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 Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:23 am
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:24 pm
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Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:28 am
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Akherontis Erosphoros You prefer Persephone as Kore, huh? There is something wonderfully refreshing about a chaste marriage in a pantheon where even the king (especially the king...) seems to want to stick his pee-pee in anything that moves. She was still called Kore even after her marriage, but the main reason is that Hades and Persephone are expected to be a barren couple, because of that whole 'Fisher King' theme. They rule the land of the dead. It also gives a good reason for Persephone having wanted baby Adonis so badly.
"The king and his land are one", right? I guess the queen's fecundity wouldn't matter so much when it comes to the fertility of the land, and being a daughter of Demeter, I'm guessing the Iron Queen was pretty damn fecund. Goddamn oppressive patriarchal values... *grumble* |
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Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:16 pm
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Erosphoros Akherontis Erosphoros You prefer Persephone as Kore, huh? There is something wonderfully refreshing about a chaste marriage in a pantheon where even the king (especially the king...) seems to want to stick his pee-pee in anything that moves. She was still called Kore even after her marriage, but the main reason is that Hades and Persephone are expected to be a barren couple, because of that whole 'Fisher King' theme. They rule the land of the dead. It also gives a good reason for Persephone having wanted baby Adonis so badly. "The king and his land are one", right? I guess the queen's fecundity wouldn't matter so much when it comes to the fertility of the land, and being a daughter of Demeter, I'm guessing the Iron Queen was pretty damn fecund. Goddamn oppressive patriarchal values... *grumble*
Wouldn't hurt in the slightest to try. I would love to see what powers the new born would have. |
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Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:38 pm
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Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:22 pm
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Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:39 pm
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Akherontis Awesome nerd Dionysus or Bacchus I've never been clear on Erebus/ Erebos. Is he shadow or darkness or what? Then I read about how he surrounds the underworld and I got really confused sweatdrop As far as I know about Erebus, he's the god of darkness and shadows, and basically all darkness personified. He's supposed to be the son of Ouranos and Gaia and created all the shadows in the world. mrgreen The son of Ouranos and Gaia? According to whom? Hesiod's Theogony lists him as emerging from Khaos, together with Nyx. The Orphic fragments say he emerged after Khronos and Ananke. Most accounts are consistent with the former genealogy. I've never read any sources that claim his parents to be Ouranos and Gaia.
Oh yeah! It was Khaos. Dunno where I got Ouranos from confused |
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:01 am
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Aeronn Can I divert this thread a little and ask if people have come across odd alternative names for gods and goddesses? I recently was reading a Chaucer thing where he calls Aphrodite "Cypride" and "Cytherea," and I know it's on her wiki but I'd never seen her actually referenced that way before. He also calls Artemis...*goes and checks*...Lycina? As the goddess of childbirth, I think? Which I didn't think made a whole lot of sense. But then he also says Saturn where I swear it's a Zeus equivalent rather than a Kronos... confused But the poetry for that was so pretty I forgive 'im.
i think i know whats happend im alittle bit of a newbie but have you ever heard ppl use the Roman names of gods and no saturn is not zeus jupitor is zeus saturn is a diffrent god im not sure but i mite be wrong in this but i know abit more of the Roman names about 1 or 2 maybe 5 but they may be refering to Roman words or possibly they dont know anything about gods and therefore should go to hell lol
By Dark Hunter Lycane |
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:32 am
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DarkHunterLycane Aeronn Can I divert this thread a little and ask if people have come across odd alternative names for gods and goddesses? I recently was reading a Chaucer thing where he calls Aphrodite "Cypride" and "Cytherea," and I know it's on her wiki but I'd never seen her actually referenced that way before. He also calls Artemis...*goes and checks*...Lycina? As the goddess of childbirth, I think? Which I didn't think made a whole lot of sense. But then he also says Saturn where I swear it's a Zeus equivalent rather than a Kronos... confused But the poetry for that was so pretty I forgive 'im.i think i know whats happend im alittle bit of a newbie but have you ever heard ppl use the Roman names of gods and no saturn is not zeus jupitor is zeus saturn is a diffrent god im not sure but i mite be wrong in this but i know abit more of the Roman names about 1 or 2 maybe 5 but they may be refering to Roman words or possibly they dont know anything about gods and therefore should go to hell lol By Dark Hunter Lycane
Artemis was indeed associated with childbirth by the Hellenistic era, it being a natural extension of her role as the protectress of girls. The Archaic goddess of childbirth was Eileithyia, a daughter of Hera (who was herself associated with childbirth since she was the goddess of women and motherhood). Because of her popularity, the cult of Artemis sometimes absorbs the roles of lesser deities like Eileithyia and Selene.
You have to keep in mind that gods - especially the Olympian gods - have a wide range of flexible roles which often changed as their religious cults expanded, declined or were assimilated into those of other deities. Greek myths aren't set in stone, as the Greek religion evolved over a period of millennia.
Apollon, for instance, is a god of Healing, although strictly speaking his son Asklepios/Paian is THE god of Healing. Zeus, as king of Olympos, is also a divine judge over gods and mortals, but his daughter Dike was THE personification of Justice. And so on, and so forth.
As to the other issue, Zeus is sometimes called Kronion or Kronos, as it is all too natural for deities to incorporate the names of their predecessors (as per Helios Hyperionides, or Phoibos Apollon, or Pallas Athena).
The Roman equivalent of Zeus was Iuppiter (anglicized as Jupiter) or Deus Pater (meaning the Father of the Gods). Saturnus was the Roman equivalent of Kronos, and was far more prominent in Roman mythology than in Greek. One must remember that the Romans did not merely copy the Hellenistic pantheon with a few name changes; there are many differences. Mars began as an agricultural deity before he incorporated the attributes of Ares (minus the bad reputation). The Roman Diana, unlike the Greek Artemis, was not a virgin goddess. There was also a distinction between Artemis and the Greek moon goddess Selene, but Diana was virtually interchangeable with Luna. There were plenty of other differences, which I won't go into, because this post is already long enough.
Oh, one other thing. I want to clarify that Bacchus was not Dionysos' Roman name. Bacchus derives from one of Dionysos' Greek names, Bakkhos, and his typical Latin name was Liber or Liber Pater (the Free Father). Likewise, Hades was worshipped under a few names, but most commonly Dis or Dis Pater (the Father of Riches). The name Pluto again derives from a Greek epithet, Plouton (the Wealthy One). Whew, I feel better now.
Oh, and Gaia is believed to mean 'Grandmother Earth' not 'Mother Earth' as she IS Zeus' grandmother, and the archetypical 'Great Mother' goddess was Rhea. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:18 am
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DarkHunterLycane Aeronn Can I divert this thread a little and ask if people have come across odd alternative names for gods and goddesses? I recently was reading a Chaucer thing where he calls Aphrodite "Cypride" and "Cytherea," and I know it's on her wiki but I'd never seen her actually referenced that way before. He also calls Artemis...*goes and checks*...Lycina? As the goddess of childbirth, I think? Which I didn't think made a whole lot of sense. But then he also says Saturn where I swear it's a Zeus equivalent rather than a Kronos... confused But the poetry for that was so pretty I forgive 'im.i think i know whats happend im alittle bit of a newbie but have you ever heard ppl use the Roman names of gods and no saturn is not zeus jupitor is zeus saturn is a diffrent god im not sure but i mite be wrong in this but i know abit more of the Roman names about 1 or 2 maybe 5 but they may be refering to Roman words or possibly they dont know anything about gods and therefore should go to hell lol By Dark Hunter Lycane
Hey, there, DH Lycane! Thanks for replying! biggrin And welcome!
Yeah, people do sometimes use Roman/Greek interchangeably, especially in poetry, so it is confusing. Akherontis probably gave the most complete answer. It was a while ago, but I think in this case the names were referring to places that were special to the goddesses, due to myths that happened there.
And this was Chaucer, English poet from the 1300's. He knew his Greek/Roman gods! razz
Can I ask you nicely to please use periods? It would make it easier for me to read. Thankies! 3nodding |
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:22 am
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Aeronn Hey, there, DH Lycane! Thanks for replying! biggrin And welcome! Yeah, people do sometimes use Roman/Greek interchangeably, especially in poetry, so it is confusing. Akherontis probably gave the most complete answer. It was a while ago, but I think in this case the names were referring to places that were special to the goddesses, due to myths that happened there. And this was Chaucer, English poet from the 1300's. He knew his Greek/Roman gods! razz Can I ask you nicely to please use periods? It would make it easier for me to read. Thankies! 3nodding
Haha, yes, punctuation is nice.
Oh, I forgot to mention. Aphrodite was called Kypris and Kytherea because these were the two places that claimed to be nearest to the site of her miraculous birth from the sea-foam (not so miraculous if you were watching the no-no-bits falling into the sea first). Those epithets were actually quite common in Homer, if I recall.
My personal favourite among Aphrodite's titles: Kallipygos. Look it up. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:32 am
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Akherontis Aeronn Hey, there, DH Lycane! Thanks for replying! biggrin And welcome! Yeah, people do sometimes use Roman/Greek interchangeably, especially in poetry, so it is confusing. Akherontis probably gave the most complete answer. It was a while ago, but I think in this case the names were referring to places that were special to the goddesses, due to myths that happened there. And this was Chaucer, English poet from the 1300's. He knew his Greek/Roman gods! razz Can I ask you nicely to please use periods? It would make it easier for me to read. Thankies! 3nodding Haha, yes, punctuation is nice. Oh, I forgot to mention. Aphrodite was called Kypris and Kytherea because these were the two places that claimed to be nearest to the site of her miraculous birth from the sea-foam (not so miraculous if you were watching the no-no-bits falling into the sea first). Those epithets were actually quite common in Homer, if I recall. My personal favourite among Aphrodite's titles: Kallipygos. Look it up.
Aaah, right, that was it! Homer was probably where he got it from.
My version of the Iliad edited most the epithets so it wasn't so confusing for English readers, but I understand there were a ton.
Bahahaha...what a name. I should use that sometoime. ninja
Btw, you jinxed me! We had a couple (really) minor earthquakes the other night. I was like half out my door before I woke up. neutral |
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:37 am
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Aeronn Aaah, right, that was it! Homer was probably where he got it from. My version of the Iliad edited most the epithets so it wasn't so confusing for English readers, but I understand there were a ton. Bahahaha...what a name. I should use that sometoime. ninja Btw, you jinxed me! We had a couple (really) minor earthquakes the other night. I was like half out my door before I woke up. neutral
We're kind of used to frequent earthquakes at the moment.
Yes, there are a ton of epithets in the Iliad. I can't believe there's a version without them, they add so much character to the...erm, characters. Editing Homer is a crime against literature.
Did you know that in some places they worshiped Hera as a virgin goddess? A bit odd, considering she's the goddess of marriage, but apparently she visits a spring called Kanathos once a year, to renew her virginity in some sacred rite which none may observe. I do so hate it when people portray her now as an elderly, shrewish woman. She was generally held to be the most beautiful of all the goddesses, including Aphrodite. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:07 am
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Akherontis We're kind of used to frequent earthquakes at the moment. Yes, there are a ton of epithets in the Iliad. I can't believe there's a version without them, they add so much character to the...erm, characters. Editing Homer is a crime against literature. Did you know that in some places they worshiped Hera as a virgin goddess? A bit odd, considering she's the goddess of marriage, but apparently she visits a spring called Kanathos once a year, to renew her virginity in some sacred rite which none may observe. I do so hate it when people portray her now as an elderly, shrewish woman. She was generally held to be the most beautiful of all the goddesses, including Aphrodite.
Yeah....Hope that calms down for you. sad
Hmmmm, well, it was just the Fagles version, there were epithetic descriptions. But reading Chaucer was more complicated because he actually changed the names up, so those were edited by R.F.
I think the book would be like half the size without them!
Virginity...renewal ceremony? *mind boggles*
Kinda makes sense if you see marriage as being the marriage day, though.
"Shrewish" makes a bit of sense, "elderly" no more than Hades being evil. Let's blame Paris, everyone else did. smile |
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:11 am
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Aeronn Akherontis We're kind of used to frequent earthquakes at the moment. Yes, there are a ton of epithets in the Iliad. I can't believe there's a version without them, they add so much character to the...erm, characters. Editing Homer is a crime against literature. Did you know that in some places they worshiped Hera as a virgin goddess? A bit odd, considering she's the goddess of marriage, but apparently she visits a spring called Kanathos once a year, to renew her virginity in some sacred rite which none may observe. I do so hate it when people portray her now as an elderly, shrewish woman. She was generally held to be the most beautiful of all the goddesses, including Aphrodite. Yeah....Hope that calms down for you. sad Hmmmm, well, it was just the Fagles version, there were epithetic descriptions. But reading Chaucer was more complicated because he actually changed the names up, so those were edited by R.F. I think the book would be like half the size without them! Virginity.. .renewal ceremony? *mind boggles* Kinda makes sense if you see marriage as being the marriage day, though. "Shrewish" makes a bit of sense, "elderly" no more than Hades being evil. Let's blame Paris, everyone else did. smile
Paris got what was coming to him, eventually. Although unfortunately, so did all of Priam's other sons (the man had 100 children!), who were mostly blameless.
Yes, virginity renewal. The mind does boggle. And yes, the marriage day and its consecration were important to Hera, although the actual god of the marriage ceremony was Hymenaios, one of the Erotes. |
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