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Thanks! Nine for me, one for tzedakah.
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Divash
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:40 pm


The word tzniut means modesty. It is a very high value in Judaism, and there's a lot that gets said about it. Different Jewish communities have slight differences in standards, but all have some standard, whether they openly acknowledge it and discuss it as a point of halachah, or simply raise their eyebrows at someone dressing in a way that causes them to stand out socially.

A tzanuah (modest) person is not defined solely by clothing. Nevertheless, clothing is an outward sign of an inward attitude. Here are the very basics of the halachot (Jewish laws) on modesty.

Keep in mind that no one is saying, "You must follow these laws," and the Tzniut Police aren't going to hunt you down and lock you up if you don't follow them. My purposes in posting about these laws are (1) to share the information, in case anyone's interested, and (2) to promote discussion about a Jewish topic of conversation. It won't hurt my 'feelers' if you don't suddenly start dressing like Chareidim or Chassidim. wink
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:16 pm


Believe it or not, I occasionally look pretty orthodox in how I dress. Tophat + all black + trench coat. In general, though your link talks about girls, I dress fairly modestly. Long pants, long sleeved shirts or short sleeves with a jacket, some form of headwear. I occasionally wear fingerless gloves as well, though this gets in the way of my typing.

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kingpinsqeezels

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:17 pm


The topic of modesty is almost always directed towards women. Really I'd like to know how many of you young men are modest, or at least close to it.

As for the ladies, do you feel like you accomplish something when you go out on a hot day dressed nice and conservative but see all the other girls in their skimpy clothes? Do you feel more confident or do you feel like your hiding something?

Also, does anyone know where I can get some extremely light weight long sleeve shirts for summer? I bought most of mine in fall, so they're way too thick.
(I'm no fashionista, so I have no idea what constitutes a breezy fabric.)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:23 pm


For lightweight stuff, the Muslim websites [X] usually have some awesome things, and most of 'em look nice too.

As for modesty for us boys, as I mentioned, I'm modest to the point of hiding my eyes from people I don't know. And yes, you asked girls about the skimpy thing, but I'm going to answer from a male end. No, I don't feel like I'm hiding anything when I see guys running around shirtless, or when I see girls running around with mini skirts (any skirt I wear is either down to my shins, or I wear capris under it, plus thigh highs that obscure all parts of my legs that would be otherwise visible). Not to insult anyone who does dress like that, but going modestly always makes me feel better, in that I know I don't need to leverage my body to get people's affections or attention. Plus, it's great being "cool jacket guy".

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LordNeuf
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:47 am


Modesty is a strange subject for me.

As my modesty has withered due to advanced atrophy between 1996 and 2004. Surprisingly the concept of personal shame is making a remarkable recovery since it was pronounced dead in 1991.

However I have come to one conclusion

Some elements of the human body are pleasing to look at, and if a person wants to flaunt it, it's their privilege.

However I don't have any of visually pleasing elements, so I tend to cover up and don't flaunt any natural features, not from shame, but as respect to others nearby. I don't need to run naked and free as nature intended, I'd scare the crap out of everyone around me.

If someone wishes to show their modesty above their beauty. More power to them, I think it would be better for a person.

But I don't think people should be ashamed of their bodies.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:06 am


A good many websites or books on modesty are written with women in mind, but the laws are actually the same for both sexes, with only one exception.

1. Covered heads. Men are required to do this from the age of three; women are only required to do it when married.

2. Covered arms. Men and women are both required to cover the arms above and including the elbow.

3. Covered legs. Men and women are both required to cover the legs above and including the knee.

4. Covered chest. Men and women are required to cover their chests, beginning at the collarbone. The neck can be uncovered. For men, they can wear short sleeves or even tank tops, if they are working in a messy environment, such as on a fishing boat, in which it is considered normal for men to go shirtless (and if there are no women present).

5. Covered midriff. The middle sections of the body are not to be exposed.

6. Women only: The place where the legs join the body is to be covered and disguised. This is where Orthodox women get the "no trousers" rule, but actually trousers are fine, as long as there's a knee-length skirt or dress over them, such as in a salwar kameez (look it up on Google yourself). And actually, men should disguise this part of the body, too, by wearing trousers that aren't tight.

Again, I am not saying "Go out and change your wardrobe and your identity." I'm only presenting the laws; it's up to you whether, and how, you want to observe them.

For lightweight clothing, definitely try an Islamic website. http://www.shukronline.com is about to bring out their springtime sales, and they always have super-comfortable clothing. Cotton, rayon, and linen are extremely breathable fabrics (though linen wrinkles a LOT). Their skirts are all long, but very comfortable; I find that wearing them in the summertime channels a nice breeze up my legs. But if you want shorter ones, go for knee-length. Their shirts are great too. Oh, and their men's clothing is awesome. Very handsome, loose, comfortable, breathable, and yes, fashionable.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:27 am


About the long skirts; keep in mind that there's a reason people in the desert wear long clothing. Often times, covering the body from the sun is better than keeping it exposed. The flowing and lightweight fabric allows a breeze to flow over the body, and keeps it cooler than if you just ran around with nothing on. It also helps to keep you hydrated, because the 'breeze' it creates helps your body utilize sweat more efficiently, and thus you don't lose as much moisture. The reasons to wear a longer skirt during the summer are many.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:10 pm


I dress rather conservatively in general (extremely so when compared to other females at my school), but at my current location, I don't think I can stop wearing shorts and the occasional short sleeve shirt. (For example, it was about 100 F for a month here, not including humidity. Missouri's humidity= insane)

But, that doesn't mean I don't dress as modestly as I can. I'm actually rather frustrated since the uniform for my school's track team is extremely revealing, so I've boycotted wearing their skimpy shorts and go to the guy's clothing section to get ones that are actually a decent length.

As to King's question, I'm a naturally self-conscious person, so I tend not to wear anything revealing, and I often have difficulty staring people in the face. Especially after a guy at my school wouldn't stop staring at my legs and hitting on me, I've basically never worn shorts in public except when track requires it. Wearing conservative things doesn't make me feel more confident, but I think I'd be even more uncomfortable flashing every guy around me or wearing really skimpy things.

darkphoenix1247
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:38 pm


darkphoenix1247
I dress rather conservatively in general (extremely so when compared to other females at my school), but at my current location, I don't think I can stop wearing shorts and the occasional short sleeve shirt. (For example, it was about 100 F for a month here, not including humidity. Missouri's humidity= insane)


=P See my above post.

Though, the humidity doesn't help. I've been experimenting with different styles when I travel down south (Florida and Virginia). Keeping the sun from directly hitting your skin is extremely nice.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:36 pm


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darkphoenix1247
I dress rather conservatively in general (extremely so when compared to other females at my school), but at my current location, I don't think I can stop wearing shorts and the occasional short sleeve shirt. (For example, it was about 100 F for a month here, not including humidity. Missouri's humidity= insane)


=P See my above post.

Though, the humidity doesn't help. I've been experimenting with different styles when I travel down south (Florida and Virginia). Keeping the sun from directly hitting your skin is extremely nice.

Thank you very much for the tip, but it's actually not the sun so much as humidity here; we have really weird weather. (As demonstrated by the 80 degree weather last week, snow 2 days ago, and thunderstorm right now. There's supposed to be hail tomorrow, too.) I hate Midwest weather. xp

darkphoenix1247
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:12 pm


If you wear something light and airy, it should help with the humidity.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:49 pm


Missouri does have some freaky weather. I remember being there in December a couple years ago and it went from warm enough to go outside without a coat to a full fledged ice storm in a matter of a day. Very strange weather, indeed...

I haven't started wearing exclusively tsnius clothing yet. I am currently looking into investing some more money in skirts and light longsleeve shirts that can be worn under my existing shirts so I don't have to toss my wardrobe and start over. However, since I have a slight aversion to shopping combined with a loss of alot of weight within the past year (Currently I've lost around 50+lbs), I am a bit leary to buy too many new outfits...but I am slowly buying tops here and there when I get time. It also helps me look more professional than the jeans/t-shirt look, and I tend to feel a bit more feminine in a skirt.

The tzinius lifestyle is something I am striving for. Humility, not just in clothing but in general attitude, is really important to have in order to appreciate G-d's impact on everything. Otherwise, one may end up thinking they are in control of everything around them. I'm not necessarily saying that one cannot have a modest attitude without being modestly dressed, I'm just suggesting that some concious effort to look modest may help someone to be a bit more concious of actually being modest. I'm working at it very slowly, and it will probably take a while to change old habits, but it will be worth it to me at least spiritually in the end.

I tend to type far too much when I am really supposed to be studying. sweatdrop

ChiJadey


darkphoenix1247
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:09 pm


ChiJadey
Missouri does have some freaky weather. I remember being there in December a couple years ago and it went from warm enough to go outside without a coat to a full fledged ice storm in a matter of a day. Very strange weather, indeed...

Heh; I remember something like that this winter, actually.

Congratulations on your weight loss! I agree with a lot of what you said, but I guess I've never really been a fan of skirts. (It was always frustrating to me not to be able to run in clothing) One of these days I'll actually go shopping to see if I can find one I like, though.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:43 pm


I think it happened 2 or 3 winters ago, I don't really remember. I just know I was in KC and a sheet of ice fell from the sky. I am originally from Buffalo, NY so I am used to snow, but I am not used to everything becoming just coated in thick ice...

Thanks! I'm still hoping to lose another 10-20lbs or so, but I feel so much healthier and I'm so happy I lost so much. I actually haven't been at this weight that I am currently at since I was 10 or so. I maxed out this summer at about 245-250lbs or so, and right now I am at around 190, perhaps a bit more.

Actually, going skirt shopping at normal stores is sort of frustrating. I was hoping to find a long skirt the other day, but most stores don't sell skirts, and if they do they only barely cover the person's behind...I currently have two plain black skirts and one black skirt with some cool tassles. I want a really comfy long jean skirt or at least something non-black, but I really don't want to pay the sort of prices online for a skirt. I will just keep my eyes peeled for now and deal with my three skirts.

ChiJadey


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:55 pm


ChiJadey
Actually, going skirt shopping at normal stores is sort of frustrating. I was hoping to find a long skirt the other day, but most stores don't sell skirts, and if they do they only barely cover the person's behind...I currently have two plain black skirts and one black skirt with some cool tassles. I want a really comfy long jean skirt or at least something non-black, but I really don't want to pay the sort of prices online for a skirt. I will just keep my eyes peeled for now and deal with my three skirts.


I know your pain in skirt shopping. I only have two skirts at the moment, one a mini (worn with capris) the other a shin length skirt. I was lucky I even found the longer skirt. Dresses aren't meant for a boy's body, so I dislike wearing them (ever) and so I'm stuck with skirts.
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