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 Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:36 am
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-xXGodslayer_RaiXx- Siren of Saturn -xXGodslayer_RaiXx- Siren of Saturn Ricette Um, if thats not how "God" made us, then why are there Gay people? And how can America at least call itself home of the free if we shut down an institution that is not exclusively Christian or any of the main Monotheistic religions to same sex couples? You no longer need a God to keep people together or to marry someone. You got judges, Vegas, etc. And everyone only thinks its wrong these days because a rather archaic (my opinion) book says so. If there was no bible, no guidebook for faith, would we still feel this way? I doubt it about it. And yeah I have been expecting these sort of responses, this is a predominately Christian guild. I just hope none of you stood in front of court houses or anything with those picket signs saying God Hates Fags or Fags Make God Cry. Those are the type of people this world would be better off without. No, i would never stand infront of the court house. I would go to the gay marches and parades and try and find someone and invite them for a cup of coffee and a game of checkers. I would want to talk and develop a relationship with them. Not beat them senseless with a bible and broomstick. A lot of good that would do. We are in a christian forum. As i said earlier, i don't care if it's America, Liberia, Canada, or freaking Poland. I'm talking about right and wrong. *sigh* "Um, if thats not how "God" made us, then why are there Gay people?"Why are their lairs, murderers, adulterers, fornicators, and abusers? God can't create sin. This is seriously such a simple concept. God can't have anything to do with sin, hence He sent His son Jesus so He could bridge that gap and clean our sin for us. God soooo didn't create gay people. Wow . Please don't tell people that either, because if God did create Gay people, than God creates murderess, rapists, Hitler, and a whole lot of other bad people. Gay people aren't bad. Their sin is bad. Murder is bad. Murder is sin. Hitler was a person, he could have been a good person, but what he did is what separated him from the love of Christ. And not to be rude..but if your not a christian*which by the sound of your last paragraph i assume that your not?*, then may i ask, with all the politeness in the world...why are you in a christian guild? God gave us free-will and her you are contradicting God. Now that seems a little hypocritical don't you think. The Bible also contradicts God. I don't think God had a hand in writing the Bible. I think it was all man's doing. But that is my opinion as a Deist. (A Deist is someone who believes in God but thinks that God doesn't care about humanity. Look around you. You have Christians fighting each other and non-believers, chaos enuses. Even if God gave us free-will he would still intervene that is what a loving parent is supposed to do.) ? How am i contradicting God? Yeah, We have the option to murder. We have the option to be gay. How is this contradicting God?....*sigh* Deist. Freaking church. Ya know, there wouldn't be any of you around if we were all taught right. Sorry how that sounded, didn't mean to be mean. Just didn't know how to classify how people like you think. But it's seriously not your fault and honestly, i don't blame you. Most of the churches preach such bizarre and horribly incorrect teachings that people think God gives people cancer to test them or will kill a spouse or loved one for some other hokey reason. It's all crap. How many times have you heard that? *sigh* I'm going to make a post that talks about this. It should be interesting. God can't do a single thing when we walk away from him..and it's usually during this time that we need all the intervening we can get. People ask why...God doesn't chase us, ans if we leave, it breaks his heart, but he can't force us to stay in our little nest or never leave. Or else that would be like a tyranny or dictatorship. Not very loving or compassionate. By saying it's not right and saying they are going to Hell. You do not force your beliefs on another person. Is that something Jesus would do? NO! Would Jesus tell them that they were wrong and condemn them to hell? NO! God gave us the right to chose our destiny or our fate. That is between us and God. Not between eachother. No mortal has the right to tell someone what they are doing is wrong Me being Deist has nothing to do with 'church'. In fact Church doesn't make Christianity. You don't need to go to Church to believe in God. Your temple is your body, or your home. You can pray and worship him at home. And Sunday isn't the day of Sabbath. Saturday is the 7th day not Sunday. Sunday is day 1. Friday is day 6. Saturday is day 7. Look at your calendar. I'm a deist because of the FOLLOWERS. The followers are the one's who have turned me away not the churches. The very people who contradict God. If God is so loving then why to most Christians teach of hatred of other people? Why do people hate gays? Why are they against people being happy? Why? Is it because of this free-will that we go against God? Or did God really want us to be such hateful creatures?
When or where did i say that they are going to hell? I don't believe anywhere. If you want to make out to be someone that hates gay people and think they go to hell then that's your view. I think all sinners go to hell, not just gay people. I would go to hell too if i didn't receive God's grace and salvation. I'm not any better than you or anyone else. I don't at all. One of my good friends is bi and ive known her since 7th grade, i'm 18 now. I can actually talk to her about these kinds of things have a friendly conversation with her. Why is it that you seem to get so angry and such? When have i hated or cursed you? When did i even bring up that church is on a sunday. Yes, i knew that sabbath is on saturday. I've been to temple before. When am i forcing my beliefs on another person? If you haven't looked, this is a christian guild. So if you come in here and aren't a christian, then it's quite the other way around. Your forcing your views on other people. As i said, Christian guild. As i mentioned before to someone else
Quote: Yes, it is open to anyone. But it is a christian guild. A synagogue is also open to anyone, but you wouldn't want a bunch of gamblers and thieves coming in and totally desecrating the place. This guild is supposed to be some sort of safe haven, where people can talk about what they believe in their faith and not feel like someone's going to have to jump down their throat and say "well that's just close minded!" "that's your way of thinking!" yes...it is...hence "christian" guild. And not "everyone come in and debate my religious philosophy" guild. I was taking to the creator of this thread and we had a lovely discussion pming. There is no reason we can't do that, and i'm totally fine. But this is a place where we can find strength in our brothers and sisters in Christ. It's good to be challenged and tested, but that's what the world is for. I hope this makes sense and your not offended. Have i treated anyone with disrespect? I would like to say no. I'm just pointing out what i believe for the doctrines that Christ taught.
I know church doesn't make christianity, that's stupid. Christianity means to "be like Christ" but a lot of people are turned off by it because of what some churches teach or how christians act. I'm sorry for assuming that that is where you got your teaching and dislike for christians, but if you get angry and bitter at me so easily, then are you really any better than they are? Your jumping down my throat for things i haven't even said. I would love to get to know people and try and help them, not condemn them. I know what it's like when the church condemns you and other christians look down on you or think they are "better" than you. I've been there. Christians teach this hatred that you speak of because of the false doctrines that have infiltrated the church. And that is a result of people listening to other people or things, and not the true voice of truth of the holy spirit.
...*sigh*
satan. We always blame God, why not blame the bad guy for once. We never talk about him, but always God. I could get into things that would probably blow you away in a matter of what satan can do and has done. (i'm pentecostal, and so are my parents) People always want to blame everything bad that happens on God. God=giver of Good and perfect things. Satan=giver of bad and evil things. God says in his word that if anyone of you asks for a piece of bread, would a parent give you a stone? Then then would God, being our heavenly father, want to give you bad things? He doesn't want to and that's not Him.
God is good. all the time. Even when we don't understand things or know why they happen. Satan is the father of lies, hate, murder, and the prince of darkness. It is because of free will, that we choose to go against God.
I hope that clears at least something up. I don't mean for this to be rude or hateful at all. I'm just trying to explain something. That's all. |
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:34 pm
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Siren of Saturn -xXGodslayer_RaiXx- Siren of Saturn -xXGodslayer_RaiXx- Siren of Saturn No, i would never stand infront of the court house. I would go to the gay marches and parades and try and find someone and invite them for a cup of coffee and a game of checkers. I would want to talk and develop a relationship with them. Not beat them senseless with a bible and broomstick. A lot of good that would do. We are in a christian forum. As i said earlier, i don't care if it's America, Liberia, Canada, or freaking Poland. I'm talking about right and wrong. *sigh* "Um, if thats not how "God" made us, then why are there Gay people?"Why are their lairs, murderers, adulterers, fornicators, and abusers? God can't create sin. This is seriously such a simple concept. God can't have anything to do with sin, hence He sent His son Jesus so He could bridge that gap and clean our sin for us. God soooo didn't create gay people. Wow . Please don't tell people that either, because if God did create Gay people, than God creates murderess, rapists, Hitler, and a whole lot of other bad people. Gay people aren't bad. Their sin is bad. Murder is bad. Murder is sin. Hitler was a person, he could have been a good person, but what he did is what separated him from the love of Christ. And not to be rude..but if your not a christian*which by the sound of your last paragraph i assume that your not?*, then may i ask, with all the politeness in the world...why are you in a christian guild? God gave us free-will and her you are contradicting God. Now that seems a little hypocritical don't you think. The Bible also contradicts God. I don't think God had a hand in writing the Bible. I think it was all man's doing. But that is my opinion as a Deist. (A Deist is someone who believes in God but thinks that God doesn't care about humanity. Look around you. You have Christians fighting each other and non-believers, chaos enuses. Even if God gave us free-will he would still intervene that is what a loving parent is supposed to do.) ? How am i contradicting God? Yeah, We have the option to murder. We have the option to be gay. How is this contradicting God?....*sigh* Deist. Freaking church. Ya know, there wouldn't be any of you around if we were all taught right. Sorry how that sounded, didn't mean to be mean. Just didn't know how to classify how people like you think. But it's seriously not your fault and honestly, i don't blame you. Most of the churches preach such bizarre and horribly incorrect teachings that people think God gives people cancer to test them or will kill a spouse or loved one for some other hokey reason. It's all crap. How many times have you heard that? *sigh* I'm going to make a post that talks about this. It should be interesting. God can't do a single thing when we walk away from him..and it's usually during this time that we need all the intervening we can get. People ask why...God doesn't chase us, ans if we leave, it breaks his heart, but he can't force us to stay in our little nest or never leave. Or else that would be like a tyranny or dictatorship. Not very loving or compassionate. By saying it's not right and saying they are going to Hell. You do not force your beliefs on another person. Is that something Jesus would do? NO! Would Jesus tell them that they were wrong and condemn them to hell? NO! God gave us the right to chose our destiny or our fate. That is between us and God. Not between eachother. No mortal has the right to tell someone what they are doing is wrong Me being Deist has nothing to do with 'church'. In fact Church doesn't make Christianity. You don't need to go to Church to believe in God. Your temple is your body, or your home. You can pray and worship him at home. And Sunday isn't the day of Sabbath. Saturday is the 7th day not Sunday. Sunday is day 1. Friday is day 6. Saturday is day 7. Look at your calendar. I'm a deist because of the FOLLOWERS. The followers are the one's who have turned me away not the churches. The very people who contradict God. If God is so loving then why to most Christians teach of hatred of other people? Why do people hate gays? Why are they against people being happy? Why? Is it because of this free-will that we go against God? Or did God really want us to be such hateful creatures?
When or where did i say that they are going to hell? I don't believe anywhere. If you want to make out to be someone that hates gay people and think they go to hell then that's your view. I think all sinners go to hell, not just gay people. I would go to hell too if i didn't receive God's grace and salvation. I'm not any better than you or anyone else. I don't at all. One of my good friends is bi and ive known her since 7th grade, i'm 18 now. I can actually talk to her about these kinds of things have a friendly conversation with her. Why is it that you seem to get so angry and such? When have i hated or cursed you? When did i even bring up that church is on a sunday. Yes, i knew that sabbath is on saturday. I've been to temple before. When am i forcing my beliefs on another person? If you haven't looked, this is a christian guild. So if you come in here and aren't a christian, then it's quite the other way around. Your forcing your views on other people. As i said, Christian guild. As i mentioned before to someone else
Quote: Yes, it is open to anyone. But it is a christian guild. A synagogue is also open to anyone, but you wouldn't want a bunch of gamblers and thieves coming in and totally desecrating the place. This guild is supposed to be some sort of safe haven, where people can talk about what they believe in their faith and not feel like someone's going to have to jump down their throat and say "well that's just close minded!" "that's your way of thinking!" yes...it is...hence "christian" guild. And not "everyone come in and debate my religious philosophy" guild. I was taking to the creator of this thread and we had a lovely discussion pming. There is no reason we can't do that, and i'm totally fine. But this is a place where we can find strength in our brothers and sisters in Christ. It's good to be challenged and tested, but that's what the world is for. I hope this makes sense and your not offended. Have i treated anyone with disrespect? I would like to say no. I'm just pointing out what i believe for the doctrines that Christ taught.
I know church doesn't make christianity, that's stupid. Christianity means to "be like Christ" but a lot of people are turned off by it because of what some churches teach or how christians act. I'm sorry for assuming that that is where you got your teaching and dislike for christians, but if you get angry and bitter at me so easily, then are you really any better than they are? Your jumping down my throat for things i haven't even said. I would love to get to know people and try and help them, not condemn them. I know what it's like when the church condemns you and other christians look down on you or think they are "better" than you. I've been there. Christians teach this hatred that you speak of because of the false doctrines that have infiltrated the church. And that is a result of people listening to other people or things, and not the true voice of truth of the holy spirit.
...*sigh*
satan. We always blame God, why not blame the bad guy for once. We never talk about him, but always God. I could get into things that would probably blow you away in a matter of what satan can do and has done. (i'm pentecostal, and so are my parents) People always want to blame everything bad that happens on God. God=giver of Good and perfect things. Satan=giver of bad and evil things. God says in his word that if anyone of you asks for a piece of bread, would a parent give you a stone? Then then would God, being our heavenly father, want to give you bad things? He doesn't want to and that's not Him.
God is good. all the time. Even when we don't understand things or know why they happen. Satan is the father of lies, hate, murder, and the prince of darkness. It is because of free will, that we choose to go against God. I hope that clears at least something up. I don't mean for this to be rude or hateful at all. I'm just trying to explain something. That's all.
If a child was hurt and tears, would a parent abandon it or their back on it because it has "free-will"? |
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:58 pm
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:46 pm
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crista_galli gay marriage is not right, it says in bible that God made the woman to be the prefect company for the man...if God has made a man already, why not do another one?
and it´s said in the bible than a man, must be with a woman, not with a man...
And looking at this, I was hoping for something that did not turn into a flame war and I apologize for making this thread. I knew it wouldn't be pretty because this is Christian guild, and I am not. But, well, I apologize to you all for causing this flame war.
And as a response to a post on Satan... I don't think he makes us do anything much anymore. A point was made where we should take responsibility for our own actions. But to each their own. Again I apologize for causing the flame war. thats not what I was trying for. |
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Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:26 pm
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:09 pm
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:13 pm
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Personally, I think it is wrong. I don't think it should happen. I don't hate gays at all, I just don't like what they are doing. Now, some people might say that the bible says to love your neighbor as you love yourself, or to do unto others as you would want them to do unto you.
And that's exactly what I'm doing.
By not agreeing with gay marriage, I am not taking away a right, and I'm not being discriminatory. I am showing love. Loving someone else isn't letting them do whatever they want, nor is it giving them whatever they want, NOR is it necessarily making someone happy. Love is encouraging one another to follow Christ.
If I was doing something wrong, I would love for my neighbor to come and tell me what I am doing, and help set me back on the right path. I would love for someone to help me when I need it, and to give me a hand if I fall.
That's what I believe the Golden Rule stands for.
People define marriage as two people who love each other very much, but it has never been about that. Marriage is the union between a man and a woman. Bar/Bat Mitzvahs are the celebration of a Jewish boy/girl traveling from childhood to adulthood. Quinceañeras are for young Hispanic girls growing to become women.
Geez, what if I want a Bat Mitzvah? Wait, what do you mean I can't have one? Because I'm not Jewish, nor a female? Hey, that's discriminatory!! You know what I'll do? I'm going to change the definition of Jew so that it includes me, and now anyone can have a Bat Mitzvah.
YAY!! BAT MITZVAHS FOR EVERYONE!!
Now THAT'S equality.
My point is that if we simply look at marriage from a basic view instead of specifics, then yes, it does involve two people that love each other. But then a Quinceañera is for any girl who turns 15. Any 13 year old boy can have a Bar Mitzvah.
No. These things are sacred to the cultures they come from, as is marriage. Now, it isn't always done correctly (i.e. divorce, abuse, etc.), but hey, it's like they say: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
And if it is broken, don't break it some more. xd
Oi, my tangents are inevitable. xp
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:32 pm
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:27 pm
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:35 am
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Ricette The thing with people using the Bible as the end all stay all thing on morality... Why let a book thousands of years old dictate what is moral and what is not? The people back then never could conceive that many things going on around them were not caused by demons and evil, they tried to impose rules for basic survival that now, today, are hokey, obsolete, and useless. Why let the views of tired old ancient men rule our thoughts and society?
Ricette:
Think back to your Yoga argument, that is 5000 years old. If something like that can be trusted, why not writings that have survived countless years of persecution and destruction?
Thing is, if you read what Paul says, then you will find that there WAS homosexuality in his time. It is even documented by non-biblical references. Same with Sodom and Gamora. The people of the town want to rape the male visitors of Lot (the angels) and not Lot's daughters. Homosexuality right there. The people of Biblical times were not as stupid as everyone makes them out to be. they knew things and believed things. In turn, I think WE are the stupid ones! We try to discredit people because of their religion and the Book they read. We deny things that are real.
to gerbil: True. But now there are some other posts after the original revival one and now there are matters to be discussed further.
And now: Proposition 8, completely constitutional, has passed in the state of California. Marriage, is NOT a right, it is a privilege. To be with the person you want is cool. Live with them, get a civil union, whatever (heterosexual couples do it all the time). Just because a couple is not "married" does not mean that they are joined together for forever. There have been many civilizations where they did not marry, but rather lived together and had a family. Look at penguins. They never marry, but they have life partners. and even those life partners have "divorces" in a way. To define the title of marriage as between one man and one woman defines marriage, not love, or civil unions. Lets face it, this proposition also makes it so that polygamy is illegal. |
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:59 pm
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SloanSage And now: Proposition 8, completely constitutional, has passed in the state of California. Marriage, is NOT a right, it is a privilege. To be with the person you want is cool. Live with them, get a civil union, whatever (heterosexual couples do it all the time). Just because a couple is not "married" does not mean that they are joined together for forever. There have been many civilizations where they did not marry, but rather lived together and had a family. Look at penguins. They never marry, but they have life partners. and even those life partners have "divorces" in a way. To define the title of marriage as between one man and one woman defines marriage, not love, or civil unions. Lets face it, this proposition also makes it so that polygamy is illegal.
Amen. |
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:27 am
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:51 pm
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Mike Oxlittle I would rather see a homosexual commit to one partner for the rest of their lives than for a homosexual to act sexually free. If marriage is going to do that, then so be it? Sin is sin, and the last time I checked, sex before marriage is sinful. Erk, I need to figure out what I'm trying to say rather than just blabber on. This is all coming out wrongly. Whoops! |
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:56 pm
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Gerbil_of_the_Vashness Mike Oxlittle I would rather see a homosexual commit to one partner for the rest of their lives than for a homosexual to act sexually free. If marriage is going to do that, then so be it? Sin is sin, and the last time I checked, sex before marriage is sinful. Erk, I need to figure out what I'm trying to say rather than just blabber on. This is all coming out wrongly. Whoops! if heterosexuals have sex before marriage all the time even with marriage as an option, what makes you think gays will be any different? |
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