen-of-the-Rogue]

kingofjokers7

Queen-of-the-Rogue

Zeus has to be smart and more than brute power otherwise he would have lost his throne a long time ago. I agree on the Aphrodite bit Hera had to be more beautiful because otherwise as you said Zeus would have married her instead.

I'll have to look it up. I haven't read a lot of the stories in so long because I've been so busy that I only remember bits and pieces.

Honestly, I believe Aphrodite was more beautiful to Zeus than Hera, but because Hephaestus was already married to her, and Ares was her boyfriend, he just didn't want to get into that relationship.

No that's not true because Zeus gave her to Hephaestus to stop the gods from arguing over who's wife she should be. If she were prettier than Hera he would have married her as Akherontis stated above.