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| ISN'T THAT JUST CRAZY? |
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Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:37 am
You believe in, say; An ethereal being who watches over you and all the world, An afterlife Some sins?
Because there are so very many people(the majority of Christians I know) who believe in just these. Does that mean they really are Christian? Or are they following some sort of other religion? Because don't all/most religions have these kind of beliefs?
Excuse me if I'm very uninformed, because I don't know much about any religion.
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Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:11 am
For a person to be a Christian, their beliefs must in some way involve Jesus Christ. Usually it means that they look to Christ for forgiveness of their sins and for salvation, and they follow his teachings.
The other things that you said, believing in God, an afterlife, and sins, are all part of Christianity, but I think since the word comes from Christ, it really has to involve him in some way.
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:50 am
Crimson Raccoon For a person to be a Christian, their beliefs must in some way involve Jesus Christ. Usually it means that they look to Christ for forgiveness of their sins and for salvation, and they follow his teachings. The other things that you said, believing in God, an afterlife, and sins, are all part of Christianity, but I think since the word comes from Christ, it really has to involve him in some way. So if you follow all that and Jesus(I forgot to put that part in) you're Christian? Because it doesn't seem right to me. confused Like their should be more kinda sub-catergories for different kinds of Christianity. Because a lot of people I know consider themselves Christian(Catholic usually) but yet they believe and follow very little in that faith. But I suppose yes, they do believe in the main ideas. confused
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:32 am
Well..... That is a good question. First, let us look at Christianity. The word "Christian" means to be a follower of Jesus, or one of my definitions is a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ. The means to be a Christian mostly concerns with the heart of the individual. To believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and to be forgiven of your sins and to have them washed away by the Grace of God.
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:26 pm
Retard Cow So if you follow all that and Jesus(I forgot to put that part in) you're Christian? Because it doesn't seem right to me. confused Like their should be more kinda sub-catergories for different kinds of Christianity. Because a lot of people I know consider themselves Christian(Catholic usually) but yet they believe and follow very little in that faith. But I suppose yes, they do believe in the main ideas. confused I agree that someone who says they are a Christian shouldn't just say that if they only believe and practice very little. Christ said that there would be many people who consider themselves to be his followers, but when the day of judgment comes, he will say to them, "I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness." (Matthew 7:21-23) So we need to be diligent to seek out what the Bible really says we must do to be saved. Just calling ourselves a "Christian" really makes no difference. The Bible is full of criticism for people who claim to be religious but are hypocritical. The book of James especially emphasizes not just hearing the teachings of Bible and claiming to be a Christian, but actually following all the teachings of the Bible, and putting them into action. Be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.... If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. (James 1:22-26) What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? ... Faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (James 2:14-17) By "works" he means actions following the teachings of the Bible, good deeds, etc. Some people actually think that because Christ has and will forgive them of all their sins, that it really doesn't matter how they live, since they'll be forgiven no matter what. Paul addressed people who thought this way: Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? (Romans 6:1-2) If we still continue sinning and aren't resisting it and improving ourselves, how can we really say we're Christians? Anyone who truly trusts in Christ for their salvation, will naturally take his teaching to heart and apply it to their lives. But a lot of Christians our age are young in the faith and haven't really put a lot of personal though into what the religion they've grown up in is about, so it makes sense that a lot of them won't act especially "Christian." Not that that is an excuse for them, it's just the way things are, unfortunately. Also, though the Bible speaks a lot of criticism against those who claim to be followers and really aren't, it also makes clear that it is not our place to judge. We can never say to someone who claims to be a Christian, "You are not a Christian, and you're going to hell." Only God knows their heart. Good sections of the Bible to read about this topic are the book of James, and Matthew chapter 7. James is all about what true religion, true faith, and true wisdom are. Matthew 7 covers the issues of judging other people, hypocrites, false Christians, and the difference between someone who hears the Word and follows it, and someone who hears it but doesn't follow it.
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:18 pm
you are a christian if you have been saved...and mean it, have been baptised, and believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins.
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:31 pm
Actually you're a Christian if God says you're a Christian. How does one know then? I would say no one can ever be 100% certain, but others will disagree.
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Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:32 pm
SANGO25 you are a christian if you have been saved...and mean it, have been baptised, and believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins. You don't have to be baptised to be a Christian. Baptism is just a sign to show you are Christian. I do however agree that you are Christian if you have been saved...meaning you accepted Jesus Christ into your heart (not your literal blood-pumping heart) and ask Him to forgive you for your sins. As a Christian there are so many more things you should do...
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:09 pm
genbounty SANGO25 you are a christian if you have been saved...and mean it, have been baptised, and believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins. You don't have to be baptised to be a Christian. Baptism is just a sign to show you are Christian. I do however agree that you are Christian if you have been saved...meaning you accepted Jesus Christ into your heart (not your literal blood-pumping heart) and ask Him to forgive you for your sins. As a Christian there are so many more things you should do... I would say a Christian should be baptized though, because Jesus was baptized and He didn't need to show people He was a Christian. Especially not through baptism. So perhaps that serves more purposes than simply showing you're a Christian.
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:57 pm
OneWithDunamis genbounty SANGO25 you are a christian if you have been saved...and mean it, have been baptised, and believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins. You don't have to be baptised to be a Christian. Baptism is just a sign to show you are Christian. I do however agree that you are Christian if you have been saved...meaning you accepted Jesus Christ into your heart (not your literal blood-pumping heart) and ask Him to forgive you for your sins. As a Christian there are so many more things you should do... I would say a Christian should be baptized though, because Jesus was baptized and He didn't need to show people He was a Christian. Especially not through baptism. So perhaps that serves more purposes than simply showing you're a Christian. ok so Baptism is the PUBLIC display of faith. a symbolic dunking to show that you have died to sin and risen with Christ. the word "Christian" means Christ-like. it implies that we are emulating Yeshua the Christ. we cannot judge others, only our own hearts. so the question is, "Are YOU a Christian?" dont answer, just think on it a little.
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:25 pm
promised_child OneWithDunamis genbounty SANGO25 you are a christian if you have been saved...and mean it, have been baptised, and believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins. You don't have to be baptised to be a Christian. Baptism is just a sign to show you are Christian. I do however agree that you are Christian if you have been saved...meaning you accepted Jesus Christ into your heart (not your literal blood-pumping heart) and ask Him to forgive you for your sins. As a Christian there are so many more things you should do... I would say a Christian should be baptized though, because Jesus was baptized and He didn't need to show people He was a Christian. Especially not through baptism. So perhaps that serves more purposes than simply showing you're a Christian. ok so Baptism is the PUBLIC display of faith. a symbolic dunking to show that you have died to sin and risen with Christ. the word "Christian" means Christ-like. it implies that we are emulating Yeshua the Christ. we cannot judge others, only our own hearts. so the question is, "Are YOU a Christian?" dont answer, just think on it a little. Some would disagree, but I would argue that people can never know without a reasonable doubt they are indeed Christians and will enter heaven after death.
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:24 pm
OneWithDunamis Some would disagree, but I would argue that people can never know without a reasonable doubt they are indeed Christians and will enter heaven after death. Feel free to argue that opinion. But... just stating an opinion isn't making an argument. =) What are your reasons for this belief? Does it have any support from the Bible? I'm one of those people who would disagree. =P But I'd like to hear you out.
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:52 pm
Crimson Raccoon OneWithDunamis Some would disagree, but I would argue that people can never know without a reasonable doubt they are indeed Christians and will enter heaven after death. Feel free to argue that opinion. But... just stating an opinion isn't making an argument. =) What are your reasons for this belief? Does it have any support from the Bible? I'm one of those people who would disagree. =P But I'd like to hear you out. I go by Calvinist beliefs. Well, I see it as the right Christian beliefs (not as an attack to those who don't agree with me of course). I'll use an example for each of its five most common points. I'm only using one passage for each for now, but there are quite a handful for each of the following points. Total depravity: We're all sinful since birth and even before. Psalms 51:5-6 Unconditional selection: God chooses His believers; on our own we would never choose God willingly. John 6:35-40 Limited Atonement: Not everyone is saved. Mark 4:10-12 Hmm... it seems my own notes ended there. If you want to know more feel free to look them up. It's not such an obscure belief that the sources are limited. Hope that kinda helped smile
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:23 am
OneWithDunamis Crimson Raccoon OneWithDunamis Some would disagree, but I would argue that people can never know without a reasonable doubt they are indeed Christians and will enter heaven after death. Feel free to argue that opinion. But... just stating an opinion isn't making an argument. =) What are your reasons for this belief? Does it have any support from the Bible? I'm one of those people who would disagree. =P But I'd like to hear you out. I go by Calvinist beliefs. Well, I see it as the right Christian beliefs (not as an attack to those who don't agree with me of course). I'll use an example for each of its five most common points. I'm only using one passage for each for now, but there are quite a handful for each of the following points. Total depravity: We're all sinful since birth and even before. Psalms 51:5-6 Unconditional selection: God chooses His believers; on our own we would never choose God willingly. John 6:35-40 Limited Atonement: Not everyone is saved. Mark 4:10-12 Hmm... it seems my own notes ended there. If you want to know more feel free to look them up. It's not such an obscure belief that the sources are limited. Hope that kinda helped smile Calvinism. Yeah, that's not at all an obscure system of theology, you can be confident of that. John Calvin was one of the most influential men of the Protestant Reformation, second perhaps only to Martin Luther. The Puritans who came over to America were mostly Calvinists, and it is still not an uncommon Christian belief today. You know, though, that Calvinism does teach that a Christian can have assurance of their salvation? In the five points of Calvinism you mentioned, with the acronym T.U.L.I.P., the fifth point is "Perseverance of the Saints," which teaches that once a person has been saved, they cannot lose their salvation. The word "Saint" here is used in the general sense of the word, the way the Bible uses it, which just means anyone who is a Christian. What comes along with this teaching of perseverance is that it is possible for a person to be assured of their salvation. Even though we will surely have doubts at one time or another, by faith we should trust that he who began a good work in us will complete it. That faith will bring us through those times of doubt; without it we might fall into despair. Here's a quote from Calvin on the issue of assurance and confidence of salvation: "The principal hinge on which faith turns is this—that we must not consider the promises of mercy, which the Lord offers, as true only to others, and not to ourselves; but rather make them our own, by embracing them in our hearts. Hence arises that confidence, which the same apostle in another place calls 'peace.'" (from Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book III, Chapter II, Section 16. Translated by John Allen) Calvin is a little difficult to read, since he wrote in the 1500's, before Shakespeare was born. But hopefully this is a good enough translation to get his meaning across. Calvinism does teach that someone can be confident that they are a saved Christian, if they know that they have faith in Jesus Christ. Of course, you shouldn't believe in having assurance of salvation just because John Calvin taught it and you consider yourself to be a Calvinist; your decision on the matter should be based on the Bible. Here's a couple verses often used to support this teaching: And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. - Philippians 1:6 The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom. To him be the glory forever and ever. Amen. - 2 Timothy 4:18 From these two verses, we see that Paul had confidence that those he wrote to in the church of Philippi were saved; and confidence that he himself was saved. So, why not believe that we also can have that confidence? Calvin's teaching on the Perseverance of the Saints is often misunderstood to be a "once saved, always saved" philosophy, which would allow someone to say that, now that they're a Christian, they can do whatever they want and not need to worry about punishment. That's really not what Calvin taught; that would be a "perseverance of the sinner" philosophy. If someone acts in such a way, it is evidence that they are really not saved, as Paul addresses in his letter to the Romans, in chapter 6. I wrote some about this in an earlier post in this thread. The other point of Calvinism that hasn't already been covered between the two of us, is the doctrine of Irrestiable Grace, which is the teaching that whoever God wants to save, nothing can stop him from saving, not even the person who is being saved. Simply, a person cannot resist the grace of God. The process of salvation does occur willingly, but this is because the Holy Spirit has healed that person's will to no longer be corrupted by the sin which turns us away from God. The Five Points of Calvinism, "TULIP" : Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irrestable Grace, Perseverance of the Saints.
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:20 am
Thanks for the clarification. And that's kinda what I meant by "some will disagree" razz It's just personally I don't know for myself. That's why I said that.
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