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I have/am doing an evil evil thing(s) on the extended boards right now. I am posting as an uber-rightwing christian rofl . But unlike the actual Christians on Gaia, I am arguing with logic and grace, instead of quoting scripture or reducing my arguments to infantile phrases like "GAYS SUCK scream ". With a little more time, I think I might even change a few minds lol .

If this does not prove my theories on chaos; nothing will. blaugh

You aren't being any better of a Christian than most Chistians on Gaia, as if Gaia were a comparable representation of all the world's Christians, because you are lying about being a Christian on those forums. You're a hypocrite feigning a hypocrite.

It is true that many Christians are hypocritical. I am a Christian, and I will promise you I have been a hypocrite at times. Does it make me any worse of a Christian? No. But you wouldn't know that, because you obviously aren't very familiar with the Christian faith.

Christians aren't the only hypocrites, people of other faiths and of no faith are hypocritical all the time.

Christians get more ridicule for being hypocritical simply because they are Christians. People have an idea of what they are "supposed to be," and when they don't live up to that, they become hypocrites in their own faith. It doesn't make it right, or okay, but it happens.

It is a myth that Christians are supposed to be perfect. We are still human, and therefore will not achieve perfection for as long as we remain human. Nowhere in the Bible does it say a word about Christians being perfect. We are simply to have the integrity to continually strive for perfection, since that is the best that we are capable of. And God knows and is prepared for the occassional slip.

The Bible also doesn't say that when you sin it makes you any worse of a Christian. It doesn't. Once you reconcile your life to Christ, sinning doesn't take away your salvation. However, we are supposed to sincerely repent of our sins.

The most important point is this: Christians are human.

We are not a separate species to be condemned separately. All humans are imperfect and are going to mess up sometimes. Some people are going to mess up a lot. You can't say that hypocracy is a trait common to Christians, because that's not the whole truth. The whole truth is that hypocracy is a trait common to and condemnable in the entire human race.

You overlook a major facet of Christianity, and that is forgiveness. God forgives Christians for the sins they commit against Him and each other, and we forgive those who sin against us. People screw up, because we are imperfect beings. The real folly is in not forgiving those screw-ups.

So, if you were "a better Christian than most" without even being a Christian, you would forgive Christians for being hypocritical, and therefore would not have posted this blazingly arrogant topic.

You obviously didn't register a word that I said.

And on top of that, your argument against abortion was alright. I could have made it better, because I believe what I'm saying.

One may assume that when a person can rationalize so well something that he doesn't even believe in, he might realize the folly in such disbelief...

Instead, I choose to see this exercise as proof of disbelief rather than a folly. Though it is not just Christianity I have a problem with. I could argue as equally well for Buddhism or Taoism or Atheism or Scientifism or anything you'd like. I feel that this is only possible because the universe is random and a person can weave any metanarrative they want to imagine through this chaos, create any story, or "-ism" that they can think of.

I happened to chose Christianity for this experiment because 1) I had just finished reading the Screwtape Letters and bemoaned the fact that there seemed to be no more logical Christians of the caliber of C.S. Lewis on the Gaia boards (or dare I say the world?) anymore, and 2) Because of this lack of logical Christians, I felt as though anti-Christians were becoming cocky and were persecuting Christians in the same way they whine about being persecuted themselves (when we all know damn well that only a fraction of them have really been persecuted by any Christians).

Though I must add that you Purete are one of the most logical Christian I have met. Be afraid, because you are becoming a part of an ever decreasing minority. If there were more people like you, I would not have to do what I am doing. Or more accurately, if there were more people like you, I could not get away with what I am doing

The Screwtape Letters is a great book. And CS Lewis is a great author. You might enjoy Til We Have Faces, a reworking of the Greek mythology of Cupid and Psyche, also by CS Lewis. And to conclude being off topic...Mere Christianity is excellent as well.

I realize that I am part of a dying species, and am flattered. However, that dying species is not a small segment of Christians who maintain a reverence for reason, but a segment of the human race as a whole who are, most unfortunately, losing touch with reason.

This is one of my favorite philosophical quotes, by Cicero:
The wise are instructed by reason; ordinary minds, by experience; the stupid, by necessity; and brutes by instinct.

It isn't only a part that this is happening to. It is the whole. Which is why, as you said, you find it also in Hinduism, Taoism, Scientology, Atheism, anti-Christians and wherever else humans exist. It isn't a belief-specific problem. It is a species-specific problem.

Hate to break this but I think I have to.I'm a Christian,but I'm not good.No one is,for the only good is God/Jesus.We're only either saved or doomed(but can be saved) Christians.(just a clarification for us christians)

About abortion,it is an act of malevolence.In my opinion,abortion is just a way to lighten financial probs(or other reasons).Sometimes,people are just confused and would resolve to abortion.But there are a lot of ways other than this.

So you consider a logical arguement which leads them in a difinitive and purposeful direction...........chaotic? You'll have to explain that one to me sometime.

But, consider this. You BEING a christian and christianity BEING true....are not related. Therefore it would be completely possible to convince another of something that turns out to be absolutely true even if you yourself do not think it is true. That is an easily writeable thought experiment. Again....based on everything I have said about God and religion before. Everything you can say AGAINST religion is EXACTLY as valid when turned around and used FOR religion.

The fact that you can convince people that Christianity is true in spite of not believing it COULD be considered proof for its absolute truth since the truth of a matter is not in your intentions behind your actions but in the matter itself.

As I have stated....and now you have stated....no logical arguement for religion or the existence of God will ever be "proof" in the terms of truth. You cannot logicall lead yourself to the truth of the matter about such things as the exact same logical proofs COULD be used to prove the opposite. You and I are saying the same thing.

The difference is that to me, the fact that you are using the same system in order to argue for opposing points of view, or claiming that you could potentially pick any point of view and use the same method to convince people proves to me that it isn't chaotic, that it is patternous. So long as the arguement is valid.....then it is not chaotic, it is systematic. You are using a system to attempt to "prove" to someone, something....you are saying the system itself isn't flawed, but the subsitutions people make for the variables within is not constant.

I agree, I just don't see how using a system....provides proof in any form for chaos.



And this here, only dissreguards that perhaps there is a unified direction they are headed, meaning that they are all logically valid but they are not sound....sound meaning proving truth. So the direction IS the same...forward.

Allow an example. Time. Time is not chaotic. It is relative to the physical objects in the universe and therefore DIFFERENT for every one singular thing when compared to another thing based on their distances appart as well as their general velocity. Since time is different for every object does that mean that time is chaotic? Not at all, no matter what the differences in the EXPERIENCE of time is for any one object there is a pattern to the way it experiences it's own time, and in point of fact, in the DIRECTION in which it experiences time. It is constantly moving forward, and not backward, things do not age in reverse, they do not travel backward in time to re-experience things they already have experienced.

I have a co-ordinate system in fact that resembles precisely what you are talking about above and in fact says that exactly what you are saying is not the case actually IS the case. It is the system of world lines. World lines are the connection of linear formations between certain events. While each world line is actually only disribing the distance in space and time between events that are related to it causually there is this web formed between causual world lines. You can map the causual chain at present backward to any one point and realize there is a string of forward moving time causes that have built upon each other to present this event, including (but not limited to) human cognition and the act of measuring the event itself (Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle). Therefore you are incorrect in your view of things. They have different world lines that happen to not be causually connected in any way and so they appear chaotic, but in point of fact they causually, logically, mathmatically, and scientifically (quantumly) related and travel in the same direction.

Translated into philosophical terms, at best, all you've said is that different religions and points of view happen to come to their conclusions using the same system.....IE: logic, and that it validates their arguements but doesn't confirm their truth, or their Soundness. Just because an arguement is convincing and valid does not make it sound....or true, claiming that you've somehow....logically.....proven chaos.....is quite simply missunderstanding both terms. That is akin to saying you've discovered a Batchelor who was married. You simply cannot have both.