Runaway Convert

[Tirissana]

Semiremis

Maybe this will help to put things into perspective:

Raising Stakes: Sexual, Physical Abuse Claims
The teen and her lawyer raised the stakes for the hearing in documents filed this week, accusing her family of physical and sexual abuse and claiming that they are involved with an Islamic extremist organization.

John Stemberger, Bary's lawyer, told ABCNews.com the teen was sexually and physically abused by her relatives.

Rifqa "was sexually abused by her uncle and the mother was aware and never reported it," Stemberger said. "There was physical abuse by the father. He smacked her with great force, enough to slam her across the room.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8474381

So I guess there are more relatives there but the uncle at least is included as one of the accused. The family says that she is being manipulated, that they love her and that all though they would prefer her to be a Muslim she will be allowed to practice her religion.

@ Tsukiyo, If you were sitting there listening to what Rifqa was saying, if you were in a position of authority, you would take the words of her family, call her a liar and then send her back home without really looking into the case?

Again, circumstantial. Where is the physical evidence?  

[Semiremis]

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Semiremis

Maybe this will help to put things into perspective:

Raising Stakes: Sexual, Physical Abuse Claims
The teen and her lawyer raised the stakes for the hearing in documents filed this week, accusing her family of physical and sexual abuse and claiming that they are involved with an Islamic extremist organization.

John Stemberger, Bary's lawyer, told ABCNews.com the teen was sexually and physically abused by her relatives.

Rifqa "was sexually abused by her uncle and the mother was aware and never reported it," Stemberger said. "There was physical abuse by the father. He smacked her with great force, enough to slam her across the room.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8474381

So I guess there are more relatives there but the uncle at least is included as one of the accused. The family says that she is being manipulated, that they love her and that all though they would prefer her to be a Muslim she will be allowed to practice her religion.

@ Tsukiyo, If you were sitting there listening to what Rifqa was saying, if you were in a position of authority, you would take the words of her family, call her a liar and then send her back home without really looking into the case?

Again, circumstantial. Where is the physical evidence?

We went over the definition already, Rifqa was an eye witness. Circumstantial would be: 'I see some bruises on Riqa, they appeared after her family found out she left Islam and converted to Christianity, therefore the family must have abused her'.

I'm asking again, if you were in a position of authority and Rifqa went up to you and said 'my family beats me and I was sexually abused by one of them, I left because my I felt my life was in danger after my father threatened to kill me.' If she said that, would you tell her that she was lying and then send her back to her family?  

[Tirissana]

Semiremis

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Semiremis

Maybe this will help to put things into perspective:

Raising Stakes: Sexual, Physical Abuse Claims
The teen and her lawyer raised the stakes for the hearing in documents filed this week, accusing her family of physical and sexual abuse and claiming that they are involved with an Islamic extremist organization.

John Stemberger, Bary's lawyer, told ABCNews.com the teen was sexually and physically abused by her relatives.

Rifqa "was sexually abused by her uncle and the mother was aware and never reported it," Stemberger said. "There was physical abuse by the father. He smacked her with great force, enough to slam her across the room.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8474381

So I guess there are more relatives there but the uncle at least is included as one of the accused. The family says that she is being manipulated, that they love her and that all though they would prefer her to be a Muslim she will be allowed to practice her religion.

@ Tsukiyo, If you were sitting there listening to what Rifqa was saying, if you were in a position of authority, you would take the words of her family, call her a liar and then send her back home without really looking into the case?

Again, circumstantial. Where is the physical evidence?

We went over the definition already, Rifqa was an eye witness. Circumstantial would be: 'I see some bruises on Riqa, they appeared after her family found out she left Islam and converted to Christianity, therefore the family must have abused her'.

I'm asking again, if you were in a position of authority and Rifqa went up to you and said 'my family beats me and I was sexually abused by one of them, I left because my I felt my life was in danger after my father threatened to kill me.' If she said that, would you tell her that she was lying and then send her back to her family?

She's not an eye witness to anything. I would first mandate there be physical tests to be done on her, determining if she was abused and raped as she claimed. If the tests came back negative then I would sentence her to a juvenille detention center for a few days. Last I checked lying under oath or even giving a false testimony to the police is a crime.

So by siding with her, you're basically saying that it's okay to break the law. Real nice. neutral  

[Zslone2]

READ THIS POST SEMELIS ITS SO U UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT IS CONSIDERD EYE WITNESS EVICDENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
While i feel bad for the girl I don't know enough to accurately say she should go back with her parents or be put into foster care or something like it. I don't feel she should go back to the pastor seeing how she met him over the internet and I don't trust his side of the case. While what you say expresses her beliefs don't forget the Pastor if he was able to implant the thought of her parents killing her for converting he would also be able to manipulate her when investigated by the police. I'm not saying she should go back to her parents nor the pastor I'm saying more evidence needs to be brought up before anyone can accurately make a decision. Words alone mean nothing if from the Defendant and Plaintiff. You need evidence and witnesses not just words alone to make a decision so I want to hear none of its her words from her mouth and the parents could be lying don't forget the girl could be lying to. While I hope the issue is resolved and everything taken care of it won't be until chat logs are pulled up and neighbors interviewed. EYE WITNESS TESTIMONY is when someone from outside the situtation such as a friend or random person on the street, neighbors and such TESTIFYING IN COURT not the actual Planitiff or Defendant making accusations. While there words do matter when in this case neither of each parties wirds mean crap at this point. I don't care what she claims anymore I want cold hard evidence from neighbors or chatlogs not accusations from her the pastor or the family. I want to hear no more of accusations made from her until more eivdence is brought up from eye witnesses.  

[Semiremis]

Zslone2

READ THIS POST SEMELIS ITS SO U UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT IS CONSIDERD EYE WITNESS EVICDENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
While i feel bad for the girl I don't know enough to accurately say she should go back with her parents or be put into foster care or something like it. I don't feel she should go back to the pastor seeing how she met him over the internet and I don't trust his side of the case. While what you say expresses her beliefs don't forget the Pastor if he was able to implant the thought of her parents killing her for converting he would also be able to manipulate her when investigated by the police. I'm not saying she should go back to her parents nor the pastor I'm saying more evidence needs to be brought up before anyone can accurately make a decision. Words alone mean nothing if from the Defendant and Plaintiff. You need evidence and witnesses not just words alone to make a decision so I want to hear none of its her words from her mouth and the parents could be lying don't forget the girl could be lying to. While I hope the issue is resolved and everything taken care of it won't be until chat logs are pulled up and neighbors interviewed. EYE WITNESS TESTIMONY is when someone from outside the situtation such as a friend or random person on the street, neighbors and such TESTIFYING IN COURT not the actual Planitiff or Defendant making accusations. While there words do matter when in this case neither of each parties wirds mean crap at this point. I don't care what she claims anymore I want cold hard evidence from neighbors or chatlogs not accusations from her the pastor or the family. I want to hear no more of accusations made from her until more eivdence is brought up from eye witnesses.

That's exactly what I've been saying.

We don't know what's going on, we can't ignore the girls claims and send her home because we want to believe her parents. She should NOT be put in the hands of the Pastor (which she wasn't). We need to find out exactly what is going on.

I stated many times the Rifqa's family seems very loving and caring and that once we verify that that is the case (if it is) then legal action should be taken against the pastor if in fact he manipulated an underage girl. I'm just not a big fan of putting a kid back into the hands of those she claims have abused her and want her dead without actually looking into it, that would be stupid and it looks like you're in agreement with that?


We know it's not circumstantial evidence, it's the personal testimony of an individual who claims to have directly heard or seen something. So call it what you will but the accusers oftentimes are called to give their personal testimony of what happened (what they claim to have happened). Here's a case to illustrate this:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09095/960735-455.stm

It's a different case but those kids taking the stand are not offering circumstantial evidence, they are giving their personal testimony of what happened. They are eye-witnesses for the state, since it is a criminal court.  

[Tirissana]

I was reading an article about this on CNN.com and what I found funny and ironic is that Rifqa claimed to hear her father say to her that if she has this Jesus in her heart that her father will kill her. Now here's the ironic part: Muslims believe that Jesus Christ existed, not only that but he is one of the prophets of Allah. Muslim's also believe that Jesus will rise from the dead.

So if Muslims supposedly hate Christians and claim to want to kill converts of Christianity, or if Rifqa's father supposedly wants to kill her because she believes in Jesus, then why is Jesus one of Allah's prophets according to the Quran? Why would Jesus be held in high regard according to Muslims? neutral