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I LIKE it.

It's been said IN the show that Dean's destined to take on Michael and kill him.

I can't actually see Dean giving in to the vessel thing. xD

But see! You're confusing what's fact in show right now and what can be fact that we don't know - just because it's said to us, doesn't mean it'll happen that way. Like, at the beginning of season four, it was "said" that the angels were trying to stop the apocalypse. They weren't.

It was said by Chuck, who's supposed to always be right, that Castiel and Dean never came to his house and there was no archangel and Dean never went to Sam. BUT, it DID happen, which proves Chuck's visions are even subject to change - and I don't think he ever claimed it was Dean's destiny, only Zacharias, who wants Dean to take Michael, said that.

And I personally think Zacharias lies. xD I don't think the future he showed was a true future, I think it was a plausible future.

Cas said all roads leads to the same destination, which could be true, but I think that if it IS, Zacharias doesn't know what the destination is. If he DID, he would be more sure of himself like Lucifer. (As for Lucy, I think he's very optimistic because he's good at getting people to side with him - Zach on he other hand, well, bless him, he's kind of horrible at the whole catching with honey rather than vinegar thing. xD)

But I think Sam and Dean are perfectly capable of not being vessels. Just because the angels keep telling them that's what'll happen, doesn't mean it is - as we know...Castiel already defied prophecies and whatnot. Even if it didn't stop the apocalypse - him siding with Dean clearly has changed things in the aftermath.


ANYWAY, I like Cas killing Lucifer. The only reason I don't see it is because of the angels killing angels thing - do archangels count in there? They're supposed to be like, serious business - Cas could hardly handle Gabriel jerking him around through where ever or Rapheal who killed him.

But Castiel would make much more sense than Sam or Dean - since angels are supposed to only be able to kill angels. And no matter how much I love those two...Them killing the devil on their own is just stupid. XD I'm soooo glad the cult wasn't something that could kill Lucifer. I mean, REALLY. It's a gun - how do you make a gun so powerful it can destroy something you've never met, that's beyond humans, and apparently, can only kill each other. (Though, I don't get the "five things" bit, but if my theory on that is right, it can kill Zacharias or Cas or something. Which...kinda sounds ridiculous to me. xD It killing angels just doesn't sit well with me at all. xD)

But the Michael's vessel thing...Dean can't do it on his own. Zacharias laughed at him. xD Though, I guess that could mean he CAN - but I really wouldn't like Dean being able to kill the devil on his own. At least not without Sam's help. And DEFINITELY Castiel's. xD

What's hard on my brain is that I think, as for the family idea of the show, Castiel or angels in general taking Lucifer down and God and whatnot, is so much more fitting. Look how ******** up their family is. xD But THEN, it takes it away from Sam and Dean doing it, and the show is about them, not some innerHeaven battle.

But they've gone and made this family connection, and brought all the archangels in to it with their angst and their longing for their family. xD (Except Michael, who kinda sounds like Future Dean when I think about him, for some reason. xD) So it's like, Dean and Sam are meant to be vessels - BUT, Castiel's family is fighting. xD Don't they need to kinda solve that themselves?

Now that I think about it...What the ******** do Sam and Dean have to be vessels for? Why can't Michael just come down and smite as an angel? Lucifer, I get. He's having a great time slowly bringing on the end of the world and screwing around. But. If he wants to destroy it, I don't get why he can't just do it in his shiny angel form and Michael can't just get him in that.

I mean, I highly doubt when he got kicked out of Heaven, they grabbed a couple of vessels to sort that out in. =|

Sam and Dean HAVE to be more important than that weird plothole of an idea. (I'm assuming it's one right now, because I can't make sense of it just yet. xD)

Didn't they say that Zach had placed some of the visions in Chuck's head? I can't remember which one it was but I swear he gave him one to trap them. Or am I confusing canon with fanon? Again.

I agree that the future can change, we make our own destiny and all that. It's heading towards being that kind of future right now, six months, Detroit, Cas' powers fading, SPOILERS pestilence coming soon with - what I'm assuming - will be the Croatoan virus but it's just a possible future, the decisions they make now will shape the future.

They can easily refuse to become vessels and I honestly think Dean will fight it right to the death, Sam will waver - because that's just Sam's character. So I don't think they'll end up being vessels. I mean, we've seen what happens to the vessels of archangels, there's still a possibility of a sixth season, making Sam and Dean immune to those effects is a load of bollocks. So I don't think they're going to be used as angel condoms in the end.

Cas did get his a** kicked by those guys but to be honest, I reckon he'll end up having more power behind him when it comes down to it. Thing is, Cas is weakened at the moment due to how long he's been away from heaven and the fact the whole place is in disarray. SPOILERS We're apparently going to see heaven in the next half of the season, meaning Cas will be back there for a juice up . I also believe that in the end, the angels will end up aligning to help the battle on Earth, which should strengthen him and if GOD's there too? It's entirely feasible.

It would also give him a reason to be around this season - as much as I love him, he is kind of a pointless regular, episodes (Changing Channels for example) would work well enough without him. Also, it would end with the battle between two brothers - which is what I believe was actually written, rather than 'an epic battle between the Winchesters'. There has to be some reason we're constantly reminded that the angels are all brothers, right?

Sam and Dean are important because they started it. Dean broke the first seal, Sam broke the final seal. Also if you think about it, they're the ones who'll have given Cas the courage to end it. Dean has shown him what it means to be human, shown him true forgiveness, they've both shown him the real meaning of family (because let's face it, heaven is a ******** up family and they're none of them especially close like Sam and Dean), they've basically given Cas the humanity he needs to finish the job.

I chose to believe Cas is more important than just being 'pretty boy angel' that's there to fawn look over Dean and glare at Sam. This show doesn't keep around just anybody.

And if that didn't make sense, blame the fact it's FOUR AM.

I thought that was perfect. razz

There's no way Cas is here to hover around like he has been. I'm drained of things to say after the archangel thread, so let's just say: I agree with you. <3

Instead of going into long winded reasons about WHY I agree. xDD

I defiantly agree with what you say. Castiel has to have a more important role in the whole war against Lucfier. I also think that Dean and Sam think of Castiel as more then just their angel friend. He is so part of their wierd little family. razz

Good Theory, though I can not even come close to supporting it.

Cas is absolutly no match for Lucifer Lucifer is an archangel, and you remember what happened when Cas was trying to warn the guys and get them out of the "Tricksters" tv shows.

Cas was no match for Gabriel, and Gabriel probibly couldn't defeat Lucifer even though Gabriel does not anwser that question for us.


And additional note about Zachs "Future for dean" We have to remember Zach can bend reality, so it is very possible zach simply put dean into a situation he believed would convince dean to say yes to micheal. It does not have to be real, only what Zach created much like when he put dean into that stuffy office job.



My theories so far:

Zach uses Chuck to try and defeat Lucifer. Zach's plan fails, and Zach is killed, Hope is probibly lost for heaven winning inless dean steps up and accepts Micheals offer.

Gabriel probibly comes back in to some degree against Lucifer after Dean let him out of the holy fire.

Lucifer has to be in a proper vessal for him to be killed.

But here is where I am on the fence are sam and dean the only proper vessals? Does "God" have a proper vessal? Is John going to make a comeback and play an important role?

Its been in my head since "On the head of a pin" That john is going to be something very important. Alastair tells dean "It was suppost to be John" reffering to bringing on the appoc. the question is why? Why was it suppost to be John. Was john the first "rightous man in hell?" Surely someone else who was rightous ended up in hell for one reaosn or another. Parhaps rightous in this case refers to a proper vessal, in which case john could come back as some important vessal such as "God" himself. And it would make since seeing as how Micheal and Lucifer were brother, and "God" was there father. Micheal clearly acted like dean, and Lucifer clearly like Sam, So does "God" (Lucifer and Micheals dad) take the form of John (Dean and Sams dad)

Anyways that is just something i've been thinking about.

I have however missed two episodes for season 5, so some new information may have come to light i'm not aware of, however i have seen seasons 1-3 twice and season 4 three times, and these theories hold up to the information that I so far have gotten from season 5