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Lumanny the Space Jew

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:00 pm


Just wondering.. I've heard about the ritual of the "Hevrah K'dishah" for preparing the dead for burial.

What does this have to do with beiing an organ donor? Which is more important?

I've heard that a body can be cremated after the Hevrah K'dishah, but does that apply to organs?


I just thought of that while watching Scrubs.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:53 am


1. The chevrah kadishah is, literally translated, "holy society," that is, a group of volunteers who engage in the sacred duty of preparing the dead for burial. The ritual itself is called taharah ("purification") and involves washing the body, saying a few brachot and tehillim ("blessings" and "psalms"), dressing the deceased in the tachrichim ("burial garments") of white, and taking the other measures necessary to prepare the body of the deceased for proper burial. This is done because the body, while not holy in itself, was once the vessel for a living soul, and therefore is worthy of being shown respect.

2. From http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/282548/jewish/The-Basics.htm:

"The Jewish Way--Interment in the Earth. Jewish law is unequivocal in its insistence that the body, in its entirety, be returned to the earth, in a way that allows for the natural process of its decomposition and re-integration with its primordial source--the soil of which it was formed. It also insists that in the interim between death and interment, the integrity and dignity of the body be respected and preserved. Thus Torah law forbids embalming the body (which involves disposing much of the body's innards and "re-making" its hollowed-out shell), displaying it (a vulgar affront to its dignity and privacy) or cremating it (which prematurely and violently destroys it). Autopsies, which violate the body's integrity and almost always result in parts of it not achieving proper burial, are likewise forbidden, except in extreme circumstances (a qualified rabbi should be consulted in such cases)."

In addition to the halachic prohibition against cremation, I've always felt it very strange (which is my diplomatic way of saying I find it repugnant) that people whose parents and grandparents were once gassed and then burned in crematoria would ever tolerate having their own or their relatives' flesh destroyed in the same way voluntarily.

3. The body is not to be destroyed, nor humiliated, nor mutilated in any way. However, this does not apply to organ donation. Why? Because there is the principle called pikuach nefesh ("preservation of the soul [within the body]" -- please do click that link, because it's very interesting). This principle, derived from the Torah, simply means that a living person's need takes precedence over the dead person's need because the dead person should be respected, but is factually beyond help. When organs are donated, they are taken in order to save a life -- to preserve a soul within its body -- rather than for the purpose of corpse mutilation or destruction. Then the body is repaired neatly so as to look as normal as possible, the way it looked in life, and then washed and prepared for burial as noted above.

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Lumanny the Space Jew

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:51 pm


Wow. I always love the back-and-forth interpretations and loppholes in Judaism. Thanks, Divash!

By the way, I have a friend who likes to joke that she is in love with her cat. How would Judaism view a serious case like this?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:29 pm


Leviticus (Sh'mot) 18:23
כג וּבְכָל-בְּהֵמָה לֹא-תִתֵּן שְׁכָבְתְּךָ, לְטָמְאָה-בָהּ; וְאִשָּׁה, לֹא-תַעֲמֹד לִפְנֵי בְהֵמָה לְרִבְעָהּ--תֶּבֶל הוּא.
23 And thou shalt not lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith; neither shall any woman stand before a beast, to lie down thereto; it is perversion.

You can love your spouse in one way, your parents in another way, your kids in another way, your pets in yet another way. You can even 'love' literature, sports, food, or fashion. There are a lot of types of love. It's fine to love your cat, but you shouldn't have romantic and/or sexual love for your cat.

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Lumanny the Space Jew

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:30 pm


Do elaborate. My little sister once had a crush on our dog, Mindy, and since then the concept's been on my mind.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:48 am


I'd rather not elaborate, since "in love" isn't just a romantic attachment but also a sexual attraction, and I really get queasy when thinking about cross-species stuff of that nature. Plus, I'm pretty sure it's not suitable for our younger Gaians to read about. The commandment is "Don't do it," and I'm thinking that's pretty straightforward, no elaboration needed.

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Lumanny the Space Jew

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:14 pm


Fair enough.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:51 pm


Thanks for making me feel ill. Lol.

On the subject of organ donation: Couldn't you argue that if someone's life can only be preserved via organ donation, then their bodies have failed and they were meant to die, and keeping them living is keeping their souls from Hashem?

I'm a Determinist, by the way.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:05 pm


Behatzlacha-S
Thanks for making me feel ill. Lol.

On the subject of organ donation: Couldn't you argue that if someone's life can only be preserved via organ donation, then their bodies have failed and they were meant to die, and keeping them living is keeping their souls from Hashem?

I'm a Determinist, by the way.
The beauty of Judaism is that philosophical banter is ignored in times of practical necessity. That's why shomer negiah is set aside for the purposes of first aid and medical treatment. HaShem can always wait for our souls. That's what makes Hitler's concept of "useless mouths" anything but halachic.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:26 pm


Behatzlacha-S
Why is American beer like making love in a canoe?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:30 pm


I lol'd.

Now, lets take a look at face transplants (which have just come about), and brain transplants (which will be employed for the first time in the next few years). What are your views on these more controversial operations?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:01 pm


I would say Behatz is off-topic, but the topic is queeries on Judaism and that is quit legitamite and actually directly related to my first question. I do worry about my friend, though...In Sex-Ed she asked what would happen if a human and a cat..Nevermind.

"But this body's just a loner!"-Lumanny

Lumanny the Space Jew

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:49 pm


Let me answer that question - nothing. Different species cannot produce mixed species young. There are exceptions, like lions and tigers can mate, but cats and humans do not equal people with cat heads.

Let me go on to science: a Chimera is an embryo made with the genes of several species including a human one. However, there is no way it can survive to foetus, as it is unnatural and is basically a bundle of cells doomed to die. Theoretically, Chimeras, if they could survive, would be half-breeds. But that possibility is removed by a law stating that all Chimeras must be exterminated after experiments are finished. This is the closest you'll get to minotaurs and centaurs, fantasy fans!
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